Top 5 Jazz Fusion

[Shadow]

He doesn't know.

I know what it's not, and it's not:

Jeff Beck
Brand X
Sloche
Forgas Band Phenomena
Dixie Dregs
Santana
Chicago
Gary Burton

[NogbadTheBad]

Ah master Ed tell us "what is prog?"

Seeing as you noted two bands I listed I defer to Progarchives and RYM that list Sloche, Brand X & Forgas as Jazz Rock Fusion.

[Shadow]

Ah master Ed tell us "what is prog?"

Seeing as you noted two bands I listed I defer to Progarchives and RYM that list Sloche, Brand X & Forgas as Jazz Rock Fusion.

But that's not what the original poster asked for.

[NogbadTheBad]

But that's not what the original poster asked for.

That's what I listed, my top 5 Jazz Fusion albums. Or you differentiating Jazz Fusion from Jazz Rock Fusion? That's what the fusion is of, jazz & rock.

[nosebone]

Like Prog, fusion has many sub genre's also;

jazz-rock fusion
rock-jazz fusion
funk fusion
brass rock fusion
avant garde fusion
symphonic fusion
shred fusion
ethno fusion

....and I'm sure I'm leaving some off .

Also, many bands/artists can cover a few sub genres.

[Dana5140]

MO: Birds of Fire
RTF: Hymn of the Seventh Galaxy
WR: Black Market
MD: Bitches Brew
And,
Passport: Infinity Machine

[NogbadTheBad]

Come on Ed, what are your 5? So we can tell the difference.

[walt]

FYI,since i listed a Gary Burton recording in my list,(Duster),anyone who reads a few reviews of Duster will see the dreaded "f" word(fusion) used to describe this record in a couple of cases.

For whatever that's worth.

Carry on.Smoke 'em if ya got 'em.

[nosebone]

Ed likes Japanese shred fusion.

[Shadow]

Ed likes Japanese shred fusion.

We have comp seats for the Kazumi Watanabe show at 10 tonight at Blues Alley. I just don't feel like riding 90 minutes each way without traffic and roadwork on a Sunday night. Wanted to go to the 8 pm show, but it was sold out.

[Trane]

I know what it's not, and it's not:

Jeff Beck
Brand X
Sloche
Forgas Band Phenomena
Dixie Dregs
Santana
Chicago
Gary Burton

I can understand your wondering about Santana (the band), but Caranvanserai and its little brother are JR/F... And Carlos' solo album (collabs included are JR/F as well)


This said, if you want jazzier artistes that went fusion (and not bon my previous list):

13 Coltrane, Alice Ptah, the El Daoud
13 Davis, Miles Bitches Brew USA 1970
13 Tyner, McCoy Sahara USA 1972
12 Byrd, Donald Ethiopian Knights USA 1971
12 Coryell, Larry Barefoot Boy USA 197
12 Mombasa African Rhythms & Blues 2 Ken 1976
12 Smith, Lonnie Liston / Cosmic Echoes Astral Travelling USA 1973
12 Szabo, Gabor Macho Hun 1975
.... etc...

[Shadow]

FYI,since i listed a Gary Burton recording in my list,(Duster),anyone who reads a few reviews of Duster will see the dreaded "f" word(fusion) used to describe this record in a couple of cases..

You go into a record store today and ask to see the fusion section, you'll be sifting through club dance music.

[Shadow]

13 Tyner, McCoy Sahara USA 1972

If I was gonna pick a Tyner album, I would have picked Fly With The Wind

[Poisoned Youth]

Like Prog, fusion has many sub genre's also;

I really hate these kinds of discussions because there is no right answer, except the one everyone thinks is right in their own minds. FWIW my take is that, after nearly 50 years of music, jazz-rock music should be a considered its own musical construct/genre, not as a sub of any other music. In the same way people don't refer to rock as blues anymore.

When I was doing my radio show, I devoted many shows to the concept of jazz-rock and would play things that were highly composed like Forgas to classics like Mahavishnu to stuff like Amalgam. The point behind the show was not to box music in, but to use an axis (in this case jazz and rock) to describe it. This way, people who had an affinity toward one style of jazz-rock could listen to a variety of styles in the same program.

Here was an example playlist:

Herbie Hancock Sleeping Giant (Crossings) 1971 USA
Marty Fogel Never Said Goodbye (Many Bobbing Heads, At Last) 1989 USA
Marty Fogel Guinea (Many Bobbing Heads, At Last) 1989 USA
Erik Truffaz Alex Gopher (Reviste) 2001 France
Erik Truffaz Pierre Audetat (Reviste) 2001 France
Abus Dangereux Abus’ Blues/Aye Shingao (Happy French Band) France
Nels Cline Suspended Head (Instrumentals) 2002 USA
Vertu Danse of the Harlequin (Vertu) 1999 USA
Return To Forever Song To The Pharaoh King (Where Have I Known You Before) 1974 USA
Gary Bartz Don’t Fight That Feeling (I've Known Rivers and Other Bodies) 1973 USA
DFA Escher (live) (Work in Progress – Live) 2001 Italy
Forgas Band Phenomena Extra-Lucide (Extra-Lucide) 1999 France
Forgas Band Phenomena Annie Reglisse (Extra-Lucide) 1999 France
Don Cherry Karmapa Chenno (Hear And Now) 1977 USA
Helmet of Gnats (full album) (Helmet of Gnats) 2004 USA

[Trane]

If I was gonna pick a Tyner album, I would have picked Fly With The Wind

it's also an amazing album, I agree

So are Assante, Expabnsions and Song For My Lady

[Yanks2014]

Knowing you, I'd direct you more towards the Head Hunters (HH, Thrust, Flood Man-child) era rather than his Mwandishi (Crossing, Sextant) era, which can be veering towards the dissonant

From personal experience FPB is better live than in studio.

I don't mind some dissonance in my jazz actually. Same with prog, as my taste isn't quite as safe as some would suggest.

[Progatron]

Extremely difficult to choose, I hate having to leave so many out.

Return To Forever - Returns
Miles Davis - Bitches Brew
Mahavishnu Orchestra - Between Nothingness And Eternity
Jean Luc Ponty - Enigmatic Ocean
Al Di Meola - Land Of The Midnight Sun

[Yanks2014]

I know what it's not, and it's not:

Jeff Beck
Brand X
Sloche
Forgas Band Phenomena
Dixie Dregs
Santana
Chicago
Gary Burton

Looking at your list, Jeff Beck clearly made fusion albums in the mid 70's, as I don't know how else to describe "Wired" and "Blow By Blow". Brand X? Some prog and symphonic elements, but definitely fusion. The Dixie Dregs are not a pure fusion band, but there is no doubt it's a big element of their sound. Forgas sounded rather fusiony to me, but I only saw them once, my memory of them is a little foggy. Sure, Chicago is not fusion at all, I do hear a difference between jazz rock and fusion, I will agree with you there. Santana, I know he did an album with John McLaughlin, and I;m not sure that is even fusion. No, he should be mentioned as a fusion artist. Gary Burton, didn't he do some fusiony things with Chick Corea, or were those straight jazz?

[nosebone]

I really hate these kinds of discussions because there is no right answer, except the one everyone thinks is right in their own minds. FWIW my take is that, after nearly 50 years of music, jazz-rock music should be a considered its own musical construct/genre, not as a sub of any other music. In the same way people don't refer to rock as blues anymore.

Hey Cozy, I'm with ya all the way, but obviously a lot of folks need to and like to compartmentalize what they're listening to.

For instance , Dick might call Blood, Sweat & Tears jazz-rock while Harry would call it pop because it's a catchy song that was on the charts.

[Bake 1]

I guess musical categories provide convenience sometimes...but they can be just plain arbitrary and silly...and what gets defined as Jazz Fusion can vary a lot. If any record containing what are generally seen as jazz elements mixes things up w/ something else can be counted... albums by X-Legged Sally, Tipographica, Il Berlione, Brown vs. Brown, and Dr. Nerve might be high on the list, (top 5 requires too much amputation). If we're limited to stuff that specifically got referred to as fusion shortly after the term emerged... maybe the 1st Fermata, Mahavishnu / Inner Mounting Flame, Perigeo / Genalogia, Miles Davis / Agharta and Kraan / Live could get in near the top.

[Reginod]

It's so much easier to treat terms like "jazz-fusion" as descriptors or adjectives, rather than insisting that they are some kind of definable "genre" . . . . . . at any rate a lot of great things have been mentioned here to which I would like to add Tomasz Stanko's Purple Sun.

[Trane]

Hey Cozy, I'm with ya all the way, but obviously a lot of folks need to and like to compartmentalize what they're listening to.

For instance , Dick might call Blood, Sweat & Tears jazz-rock while Harry would call it pop because it's a catchy song that was on the charts.

Yeah, the few subgenre mentionned baffle me a bit...

But I would agree that BS&T, Chicago, Dreams, etc.... are not even jazz rock.... just brass rock (or horn rock, as I'ver been aware some branded that pigeonhole as well)

Looking at your list, Jeff Beck clearly made fusion albums in the mid 70's, as I don't know how else to describe "Wired" and "Blow By Blow". Brand X? Some prog and symphonic elements, but definitely fusion. The Dixie Dregs are not a pure fusion band, but there is no doubt it's a big element of their sound. Forgas sounded rather fusiony to me, but I only saw them once, my memory of them is a little foggy. Sure, Chicago is not fusion at all, I do hear a difference between jazz rock and fusion, I will agree with you there. Santana, I know he did an album with John McLaughlin, and I;m not sure that is even fusion. No, he should be mentioned as a fusion artist. Gary Burton, didn't he do some fusiony things with Chick Corea, or were those straight jazz?

Actually it will all depend about how you heard those labels in the first case, therefore affecting your future (and present) perception...
To me, "jazz-rock" was a precurssor name to "fusion"... never heard of the rock-jazz pure invention thingie until recently, though
The way I heard it in the mid-70's in central Canada, Bitches Brew was called jazz-rock, not fusion... I'd say that the first albums that were branded fusion were Black Market and Heavy Weather (5 or 6 years after BB was released)

[rapidfirerob]

Tony Williams- Believe It
Billy Cobham- Spectrum
Mahavishnu Orchestra- Inner Mounting Flame
Jean Luc-Ponty- Enigmatic Ocean
Weather Report- Heavy Weather
RTF- Romantic Warrior
Brand X- Unorthodox Behaviour
Miles Davis- In A Silent Way

There's no way to do five. I'll just stop here.

[Poisoned Youth]

It's so much easier to treat terms like "jazz-fusion" as descriptors or adjectives, rather than insisting that they are some kind of definable "genre"

That's my take as well. People also have a tendency to take it the descriptors or genre tags literally. Need look no further than the word "progressive" for that.


Anyway, I have tried to come up with a top 5. That's extremely difficult! If I only went one per artist:

No particular order:

Embryo - Rocksession
Herbie Hancock - Sextant
Soft Machine - Fourth
Miles Davis - Bitches Brew
One Shot - Ewaz Vader

[Facelift]

Looking at your list, Jeff Beck clearly made fusion albums in the mid 70's, as I don't know how else to describe "Wired" and "Blow By Blow". Brand X? Some prog and symphonic elements, but definitely fusion. The Dixie Dregs are not a pure fusion band, but there is no doubt it's a big element of their sound. Forgas sounded rather fusiony to me, but I only saw them once, my memory of them is a little foggy. Sure, Chicago is not fusion at all, I do hear a difference between jazz rock and fusion, I will agree with you there. Santana, I know he did an album with John McLaughlin, and I;m not sure that is even fusion. No, he should be mentioned as a fusion artist. Gary Burton, didn't he do some fusiony things with Chick Corea, or were those straight jazz?

I don't think Chicago is. As for some of the others, they have catalogs that might include some jazz fusion - like Gary Burton and Santana - but whose overall body of work isn't fusion. Gary Burton's Throb (1969), for example, is one of the earlier fusion experiments. His 1967 album, Duster, is considered possibly the very first fusion album. Santana's Caravanserai is fusion. Brand X? When they first came out, they were referred to as Mahavishnu clones.

I would agree that somewhere along the line "fusion" became a catch-all for instrumental prog with a certain degree of wankery. Even if I like some of this music, I would have to say that the jazz credentials are pretty weak.