In the Snowbound thread i made a comment that Genesis finally killed off prog by deserting their genre & making a dodgy pop album i.e. ATTWT. Obviously this riled the fan boys but to me when a prog band makes a pure pop album then they themselves distance themselves from the genre. Now many prog bands made the occasional song aimed at the commercial market but where Genesis the first to make a full albums worth? There's nothing on ATTWT that is even remotely prog to me!
Last edited by Rufus; 02-16-2014 at 08:31 AM.
Yup; the eerie lone string synth intro, the 5/4 meter, the frantic drum fills, and menacing synth solo of
"Down And Out" just ***SCREEEEEEAAAAAAMMM*** pure pop pablum.
People would probably say bands like Supertramp and Saga had gone more pop than ATTWT was at the time. ATTWT is more prog to me than to you though. How many hits did it have?
If one pop song on an album signals the end of prog greatness, then Genesis went pop long before Peter left the group. ATTWT is full of prog, and has some pop moments like Genesis ALWAYS had. You never heard More Fool Me, Ripples, Your Own Special Way, For Absent Friends, Carpet Crawlers, Time Table, or maybe THE FIRST ALBUM ALL THE WAY THROUGH?
By the same turn, they were putting out great prog epics as late as 84. I reject your premise completely.
DittoOriginally Posted by jupiter0rjapan
The entire first side of Tales from Topographic Oceans is pop, according to Jon Anderson!
Hello, the Wall.
Complete with a hit single with a disco beat!
I agree, one song isn't enough. Otherwise, why wouldn't "Roundabout" be considered pop? It was even cut down for Top 40 airplay. Or how about "A Time and a Word"?
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Genesis first went "pop" on The silent sun, In hiding, The wilderness etc.
Ambrosia went pop long before Genesis.
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I think the problem with ATTWT, and what shows it to be transitional, is that they don't really seem to know how to make a more commercial record. The fadeouts are a perfect example (and oddly mirror the same issue in CAS) of longer ideas cut short to make them seem more commercial. For all that's been written about who "ruined" Genesis, the truth is that the blame can be put on the record company. There was obviously an ultimatum given to the band to go in a more commercial direction.
It was Mike "our songs were too busy" Rutherford. More Fool Me => Ripples => Your Own Special Way => FYFM ====> M+M.
[There's nothing on ATTWT that is even remotely prog to me! ]
Well in that case I wonder if you consider the first two without PG(wind and trick)to be full prog. For me, ATTWT is just a more condensed shorter song version of those two. Genesis' real pop phase started with Duke(some of the songs from it anyway and even more so after that).
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Also Kayak.
Do not suffer through the game of chance that plays....always doors to lock away your dreams (To Be Over)
This is the truth. They were a pop band in the first place, not the other way around. Earlier than those songs you mention, in fact.
90% of ATTWT is far 'proggier' than anything in their first two years of existence. But, selective memory 'n all that....
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OK, I'll be the first, the thread title would be a little better if the correct "were" was used. I know, this coming from the person who once typed "cample" in the subject line.
Funny though, I would never, ever think of ATTWT as a pop album at all. One pop song, a couple songs that maybe could be described as mainstream rock -I think it's a stretch, and a bunch of prog songs.
I'm getting tired of discussions like these and others that occassionally pop up at PE. From my opinion, being born in 1970, there was indeed a phase in popular music where many musicians either lenghtend (70s) or shortened (80s) their compositions. But many of the longer and shorter compositions still contain verses, chorussen, bridges, solos. Depending on the spirit of the day, artists were or weren't allowed (by public opinion, labels or fellow musicians) to tumble those around.
As for Genesis, I'm very fond of ATTWT (and Duke, for that matter). I also very much like Selling England, but the longest track on that, Battle of Epping Forest, is certainly not their best long track. I'd rather hear Scenes From A Night Dream, if not only for the fact that it ends sooner.
So, short or long, commercial or non-commercial, experimental or just pure popmusic. If it's good, it's good and if it's bad, it's bad.
I think the punters worry far more about labels than the artists do. This just seems like an excuse to bash ATTWT.
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Where did Genesis finally go pop? In England I suppose...
Eagles may soar, but weasels don't get sucked into jet engines.
Sorry, you can call it fanboy opinion, but your argument above is way off of the mark in my opinion. Nothing on ATTWT that is remotely prog?! Come on, that is just not accurate. If you think ATTWT is a pop album, then you haven't heard many pop albums. I tend not to dive into some of the more (in my opinion) outlandish comments on here, but this one warranted a response. Also, the idea of disregarding the people who disagree with your opinion as "fanboys" is a cop out. ( it usually is when used on PE) It's as if to insinuate that their opinion is irrelevant because it is blinded or misguided by their fandom. Sorry, but that's not the case this time. They may be fanboys, in your opinion, but they are right on this one. Yes, there are commercial songs on the album. Yes, the songs are shorter, but there is plenty of prog on ATTWT. If you don't hear it, then perhaps you are on the wrong forum. I think every Genesis album, even the later ones, have prog moments on them, but ATTWT is no way a full albums worth of songs aimed at the "commercial market". The idea that songs like "Down and Out", "Undertow". "Burning Rope", "Deep in the Motherlode","Snowbound" and "The Lady Lies" are non prog pop songs is just parody. Sorry for the bluntness and everyone is entitled to their opinion, but your prog ears are failing you on this one.
Last edited by Patelena396; 02-16-2014 at 02:10 PM.
What!
"The White Zone is for loading and unloading only. If you got to load or unload go to the White Zone!"
Consider the source.
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Anekdoten
In Hilvarenbeek, I guess.
The opinions of Grateful Dead "fanboys" can't really be trusted as regards the bands' music.
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