30 Minutes With … Rick Wakeman: 'Punk was a revolution ... things had to change'

[Jeremy Bender]

In my opinion the likes of Elvis Costello, Joe Jackson and Rockpile could have come to prominence without punk having existed.

EC and JJ were known as "New Wave", a catch all for a bunch of bands who weren't full-on Sex Pistols-type punks, could play and write and sing well but weren't doing 28 minute songs either. The first EC albums are incredible, what great songwriting. Peter Giles auditioned for The Attractions but didn't make the cut.

The terrific band Bad Religion released a full-on punk album as their debut, but made a semi-prog second album --OMG! it had the dreaded synthesizers on it!-- that was totally out of left field. They have completely disowned the album, it was long out of print until they released a vinyl version as part of the 30 Years Of Bad Religion LP box set.

Several of the biggest punks I knew were into prog, they just started punk bands because they couldn't really play

I played in bands here in Los Angeles from about 1975 - 1985 as a bass player, a bunch of people I know joined punk/New Wave bands in the late 70's/early 80's because they were good players but they were tired of struggling to write overly complicated music, they were tired of having to practice 6 hours a day just to keep up their chops.

[bRETT]

Yup, I"ve done a lot of research (seen every old MM & NME) on that stuff and you're pretty spot on. That's why Malcolm McLaren was appalled / shocked when Johnny Rotten did his (now legendary) Capitol Radio interview in '77 where he was asked to bring and play his fave records and revealed himself to be a major VdGG/Hammill, Capt Beefheart, Can, Tim Buckley fan. From the reports, McLaren just about shit himself.

But none of those artists were part of any anti-prog backlash. Hammill, Beefheart, Can etc were all respected in the press as more artful bands, and John Peel played them all the time. The backlash mainly applied to Yes, ELP, Tull and Genesis.

But of course Melody Maker still had Chris Welch who championed all of the above (For instance, he wrote an unqualified rave on "Tormato"). MM's perspective was overall more traditional and less punk-friendly than NME.

[Homburg]

Melody Maker still had Chris Welch who championed all of the above (For instance, he wrote an unqualified rave on "Tormato"). MM's perspective was overall more traditional and less punk-friendly than NME.

I read Melody Maker at the time. Welch definitely was a big prog supporter, but increasingly he became an isolated voice, until he departed in 1979. Melody Maker was typical in its response to new wave (which at the time usually meant a movement that included punk, rather than milder punk only) in that the trendiest reviewers converted to punk in '77, but the mag still gave space to other styles in the late 70s. It wasn't until 1981 that a feature on an 'old wave' act became rare. But in the 70s I recall some damning reviews of acts who really could have benefitted from good reviews, by young writers eager to prove their hip credentials by slagging off prog bands. For instance, I recall an MM review of an Enid gig like this, at a time when The Enid's relationship with their record company was precarious. It was hit and miss whether an album/gig by an old wave act would be reviewed by a writer who respected them and gave them a chance or whether it would go to some 'I'll go to town being rude about these boring old fart hippies' reviewer. It made more of a difference to the less commercially successful prog acts than it did to the supergroups.

I agree that Rotten did a good thing, and displayed good taste, in his Capital Radio Show, but how much more influentiual it would have been if he'd played Floyd and Tull, whom he subsequently admitted to liking.

[Homburg]

Yup, I"ve done a lot of research (seen every old MM & NME) on that stuff and you're pretty spot on. That's why Malcolm McLaren was appalled / shocked when Johnny Rotten did his (now legendary) Capitol Radio interview in '77 where he was asked to bring and play his fave records and revealed himself to be a major VdGG/Hammill, Capt Beefheart, Can, Tim Buckley fan. From the reports, McLaren just about shit himself.

McLaren had a particular personal antipathy to hippies, as well as being a cunning media manipulator.

Thanks for supporting my comment. Are you doing a particular reseach project?

[Bucka001]

McLaren had a particular personal antipathy to hippies, as well as being a cunning media manipulator.

Thanks for supporting my comment. Are you doing a particular reseach project?

It didn't start out as research. In college, mid-late 80s, I discovered the microfilm room of the library and immersed myself (when I could) in old MM's and other stuff. Then I discovered the library in Chicago had even more great stuff on microfilm (NME, Frendz, etc) and I could easily lose myself in there for hours. It was just for fun, a little bit of a time travel trip on various afternoons. Photocopied hundreds of great articles doing that (with the main emphasis 99% on VdGG, my all time fave). But years later, I had the opportunity to write a book on the band, which I did. I became friends with them and co-wrote "Van der Graaf Generator - The Book" and suddenly all those hours of frivolous microfilm time travel / photocopying paid dividends. I quoted a lot of that stuff and pretty much had a feel for the era (Hugh Banton once said to me, "Are you sure you weren't there?" Of course, in '71 I was six years old and living in a suburb of Chicago ;-) ). BTW, I ended up in hours and hours of conversation with the VdGG guys over 2 1/2 years (all on cassette!) and have quite the collection of media quotes from the last several years (which is how I know that there was as much respect for the punk approach as the prog approach [don't get Peter started on 'prog']).

[Homburg]

It didn't start out as research. In college, mid-late 80s, I discovered the microfilm room of the library and immersed myself (when I could) in old MM's and other stuff. Then I discovered the library in Chicago had even more great stuff on microfilm (NME, Frendz, etc) and I could easily lose myself in there for hours. It was just for fun, a little bit of a time travel trip on various afternoons. Photocopied hundreds of great articles doing that (with the main emphasis 99% on VdGG, my all time fave). But years later, I had the opportunity to write a book on the band, which I did. I became friends with them and co-wrote "Van der Graaf Generator - The Book" and suddenly all those hours of frivolous microfilm time travel / photocopying paid dividends. I quoted a lot of that stuff and pretty much had a feel for the era (Hugh Banton once said to me, "Are you sure you weren't there?" Of course, in '71 I was six years old and living in a suburb of Chicago ;-) ). BTW, I ended up in hours and hours of conversation with the VdGG guys over 2 1/2 years (all on cassette!) and have quite the collection of media quotes from the last several years (which is how I know that there was as much respect for the punk approach as the prog approach [don't get Peter started on 'prog']).

I also have found such research fascinating.

I've read your book and enjoyed it. I recommend it to all VDGG fans.

[Bucka001]

I also have found such research fascinating.

I've read your book and enjoyed it. I recommend it to all VDGG fans.

[ronmac]

Do any famous prog musicians have tattoos?

Jon Anderson has a full-body tattoo of Jon Anderson.

Apologies to Steven Wright.

[Trane]

Rick documents his meeting with Castro in Grumpy Old Rock Star and apparently they got on like a house on fire. He says that Cuba is nothing like the western world is lead to believe- and remember he's a card carrying Conservative Party Thatcher-ite. Interesting stuff.

yeah, there were PC Maggie Bitcher-ites kling-ons dishing out vicious rumours about every cuban citiens being castroted if they were caught exiting the country

ok, I'm out!!!

[Jeremy Bender]

It didn't start out as research. In college, mid-late 80s, I discovered the microfilm room of the library and immersed myself (when I could) in old MM's and other stuff. Then I discovered the library in Chicago had even more great stuff on microfilm (NME, Frendz, etc) and I could easily lose myself in there for hours.

I can relate to that, I used to buy Melody Maker, NME and Sounds from about 1978 until the early 80's. They were expensive imports and were always about a month behind, but they were my music bibles. I used to take pride in the fact that I'd know about new British bands months before any of my music obsessive friends.

Saw this in the Wikipedia entry for the MM:

Steve Hackett of Genesis put an ad in MM that was answered by the band frontman Peter Gabriel in 1970.

[Digital_Man]

I remember Jon Anderson saying that they didn't do punk because they went through the phase of being punks. SOmething like "yeah, we were all punks growing up ...."

[bRETT]

. It made more of a difference to the less commercially successful prog acts than it did to the supergroups.
.

Good point-- the big acts were doing fine, but it was a tough time for any more prog bands to break in, whether they were new or longtime cult-level. Even a band like Gentle Giant, who hadn't really broken in the UK yet and now never would. (Albums like Giant's "Missing Piece", Nektar's "Magic is a Child" and UK's debut were at least getting some attention in the US).

The one fluke exception was Renaissance, who had a top 20 single with "Northern Lights" in '78. But I'm not sure if the people who bought that single even identified them as a prog band.