I have very vivid memories of doing a 24 Hour Drive from Salt Lake City to Chicago in a in a thunderous rainstorm, i grew pretty tired through Nebraska, and to stay awake I blasted this entire album for hours on end. It was an incredible experience, mind blowing, almost apocalyptic.Originally Posted by Jeremy Bender
Not true. I don't think it was Elvin, I think it was the drummers who played with Trane before Elvin, and it was an accident. There was a documentary where I saw the drummer in question tell of how one night a drumstick slipped out of his hand because he was sweating a lot more than usual that night (I think because of brighter than usual stage lighting or whatever). Drumstick hits Trane in the back of the head. After the concert was over, the drummer apologizes profusely, explaining what happened, etc. Trane's response: "Oh, I thought you were trying to tell me to cool it with the 20 minute solos!"
yeah, I also read that version somewhere (maybe in the One Up, One Down posthumous release's liner notes, but I couldn't swear it)
my music collection increased tenfolds when I switched from drug-addicts to complete nutcases.
the Circle stuff is out there....Anthony Braxton is prominent. I love it...but my point is that artist can go WAAAAY out, and then make stuff that's "more commerical." Some artists, at least......You're hired
Nope, now that you mention it, I haven't
wotsitlike??
Exhibit A. Gato Barbieri.
Ha ha, yeah, Gato's a good example!
Then there's Braxton himself, who doesn't have a commercial bone in his body. Or....maybe Cecil Taylor.
I saw this thread this morning but was so busy at work that I could only respond right now. Jeremy's response is probably in reality the future I predicted for John Coltrane had he lived.
But in truth in brings up the other "What If's?" What is Jimi Hendrix had not died so young? What if Scott LaFaro had not died so young? Oscar Peterson? Would Charlie Parker had adapted to Free Jazz? Fusion?
Be a loyal plastic robot for a world that doesn't care... Frank Zappa
I think you must mean Oscar Pettiford. Oscar Peterson lived along, full musical life.
The precedent for Bird was Diz. Who did not fundamentally change his thing after he helped invent bebop.
People like Hendrix and Tarne were unique, in a way--always restless, always searching, changing, developing.
I need to start drinking again...
Be a loyal plastic robot for a world that doesn't care... Frank Zappa
Depends on what you mean by "commercial". The other day I was listening to the Creative Music Orchestra (Köln 1978) album the other day, and one of the pieces is a pretty straight forward marching band type thing. I mean, at least until it gets to the solos, then it turns into this crazy free jazz thing before morphing back into the marching band thing for the coda. And I believe he's also done a few albums of jazz standards, though I've never actually heard them so I don't know how fractured his take on the classic songbook would be.
But as far as Braxton doing smooth jazz or anything like that, that's the kind of thing, if it occurred in a dream I was having, I'd have to wake up screaming.
Yeah, but the point of bringing Chick Corea into the discussion was that in the 80's he made music that was so WAAAAY in, it was absolutely disturbing. But a lot of jazz guys did that during the 80's, I guess for survival purposes. I mean, have you ever heard Stanley Clarke's Find Out album? If you wiped the edited the bass solos out of each of the songs, and left the instrumental My Life off, you'd never know you were listening to a record that was theoretically masterminded by the same guy who played in Return To Forever and who also gave us School Days.
These comments I agree with. The idea that Headhunters or even Thrust were "sellouts" I vehemently disagree with. Herbie is IMO the single greatest Keyboard player in Prog music, but there are 2 or 3 albums that just scream sellout... Feets don't fail me, Sunlight and at least one other
Why is it whenever someone mentions an artist that was clearly progressive (yet not the Symph weenie definition of Prog) do certain people feel compelled to snort "thats not Prog" like a whiny 5th grader?
trust me, you don't WANNA find out ... and this is from the man's biggest fan
Why is it whenever someone mentions an artist that was clearly progressive (yet not the Symph weenie definition of Prog) do certain people feel compelled to snort "thats not Prog" like a whiny 5th grader?
I own Find Out. Great bass sounds--really great. The only redeeming feature of that shit.
And I have an album of Braxton doing standards...it's pretty angular...
Yeah, that one was not the best place to start with his music. I think I bought it because I had heard (and apparently liked, at the time) his hip-hop reworking of Born In The USA. Yeah, I know. I can't imagine what I must have been thinking at the time. Actually, as an 80's era R&B record, it ain't that bad. But if you're looking for "fusion" or whatever, this is literally the only track on the album that delivers the good in that regard:trust me, you don't WANNA find out ... and this is from the man's biggest fan
And Stanley wasn't the only one who did that kind of thing. As I mentioned earlier, Narada Michael-Walden made several R&B records, and both he and George Duke produced a lot of R&B records for other artists in the 80's. George actually produced Let's Hear It For The Boy by Deniece Williams, though he insists to this day that he still hates that song. I believe Walden also produced Nothing's Gonna Stop Us Now for Starship! And Reggie Lucas, one of the guitarists from Miles Davis' epochal Dark Magus/Agharta/Pangaea era band produced Madonna's first album.
Yeah, much of that second half of the 70's soul-jazz-funk is really not good...
my music collection increased tenfolds when I switched from drug-addicts to complete nutcases.
his solo album Survival Themes aint too shabby tho
Why is it whenever someone mentions an artist that was clearly progressive (yet not the Symph weenie definition of Prog) do certain people feel compelled to snort "thats not Prog" like a whiny 5th grader?
actually there aint no Jazz in that stuff, just Jazz musicians playing Pop.
Why is it whenever someone mentions an artist that was clearly progressive (yet not the Symph weenie definition of Prog) do certain people feel compelled to snort "thats not Prog" like a whiny 5th grader?
Y'know, even "My Life" is kind of a rehash of School Days.
Chick's recordings with Circle are pretty abstruse, and a bit cerebral, but that is to be expected when you thrown Anthony Braxton into the mix. Chick then decided he needed to communicate with more people and ended up with RTF in various versions.
As to Trane, I would like to believe he would never stop searching. I also think he might have come back to the blues as a basis for the future. I cannot see him embracing rap or disco or fusion.
I love Live in Japan- those endless solos are endlessly inventive. Questing.
I'm not lazy. I just work so fast I'm always done.
How much of that did he actually do? Maybe The Elektric Band's "Light Years;" that's about the only album I can think of that might qualify a comment like that.
Chick in the '80s:
I'll grant you that portions of other Elektric Band albums were a bit cheesy and commercial, but by 1990, they did this album called "Inside Out" (and maybe it ain't Albert Ayler, but it's pretty far from Kenny G or even The Rippingtons):
Last edited by No Pride; 05-13-2013 at 04:25 PM.
I'm with Ernie....Light Years is pretty clearly 80's Electro-Funk Fuzak to a great degree...and there were some moments of "cheese" in the Elektric Band discography, but if you really listen to Inside Out, or Eye of the Beholder, or the first EB album....there's a lot of goodness there.
I think I actually had Find Out first. If I remember correctly, the first time I heard School Days was when Stan appeared on the Letterman show a couple years later:
And in fact, I remember making that same observation, once I heard School Days, that My Life sounded like a rewrite of the earlier composition. Years later, when I brought this up in whichever online forum, I remember somebody saying that Stan actually has done a number of rewrites of School Days throughout his career.
Last edited by GuitarGeek; 05-13-2013 at 03:54 PM.
It is interesting to note that very few Sax players went Rock. Most of the Jazz musicians who started playing Rock were either Keyboard, Guitar, Drum or Bass players. Trumpeters sometimes too, but rarely Sax players. Probably because Sax is *so* tied to Jazz and rarely makes one think Rock.
Why is it whenever someone mentions an artist that was clearly progressive (yet not the Symph weenie definition of Prog) do certain people feel compelled to snort "thats not Prog" like a whiny 5th grader?
You can thank Chuck Berry for that. In the early years of rock n roll, your "swinging teenage combo" wasn't complete without a tenor sax player, and the sax got as many of the solos as the guitar did (think Yakety Yak). Chuck kinda changed all that, 86ing the sax and making the guitar the de facto lead instrument of rock n roll.
Typically when you do hear sax in rock n roll, it's more often someone from the blues/R&B world, as opposed to jazz, or at least the parts they tend to play seem to more blues oriented. There are exceptions, like Sonny Rollins on Waiting On A Friend by The Rolling Stones, for instance.
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