New Love Beach Documentary

[Rufus]

With Genesis and Yes, it was more of a modification (maybe a mollification) of their style rather than a complete turnaround, and in neither case did they descend into total mediocrity (except maybe for half of Union).

Correct!

[moecurlythanu]

With Genesis and Yes, it was more of a modification (maybe a mollification) of their style rather than a complete turnaround, and in neither case did they descend into total mediocrity (except maybe for half of Union).

You are a very kind man.

[Mr.Krautman]

With Genesis and Yes, it was more of a modification (maybe a mollification) of their style rather than a complete turnaround, and in neither case did they descend into total mediocrity (except maybe for half of Union).

In the case of Genesis it was a rather deep and radical "modification" but they were technically too good musicians to reach total mediocrity, even if they tried hard in the later part of their career.

[Kcrimso]

In the case of Genesis it was a rather deep and radical "modification" but they were technically too good musicians to reach total mediocrity, even if they tried hard in the later part of their career.

If Calling All Stations is not "reaching total mediocrity" I don't know what is! I take Black Moon anyday over that one.

[Rufus]

If Calling All Stations is not "reaching total mediocrity" I don't know what is! I take Black Moon anyday over that one.

Correct, plus a few dodgy Genesis albums prior to it!

[happytheman]

album sales.png
The market responded favorably to the 3 albums prior to Calling All Stations.. The band made a mint during that time period.. what's the problem?

[Kcrimso]

album sales.png
The market responded favorably to the 3 albums prior to Calling All Stations.. The band made a mint during that time period.. what's the problem?

Problem is that the music is not good. There is lots of crap that marketplace accepts. I am however of course very happy for the bank accounts of Genesis-men.

[Splicer]

In the case of Genesis it was a rather deep and radical "modification" but they were technically too good musicians to reach total mediocrity, even if they tried hard in the later part of their career.

As long as they had Banksian chord progressions, it sounded like Genesis.

[Splicer]

Problem is that the music is not good. There is lots of crap that marketplace accepts.

The food here is terrible and it's always so crowded.

[Batchman]

The food here is terrible and it's always so crowded.

And such small portions!

[vmartell]

I remember someone asking... What if "Love Beach" had instead a solid color + lettering cover (like the "Works" albums ) and had been named "Memoirs of an Officer and a Gentleman"... would people perceive it differently?

[Mr.Krautman]

I remember someone asking... What if "Love Beach" had instead a solid color + lettering cover (like the "Works" albums ) and had been named "Memoirs of an Officer and a Gentleman"... would people perceive it differently?

It would certainly have helped a little but not enough. In The Hot Seat has a decent cover but is still considered by many as the worst ELP record.

When prog-rock became unfashionable many prog artists felt a need (or record companies pressures) for a relooking to clearly show that they were no longer part of this past musical trend. Ugly covers and artistic compromissions became the norm. Gone were the long hairs and beards...

At least the covers matched the (musical) contents very well.

Would these be better records with a different cover ? :

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(No, it's not Kim Wilde but Annie Haslam !)

[JJ88]

^I sort of like Cured for what it is. It's not as good as the ones before, but there's nothing disastrous on it IMHO. (Highly Strung probably has lower lows, in fact.)

They could have called Love Beach anything, but it would still have 'Love Beach' (the song) and 'Taste Of My Love' on the record. Those two are real howlers. Most of the other 'poppy' songs are only average. I don't really thnk anything on it other than 'Canario' would ever make any kind of anthology/best-of.

[Mr.Krautman]

^I sort of like Cured for what it is. It's not as good as the ones before, but there's nothing disastrous on it IMHO. (Highly Strung probably has lower lows, in fact.)

They could have called Love Beach anything, but it would still have 'Love Beach' (the song) and 'Taste Of My Love' on the record. Those two are real howlers. Most of the other 'poppy' songs are only average. I don't really thnk anything on it other than 'Canario' would ever make any kind of anthology/best-of.

"Nothing disastrous" on Cured ? Tastes may differ but it is unanimously considered as the weakest S.H record. Made of 8 short (all but one under the 5 minutes bar) would be "poppy/commecial" songs, poor singing (it never was S.H strength), uninspired bland compositions, all drum machines , cheap production...
S.H's failed attempt to become a successful 80ies pop singer. (Thanks God he failed !)
In comparison Love Beach is almost a masterpiece: at least there are a couple of minutes here and there to be saved...

[Mr.Krautman]

A few more from my "Prog Heroes Goes Into Eighties" gallery of horrors.
I guarantee that NONE of these records are listenable for any prog (or related) fans, NOT a single track to save, 100% awful, 100% prog-less. Don't try (you've been warned !).
ALL are much worse than ELP's Love Beach.
Ugly repulsive/tasteless covers too, to match the "music" (?) inside.
Yes, I have them all in my collection... mint and untouched for decades.

Covart.013.jpg
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Any more to add ? Please don't refrain, help the Love Beach rehabilitation process... (GENESIS and YES are disqualified, sorry)

[arturs]

^^^ I'm a fan of the first four Triumvirats but Russian Roulette really lives up to its reputation. Your post made me want to give RR a first-ever listen, despite your warning...

The songs themselves on RR aren't horrible. Some funky, some yacht. Juergen's playing is highly competent as always. But the singer... Oy vey... When he tries to be "soulful" he sounds like he's having his tonsils removed. But, still, it doesn't make Love Beach any better to my ears.

[zeprogmeister]

Earth and Fire - Andromeda Girl isn't too bad. And when I look at some online Machiavel live videos, a lot of the later 4 piece tracks seem to be pretty popular among the crowds.

And just to level set reality, Invisible Touch was Genesis' best selling album and the height of their success.. A lot of bands did lose their way, and weren't good at writing shorter pop songs either.

[Mr.Krautman]

Earth and Fire - Andromeda Girl isn't too bad. And when I look at some online Machiavel live videos, a lot of the later 4 piece tracks seem to be pretty popular among the crowds.

And just to level set reality, Invisible Touch was Genesis' best selling album and the height of their success.. A lot of bands did lose their way, and weren't good at writing shorter pop songs either.

"Not too bad" doesn't make it a good record. It's just dull synthetic well-produced pop. I suggest listening to "Song Of The Marching Children" and "Atlantis": is it really the same band ?

Machiavel are still very popular here in Belgium (french speaking part of) but almost unknow outside our country. They stopped producing anything even remotely prog since 1978 and switched to a flavourless un-original pop-rock. They tried almost any possible styles to get a hit without ever succeeding. There are myriads of better bands in the world playing this kind of basic light AOR/pop/rock. I would compare Machiavel to a VERY poor and much less talented TOTO.

Genesis were among the very few 70ies prog giants to made a (very) successful transition into the 80ies (and over), which must be considered a true achievement (even if I don't like their later arena-filling music). Very clever guys and talented musicians... they had the right formula. All the others (except YES and P.GABRIEL) failed or disappeared altogether, including the biggest one: ELP.

[Mr.Krautman]

^^^ I'm a fan of the first four Triumvirats but Russian Roulette really lives up to its reputation. Your post made me want to give RR a first-ever listen, despite your warning...

The songs themselves on RR aren't horrible. Some funky, some yacht. Juergen's playing is highly competent as always. But the singer... Oy vey... When he tries to be "soulful" he sounds like he's having his tonsils removed. But, still, it doesn't make Love Beach any better to my ears.

... and RR's reputation in the prog community is unanimously execrable ! Now you know why.

You must be a VERY dedicated (ultimate ?) Triumvirat fan to impose yourself the suffering of listening to the whole record. Congratulations if you succeeded !
I listened it only once (when I bought it) and still remember the painful shock, I couldn't believe it was the same band I loved so much. RR was not just "bad", it was abysmal, dreadful, even if we consider it as a "pop" record.

[Harbottle]

New Trolls moved into 'pop' and were popular in Italy in the late 70s and 80s.
Although their back catalogue is a real mix of styles. I'm quite fond of their attempt to be Soft Machine (Tempi Dispari).
One of the six hundred spin off bands did a decent album in the prog style (E?) a few years back.

[battema]

"Nothing disastrous" on Cured ? Tastes may differ but it is unanimously considered as the weakest S.H record. Made of 8 short (all but one under the 5 minutes bar) would be "poppy/commecial" songs, poor singing (it never was S.H strength), uninspired bland compositions, all drum machines , cheap production...
S.H's failed attempt to become a successful 80ies pop singer. (Thanks God he failed !)
In comparison Love Beach is almost a masterpiece: at least there are a couple of minutes here and there to be saved...

Gotta be careful with words like "unanimous"

Cured has Air Conditioned Nightmare, which is pretty fun. I suspect Blues with a Feeling and (maybe) Til We Have Faces are ranked lower.

Two minor others: Chicago during the Foster/Cetera hits era (and beyond for a while), and Roger Waters with Radio Kaos. The latter is especially tricky because until recently I was a pretty solid fan of RW, and I heard this close to it's original release. I think there are some good songs buried in there but even for someone who generally LIKES the 80's sound it's not an album that has held up well to my ears.

[JJ88]

"Nothing disastrous" on Cured ? Tastes may differ but it is unanimously considered as the weakest S.H record. Made of 8 short (all but one under the 5 minutes bar) would be "poppy/commecial" songs, poor singing (it never was S.H strength),
In comparison Love Beach is almost a masterpiece: at least there are a couple of minutes here and there to be saved...

Sorry but there's nothing as bad/dumb as ''Love Beach'/'Taste Of My Love' on Cured.

Gotta be careful with words like "unanimous"

Cured has Air Conditioned Nightmare, which is pretty fun.

Indeed- I don't think it is even that badly regarded? A few of the other songs are nice enough like 'Hope I Don't Wake'.

I can't comment on Til We Have Faces or that blues album; their reputations preceded them so I never bothered. But I'd take Cured over something later like Wolflight.

Two minor others: Chicago during the Foster/Cetera hits era (and beyond for a while), and Roger Waters with Radio Kaos. The latter is especially tricky because until recently I was a pretty solid fan of RW, and I heard this close to it's original release. I think there are some good songs buried in there but even for someone who generally LIKES the 80's sound it's not an album that has held up well to my ears.

Obviously there was a big shift from the early sound but some of the 80s Cetera-Chicago hits are OK (I like 'Hard To Say I'm Sorry/Get Away'). It's when he left they became utterly generic. Stuff like 'Look Away' could have been anyone. I remember being amazed to find that was a US Number 1!

I like KAOS more than Pros And Cons... I don't listen to either often though.

[battema]

Obviously there was a big shift from the early sound but some of the 80s Cetera-Chicago hits are OK (I like 'Hard To Say I'm Sorry/Get Away'). It's when he left they became utterly generic. Stuff like 'Look Away' could have been anyone. I remember being amazed to find that was a US Number 1!

I like KAOS more than Pros And Cons... I don't listen to either often though.

Oh, I like some of those 80's Chicago pop tunes too (I slightly prefer the ones that came on the albums immediately after Cetera left)...just that they DID change considerably to chase the commercial brass ring.

Moreso than even Momentary Lapse of Reason, if RW were to revisit and upgrade the production on KAOS I'd at least be curious.

[dgtlman]

Honestly, has any band been successful at that? Totally changing their style and abandoning their earlier uniqueness? When has that ever paid off commercially?

Ambrosia

[battema]

Oh snap...that reminds me: Journey