New Love Beach Documentary

[JJ88]

UK's Danger Money is more the sort of sound I feel that ELP should have had in the late 70s than Love Beach.

I guess there's a question over whether this album would be quite so disliked without that cover and title? I think it would. The first few songs just aren't good. I don't really think there's anything on it that I would call great.

ELPowell had a better US chart placing than the last few 70s ELP albums did (and deservedly so). But it wasn't by any means a blockbuster- and the 90s reunion albums did far worse commercially. ELPowell is IMHO easily the best ELP-related album after Works Volume 1, and I only really play the group tracks on the latter.

[Batchman]

If ELP had to "go commercial," it's too bad they didn't manage to pull it off as well (aesthetically) as Gentle Giant did. As disappointing as the last couple of GG albums were to fans, they were still respectable, and if you didn't know the band's history you would think they were a better-than-average straight rock startup. Of course, that conversion was no more commercially successful businesswise than ELP's.

One could also compare with Genesis post-Gabriel, the difference there being their massive commercial success, but that was mainly triggered by personnel changes rather than outside forces.

[JAMOOL]

big difference there is the members of ELP couldn't really stand each other.

[battema]

big difference there is the members of ELP couldn't really stand each other.

Definitely a rarity among the prog giants we all know and love

[progmatist]

I would classify In the Hot Seat as AOR. Like Asia albums starting with Astra. Unlike Love Beach which does have some proggy moments. I typically drop the needle on the last track on side one, Canario. Then flip it over and play side two in its entirety.

[Mister Triscuits]

If ELP had to "go commercial," it's too bad they didn't manage to pull it off as well (aesthetically) as Gentle Giant did. As disappointing as the last couple of GG albums were to fans, they were still respectable, and if you didn't know the band's history you would think they were a better-than-average straight rock startup.

GG was a funny case, because those last three albums were all completely different from one another. The Missing Piece was still a pretty great album with enough residual Gentle Giant DNA to overcome the obvious concessions to commerciality. Giant for a Day was simply not very good. Not bad, but not GG, and not very original. Pleasant enough to listen to but nothing special anywhere to be found. Civilian was original, and sounded like a whole new band. Not Gentle Giant at all, but a really solid, hard rocking album.

[gojikranz]

I would take take ELpowell and 3 over LB or the 90s stuff.

Always wish they had soldiered on and done 3.2 at the time though I’m sure like asia they would have stiffed commercially given the oncoming shift to the 90s. At least we finally got the, imho excellent 3.2 album many years later though of course coming from a very different place.

[JJ88]

I would take take ELpowell and 3 over LB or the 90s stuff.

There's a few songs on To The Power Of Three I genuinely like, although the production and Palmer's drum sound have aged less than gracefully.

I don't necessarily mind a shift towards a 'commercial' sound if there's a commitment to it. I like 90125, Asia's debut and a fair bit of 80s/90s Genesis. I still think that was quality material on its own terms. It does become an issue for me when you serve up stuff like some of the first side of Love Beach, where it sounds like nobody's really into it.

The rehearsals in the video were extra tracks on some CD versions. I don't agree with the claim that 'All I Want Is You' has any connection to 'Future Times/Rejoice'.

[Guitarplyrjvb]

GG was a funny case, because those last three albums were all completely different from one another. The Missing Piece was still a pretty great album with enough residual Gentle Giant DNA to overcome the obvious concessions to commerciality. Giant for a Day was simply not very good. Not bad, but not GG, and not very original. Pleasant enough to listen to but nothing special anywhere to be found. Civilian was original, and sounded like a whole new band. Not Gentle Giant at all, but a really solid, hard rocking album.

Totally agree with this. I might even rank Civilian above The Missing Piece. The old GG DNA holds sway, though.

[rael74]

he's no Rael (from this parish)!.

I agree. I spoil you lot.

I enjoyed the doc though.
With regards to this era of ELP, I always wished they’d gone down the heavy fusion road that Carl Palmer was driving at.
This gives a hint at what could have been:

[per anporth]

I agree. I spoil you lot.

I enjoyed the doc though.
With regards to this era of ELP, I always wished they’d gone down the heavy fusion road that Carl Palmer was driving at.
This gives a hint at what could have been:

I absolutely agree - LA Nights, Bullfrog, Close But Not Touching, Food for Your Soul & the revisited Tank, are standouts from the Works lps, & gesture towards a quite new musical direction that could have been followed.

My guess is that Lake had little interest in this kind of musical direction, or that it wouldn't have suited his approach to bass guitar.

[RuudE]

My Two cents... I bought the album when it came out. Of course, first thoughts were: What the hell is this (I really loved Works Vol 1).
But over the years it grew on me. I now think it is a great album and play it regularly! I loved 'For You' from the beginning and also liked the title track. Same for Canario. Memoirs grew on me - great stuff. Add to this that I don't dislike the opening track and think 'Taste of my love' is so embarressing that it is fun, it leaves me with just one track I don't play from the album.... So four solid stars for me, Ahum!

[bondegezou]

I'd been ignoring this album for years, but finally, out of curiosity, gave it a listen on YouTube. I basically agree with many of you that Canario is OK, Memoirs has some nice bits but is fundamentally tedious and trite, and the rest of the songs are an embarrassment. Though I actually prefer them to Lake's solo numbers on Works.

I'm not eager to listen to ITHS or BM if they're even worse. Life is too short.

ItHS much worse. Black Moon... not a top ELP album, but possibly better than Love Beach.

[bondegezou]

I did sort of have this album in mind when I mentioned that ELP were still quite capable in 1978 of composing and playing at a high level. I think ELPowell, some eight years later, is proof of that. Another six years beyond that, and I'm not so sure anymore. In any case, ELPowell just makes LB look worse in my mind... a missed opportunity, and a true waste of talent and electricity.

I do not share this rosy view of ELPowell. I prefer Black Moon. I much prefer 3's ... to the Power of 3.

[battema]

ItHS much worse. Black Moon... not a top ELP album, but possibly better than Love Beach.

ItHS feels like an album that was only about 30% through the writing process when someone said "good enough, get that sucker on the shelves pronto" I somewhat feel the same way about Heaven & Earth by Yes TBH.

When I first heard Black Moon I really loved it, probably because it was something new from the band. It hasn't aged terribly well for me, although I don't hate it and a few songs still scratch that itch for me. I greatly prefer ELPowell.

I don't own Love Beach and don't plan to fix that anytime soon

[JJ88]

My main issue with Black Moon relates to Palmer; the drum sound and the more basic style of playing. (Well, and Lake's changed vocals.) It's not a bad album on the whole, though. I play it reasonably frequently. In The Hot Seat, hardly ever. I only played Love Beach recently as a result of this thread.

They did go on Top Of The Pops to promote 'All I Want Is You'.

[Sputnik]

I do not share this rosy view of ELPowell. I prefer Black Moon. I much prefer 3's ... to the Power of 3.

That fine, different tastes. Black Moon and Power of 3 are essentially pop rock albums, very little Proggy elements. In this regard, I thought Black Moon was OK, but it's not really what I want or need from ELP. ELPowell has plenty of Proggy panache and great energy, other than the dud Lake ballad. This is more what I want from ELP, and I think it occasionally brushes against the greatness of their best 70s albums. BM and P3 are just not in the same league, but at least they largely achieve what they set out to do.

Bill

[bondegezou]

That fine, different tastes. Black Moon and Power of 3 are essentially pop rock albums, very little Proggy elements. In this regard, I thought Black Moon was OK, but it's not really what I want or need from ELP. ELPowell has plenty of Proggy panache and great energy, other than the dud Lake ballad. This is more what I want from ELP, and I think it occasionally brushes against the greatness of their best 70s albums. BM and P3 are just not in the same league, but at least they largely achieve what they set out to do.

To the Power of 3 has "Desde la Vida", its own proggy mini-epic, and I just love their version of "Eight Miles High".

[Sputnik]

To the Power of 3 has "Desde la Vida", its own proggy mini-epic, and I just love their version of "Eight Miles High".

"Desde la Vida" sounds like Europe trying to do Prog. There's a little cool piano in there, but most of it just plods along, and there are parts that are not developed at all (the whole section from 2:00 to about 3:45 is a total waste). In this "Proggy epic" there's maybe about two minutes of "Prog." Hardly a game changer for the album as a whole, which again, is fine for what it is, but this doesn't especially elevate it in my mind.

"Eight Miles High" is fine. They basically make it a dance track, which I don't find especially exciting. I've heard way better interpretations of this tune that get far more out of it, so color me a bit unimpressed, though as pop rock dance music, I guess I might prefer this to some of the alternatives.

Bill

[bondegezou]

What makes us a true fan community is that we can spend this time discussing albums we all agree are poor!

[arturs]

With regards to this era of ELP, I always wished they’d gone down the heavy fusion road that Carl Palmer was driving at.

UK's Danger Money is more the sort of sound I feel that ELP should have had in the late 70s than Love Beach.

It is interesting to think about what approach might have actually saved ELP from the smarmy tripe of Love Beach. Danger Money is clearly an artistically valid possibility.

Here's another one... Sky . It is surprising that ELP and their record company suits totally missed this opportunity, particularly since most of us have chosen Canario as the only listenable (very good actually) track from LB. Had they made a whole LP's worth of Canarios they might have ended up with something like this and yielded a top-10 album.

[JJ88]

^Sky do the 'rocking the classics' thing to an extent, and had considerable success in the late 70s. But Sky's approach was much lighter musically than ELP's. They had that 'middlebrow' crossover beyond rock fans as a result. I think ELP's audience in their prime would have been mostly (at the time) younger rock fans.

I think Francis Monkman's original, long suites- especially 'FIFO'- are Sky's best work.

The influence of ELP on UK's Danger Money is apparent, and yet it's better than what ELP themselves were doing at that point in time. (Though not better than 1970-4 ELP, by any means!)

Really, I think ELP had simply lost interest somewhat in the later 70s- burn-out, personal disputes etc.

I just love their version of "Eight Miles High".

I like the 3 album to some degree but I think that's just awful.

[JAMOOL]

I strongly encourage y'all to check out the 3 live recordings - they do a bunch of ELP instrumental stuff and it absolutely rips...guess Emerson's hand problems hadn't started just yet

[Batchman]

With regards to this era of ELP, I always wished they’d gone down the heavy fusion road that Carl Palmer was driving at.
This gives a hint at what could have been:

Glad you mentioned Back Door. Always been one of my favorites. They didn't start out fusion-like, though; originally a 3-piece (sax/bass/drums) output with blues and jazz roots. Added keyboards and vocals in later releases, but still great. Check out the first three albums: s/t, Another Fine Mess and 8th Street Nites.

A lot of what Mohini Dey is doing reminded me of what that 3-piece lineup is capable of when you have a bass player as skilled as Mohini or BD's Colin Hodgkinson.

(The connection here is that Carl Palmer produced the Activate album.)

[Rufus]

UK's Danger Money is more the sort of sound I feel that ELP should have had in the late 70s than Love Beach.

I guess there's a question over whether this album would be quite so disliked without that cover and title? I think it would. The first few songs just aren't good. I don't really think there's anything on it that I would call great.

ELPowell had a better US chart placing than the last few 70s ELP albums did (and deservedly so). But it wasn't by any means a blockbuster- and the 90s reunion albums did far worse commercially. ELPowell is IMHO easily the best ELP-related album after Works Volume 1, and I only really play the group tracks on the latter.

Agree 100%