I quite like Saurez, but Hot Dog runs D'Yer Mak'er close for worse song ever by Led Zeppelin, or indeed by any major rock band.Originally Posted by JJ88
Wearing and Tearing was Page and Plant's response to punk rock, but in that regard it's twice as long as it needs to be.
I pulled out the live album "How The West Was Won" the other day. Still a favorite of mine.
Out of all the biggest bands in the world, Led Zeppelin is the one artist that kind of perplexes me. I should like them a lot better than I do. They're arguably the most important band second only to The Beatles. I don't think there's a single album I enjoy all the way through, but yet each one has a few tracks I really love. But if I'm honest, when it comes to hard rock, I always got more mileage out of Sabbath, Purple, Heep and Thin Lizzy. And all these bands were capable of light, shade and variety-not to mention, the occasional foray into prog. (okay, maybe not Thin Lizzy so much, but)....don't get me wrong, I like Zeppelin well enough, but the reverence for them is something I've never been quite on board with. IMO.
The only thing that really surprises me here is that you don't hear "light, shade, and variety" in Zeppelin's music. To my ears, Zeppelin ranks far higher in all these categories than any of these other bands, and that's why I like them so much better... plus I just generally think that, on the whole, they craft better songs that hang together and have more "spark" than most (though by no means all) of these other band's music.
In the end it's all taste, and I'm actually with you on the whole "reverence" thing with Zeppelin. I don't worship at Jimmy Page's altar, or think Bonzo is the be-all, end-all drummer. I just really enjoy their music, and find far more of the elements I enjoy, like light, shade, and variety, in Zeppelin's music than almost any other straight up R&R band. Zeppelin also have their "Proggy" moments, though I stop well short of considering any of these bands "Prog Rock."
If they're not your thing and you like others better, that's fine. Enjoy the tracks you enjoy. I only present my "disagreement" with your observation as an opportunity to maybe give a listen back and see what Zeppelin has to offer in the "light, shade, and variety" spectrum. I think the range they cover is uncanny, and almost unduplicated among 70s rock bands who weren't "Prog."
Bill
I'm only ok a few days a week. IV would be my 4th pick also
"Who would have thought a whale would be so heavy?" - Moe Sizlak
Oh I know. Even a song like Walter's Walk manages to be heavy rock, with a 50s feel. It's uncanny. Even Wearing & Tearing has a furious rockabilly vibe. I'm not hearing punk at all, just furious Rock and Roll.
^^Concur re: wearing and tearing and rockabilly on speed
Death inspires me like a dog inspires a rabbit
I definitely hear a Punk "inspiration." But I agree that Zeppelin put their own spin on it, and rootsy rock is never far from their hearts.
Bill
They were a big influence on Heavy Metal but they were never metal. They were a heavy rock band. They played blues, and good old Rock & Roll, and some Celtic folk. They were brilliant.
Exactly. They included a bit of funk (The Crunge, Trampled Under Foot) and added Indian and Middle-Eastern influences as well to the mix (Friends, Kashmir).
I think I remember a various artists album that was advertised on TV in the 70s, called Heavy Metal. If my memory isn't letting me down, Zep's contribution to that LP was "D'yer Maker."
At times, Zeppelin were Proto Metal. They did have a huge influence on the style, but weren't as based in that approach as Sabbath. That said, even when they played blues or 50's rock, they gave it a heavier spin that I think made it something quite different than the originals that influenced them. Add the folk influences, and even an eye toward Prog Rock, and you have a unique combination, and that's what's really special about the band, imo.
Bill
Good analysis. Zeppelin has always distanced themselves from being included in the early evolution of heavy metal. To me they were heavy metal in 1969. The first doom song I ever heard was Dazed and Confused. As heavy as Sabbath, in my opinion. I always thought of Sabbath as a poor man's Zeppelin in 1970. I was wrong, of course.
Speaking of Zeppelin, I watched a few videos from the O2 concerts on Youtube recently and decided to bite on Celebration Day. The performances are really good, to my ears. I got the 2CD/2DVD set. Anybody else enjoy this release?
Bill
Yes. I bought it several years ago. That's my third Zeppelin DVD. I like it a lot.
I'm hearing the song Rock and Roll at the pub right now. It's the only time I hear it. Zoso is my favorite LZ album. It was the first album of theirs I ever heard, and bought with my own money. Never cared about R&R that much. Stairway is great, but I never hear it on purpose. Lol.
Yes, all things considered I thought they sounded great.
Ferocious. Can't stop listening to it
I simply, cannot stop listening to this. I need a doctor.
So, I gave my copy of Coda a fresh spin tonight. Mine actually has four bonus tracks, "Baby Come On Home," Traveling Riverside," "White Summer," and "Hey Hey." I have to say, I enjoyed it. The only songs that seem to get a little long in the tooth for are "Bonzo's Montreux" and "White Summer," but having not heard either for ages, I didn't mind sitting through them.
I still think "Ozone Baby," "Darlene," and "W&T" are the best of the bunch, and any of those could have replaced "Hot Dog" to make ITTOD a more solid record. I'm not ga-ga over the album, but for a bunch of outtakes, it is actually a pretty solid listen, especially with the addition of those other tracks.
Bill
Those extra tracks were added to a CD version in The Complete Studio Recordings box, which I don't have. It should absolutely have had 'Hey Hey...' and 'Baby...' originally. The latter was an outtake from the debut album sessions, I think.
'Travelling Riverside Blues' was a mono BBC session. A good performance and probably better than much of Coda. 'White Summer' is a BBC In Concert recording and Page started doing that in The Yardbirds (it's basically Davy Graham's interpretation of 'She Moved Through The Fair'). That Bonham instrumental...not into that, really. I guess its inclusion was a tribute of sorts.
I find the Royal Albert Hall 'I Can't Quit You Baby' a curious inclusion on the original album, as it's not very different from the original.
On the whole, I don't think they had a lot of finished outtake material to choose from for the album.
Last edited by JJ88; 02-26-2024 at 03:07 AM.
I'd probably agree that Zeppelin were the most varied of those, but not by too big a margin, and the range of things they actually did well was similar. It's the commitment to rootsy stuff and having a recurring, solidly developed acoustic folk/folk-rock side that most distinguishes them to me, but I do think some of their attempts to move outside electric blues rock haven't aged well and fall into bad kitsch, plagiarism, or novelty. The blue-eyed soul, acoustic country blues numbers, stylistic experiments on HotH (Crunge, D'yer Maker), the attempts at sophisticated American-style soft "yacht" rock, and longer keyboard-dominated tracks on ITtOD (Fool in the Rain, All of My Love, Carouselambra). All among their worst work, imo. A lot of Plant's choices as a singer haven't aged well either—the over-the-top sonic blackface on some of the blues numbers, cringey orgasm simulations, and attempts at sexuality, especially live with the oooh, baby, push push schtick. For me, he's come to represent a lot of the worst of '70s rock frontman schtick and sound; his tonality and cringey live extemporising make it hard to revisit a number of tracks I would otherwise enjoy.
Thin Lizzy had the same acoustic/electric psych/folk/hard rock/soft ballad stylistic variety on their early trio albums, but went in a more focused direction after that. Purple, i think, had similar variety when taken as a whole, but lacked the same variety of instrumental textures and tended to move through phases with the different lineups rather than mix it up as often track by track. Sabbath, definitely not as much textural/stylistic variation, though there was usually enough in there to stop things from getting too monolithic; their hard rock compositional abilities were just as strong.
Heep were just shite.
RE: Presence
Tea for One had an entire thread on the Hoffman Forum a few years ago, with some arguing it was a far more masterful piece that was acknowledged back in the day. When Presence was released some thought it was a poor copy of "Since I've Been Loving You", because both songs were in C Minor. After that thread I spent half the summer playing that song once a day. There's a lot of space between "SIBLY" and "Tea". The former was pretty much cut live in the studio, although there were several takes. Lyrically, it's just "woman done me wrong" blues pastiche. Plant was still finding his legs in writing lyrics at this point though "That's the Way" and "Tangerine" on side two are serious advancements. "Tea for One" is light years beyond that - this is from the perspective of a man trapped in a German studio, watching two of his friends descend deeper into heroin's grasp and all he wants to do is get the fuck back to England, to his wife and kids. Plus he's got a shattered ankle. The song is BLEAK. The song itself is a studio creation, with overdubbed Telecaster notes falling like freezing rain. The overdubs are endless and startling when you listen to them, easily as much as on "Achilles Last Stand". The clock on the studio time was ticking. Page reportedly recorded every solo in an 18 hour stretch, according to Keith Richards who checked into the studio to start work on the Stones' Black and Blue.
I can play guitar but I can't analyze stuff by ear. There's a Hoffman regular called Rose River Bear who, when he gets time, does these breakdowns of guitar work on songs he feels deserve attention. Here's his take on "Tea for One"
Turn it up loud and let those little Tele icicles fall from the ceiling as Plant mourns his predicament.They are definitely similar. Both are slow blues in C minor, I-IV-V chords are used and both primarily use the same C Aeolian scale along with the minor pentatonic and blues scales. At least another slow blues type song they did like I'm Gonna Crawl was an inventive blues progression with an augmented chord in the progression not being as a turnaround chord (and should have been played live). I'm Gonna Crawl has a major key verse and minor key chorus which Jimmy solos over both sections beautifully.
The two songs are far from carbon copies. Granted they are both in C minor but have tonicizations that are very different. Since I've Been Loving you has that amazing chromatic turnaround of D7-D Major 7th-C Minor. Tea for One has the more somber F-B flat to C minor turnaround. Both are brilliant blues with their own harmonic personalities.
I don't like country music, but I don't mean to denigrate those who do. And for the people who like country music, denigrate means 'put down.'- Bob Newhart
I love Tea For One - it sounds like an epilogue not only to the classic Zeppelin sound, but possibly to a whole era. The wall of multiple guitars that Jimmy started building with Houses Of the Holy and onward is simply amazing.
I was thinking the other day how they could have proceeded in the 80's, if the Bonham tragedy hadn't occurred. And as a band they just didn't belong in this new 80's setting. It's good that they stopped, and it helped them cement their legend, in a way that bands like Deep Purple or Uriah Heep never did.
...Out Door has indicators of the sort of direction they'd have gone in during the 80s. Maybe Pictures At Eleven is a good guide as well.
They were 'revolving door' bands from very early on, in terms of personnel. Black Sabbath also became that in the 80s/90s. I think the 'legacy' does sometimes get damaged in such instances.
Plant was done with it when his friend died.
Presence is my favorite Zep album, and they are, aside from the Beatles, the most important Rock Band I believe.
Since I've been Loving You is a great tune, and a great performance, but Tea For One is on another level, IMO. It's an Existential blues tune. For me, Presence was the last great Zep album. Achilles is a solid wall of guitar with Valkyries screaming down from the skies. also a very dark take on War......Hots On for Nowhere is so funky and playful, Nobody's Fault But Mine is one of my favorite renditions of a blues tune--Zep took it in a different direction than their usual take on the blues. For You Life is pretty funky, as well...and Plant sang it from a wheelchair, if I recall correctly.
All their albums are great, IMO, though everything after Presence is a step down. I think Houses is probably my number two.....
"And this is the chorus.....or perhaps it's a bridge...."
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