Frank Zappa was 'incapable of saying anything fond about anyone or anything"

[rcarlberg]

^ If you read the article, you would know the answer to that question.

Or listened to "Mudshark."

[MudShark22]

The Edgewater Inn....

[emoji28]

[flowerking]

In Winter's film there's a section with an interview in which Zappa promptly reveals that he doesn't have any friends except for his wife and four kids - and he seems pretty openhearted about it, without a lament.

Granted I haven't read all biographical material on the man, but from the handful of books and numerous articles and interviews I've encountered throughout the years, Zappa comes across as a realist cynic - someone who basically has understood how there are equal downsides to most things good, and that love or friendship can turn harder back on you the harder they're remitted. I believe it was Ray Collins (early Mothers' singer) who once said that Zappa's experience with his first wife had changed him and his outlook on the world and its people quite dramatically. He was apparently reluctant to speak of it himself.

Zappa himself had said he had no friends, just family and employees. Thats not to say he didn't have fun with them. I think he truly enjoyed the company of some of his bandmates like Ike Willis (just my own assumption).

As far as his first marriage changing him, it was probably other incidents too. He probably felt the universe was picking on him some of the things he had to endure like being busted for making pornography, being pushed off stage and having all his equipment burn (which happened about a week or two before he was pushed off stage). Between such incidents, failed marriage, and his own self-isolation because he was a workaholic and obsessed with producing his own music, he probably moved further and further away from what we would consider normal relationships with people.

On the other hand, I don't buy that he was incapable of saying anything fond about anyone. If nothing else, I think he appreciated the talents of a lot of the musicians he worked with.

[trondis23]

Am I wrong to believe the Zappa never engaged in bumping groupies (including the GTOs) and remained faithfull to Gail?
(no doubt that if he had engaged even once, some "charitable soul" would've reported it to Gail).

I saw a documentary once where he openly talked about his relationship with groupies. "I just like to get laid", he said, and if he got the clap he just took some pills and it would be OK. Then he called for a girl who was in the room and asked her to flash her titties in front of the camera, and he demonstrated how to get her nipples stiff by using a vacuum cleaner...

[Piskie]

^^^^^ Some continuity there then.....

[Plasmatopia]

The other several dozens of albums were the ones that weren't quite as staggering.

Ah, I missed that distinction, lol.

[Zeuhlmate]

I'm a fanboy - great article, well researched.

[Rarebird]

I was particularly shocked that he released a "staggering" 23 albums.

In the 70s, which might be correct, if you count the studio-albums he made till the end of the 70s. If you leave out the albums made in the 60s and add the live-albums from the 70, it's a bit less, counting on Progarchives.

[Scrotum Scissor]

I don't buy that he was incapable of saying anything fond about anyone. If nothing else, I think he appreciated the talents of a lot of the musicians he worked with.

He expressed the upmost respect for a number of contemporary musicians, including several of his own - although possibly not directly to their face. How can anyone aware of Zappa's lifechanging admiration for an artistic figure as singular as Edgard Varese even suggest that the guy was "incapable blah-blah"?

[Dave (in MA)]

[Watanabe]

An old friend of mine from my organised crime days worked as a minder for London escorts, something that would often entail trips backstage at music venues. He mentioned once that one of the girls told him that Zappa had the smallest cock she had ever seen, with barely even a visible shaft while fully erect. Eric Clapton, Peter Frampton, and Roger Chapman (this one surprised me for reasons I couldn't quite articulate) also had infamously small tools, though I doubt we can rule out exacerbation via hard drug use for the former. There were other stories too... Ginger Baker's dick was said to be eerily identical to Jimi's, but white; Phil Shulman could only orgasm while licking unwashed arses; and Eddie Jobson would frequently request being dry fisted.

tbh i didn't believe the Shulman one. It seemed the crafty bastard was just trying to make a pun about Acquiring the Taste.

[Mr.Krautman]

F.Z was fully aware of his outstanding abilities and condescending (at best) to others, mainly rock musicians. He seemed to show (a little) more respect to classical trained musicians and composers. Sometimes even admiration. (Varèse, Stravinsky, Boulez,...)
No doubt he was a genius (and knew it) but would have never won any "Modesty Contest" prize.

[Dave (in MA)]

An old friend of mine from my organised crime days worked as a minder for London escorts, something that would often entail trips backstage at music venues. He mentioned once that one of the girls told him that Zappa had the smallest cock she had ever seen, with barely even a visible shaft while fully erect.

Zoot Allures

[yesstiles]

No kidding!!!
Am I wrong to believe the Zappa never engaged in bumping groupies (including the GTOs) and remained faithfull to Gail?
(no doubt that if he had engaged even once, some "charitable soul" would've reported it to Gail).

It’s well-known that Zappa had carefree sex with scores of young ladies throughout his marriage. Gail was well aware and understood the arrangement, even though she didn’t like it.

[Trane]

^ If you read the article, you would know the answer to that question.

It’s well-known that Zappa had carefree sex with scores of young ladies throughout his marriage. Gail was well aware and understood the arrangement, even though she didn’t like it.

Ok, so I was totally wrong about this.
For some reasons (which I can't recall), I've always thought he was onto teen smut and female criticism for commercial aspects.
Thx

[Mr.Krautman]

An old friend of mine from my organised crime days worked as a minder for London escorts, something that would often entail trips backstage at music venues. He mentioned once that one of the girls told him that Zappa had the smallest cock she had ever seen, with barely even a visible shaft while fully erect. Eric Clapton, Peter Frampton, and Roger Chapman (this one surprised me for reasons I couldn't quite articulate) also had infamously small tools, though I doubt we can rule out exacerbation via hard drug use for the former. There were other stories too... Ginger Baker's dick was said to be eerily identical to Jimi's, but white; Phil Shulman could only orgasm while licking unwashed arses; and Eddie Jobson would frequently request being dry fisted.

tbh i didn't believe the Shulman one. It seemed the crafty bastard was just trying to make a pun about Acquiring the Taste.

This could explain why Zappa never accepted to be "plasterized" by Cynthia and her casters team ("Plasters Casters")

But the official version is this:


Wendy Mitchell, in the celebrity pages of 'Salon.Com', asks Cynthia Plaster:

Mitchell: "Did you ever cast Zappa?"
Cynthia: "I never cast Frank Zappa because in real life he was a normal family man with the reputations of his wife and children to consider. Casting was never his thing, but he sure was qualified to be in my collection!"


Now I leave you to interpret what she really meant by "qualified"...

And for those who don't know: In Cynthia's "Plasters Casters" team there were girls whose job was to "prepare" the organ to be plaster casted. I guess I don't need to explain in details how...

[IncogNeato]

Has this article been mentioned yet?
https://www.loudersound.com/features/frank-zappa-1970s

The Zappa fanboys will hate it, but it sounds pretty accurate to me, from what I know of Frank.

That article was great.

I have to admit to being a fan of Zappa the man more so than a fan of his music.

[Unfrankie Valli]

And for those who don't know: In Cynthia's "Plasters Casters" team there were girls whose job was to "prepare" the organ to be plaster casted. I guess I don't need to explain in details how...

They famously did George Costanza, but just after he'd been in the pool.

[Mister Triscuits]

I hesitate to respond after the well-poisoning in the OP, but I found the article very badly written and loaded with factual errors. On the plus side, there are some great quotes from Gail Zappa and Adrian Belew.

This is very much the British journalistic take on Zappa: that he is fundamentally an artifact of the '60s. The article is ostensibly about Zappa in the '70s, but talks more about Hot Rats than any of the '70s albums, and keeps returning to the '60s even in the middle of discussing the likes of Over-Nite Sensation and Apostrophe. (The "giraffe filled with whipped cream" quote is a reference to the Mothers' notorious 1967 residency at the Garrick Theater in NYC.) And if you want some insight into why Zappa seemed so "obsessed" with lyrics about Dirty Love and Yellow Snow, just look at how much attention those albums are given, while the brilliant, primarily instrumental jazz albums from 1972 are dismissed in a single, grossly inaccurate, sentence (neither Napoleon Murphy Brock, whose name is garbled, nor Bruce Fowler played on those albums), and other smut-free albums like Studio Tan and Sleep Dirt are not mentioned at all. (Yes, the related Läther project is mentioned, but again in a factually inaccurate context.)

The idea that Hot Rats was a turning point in Zappa's career is also a British thing, as the album was a hit over there. But even though it has stood the test of time and become one of FZ's best-loved albums, it was a flop here at home, charting at #173 after the previous album, Uncle Meat, had almost cracked the Top 40. (Simply being credited to Frank Zappa as opposed to the Mothers of Invention probably had a lot to do with that.) The idea that FZ made Hot Rats in response to a desperate need for a "hit" is ludicrous.

I'm not sure how the author figures that FZ released 23 albums in the '70s; I count 21. Maybe he's including the MGM compilations.

The title of the article is pure clickbait. Zappa was a complex person, and although his curmudgeonly exterior may have concealed a curmudgeonly interior, he was also quite capable of being warm, generous, and yes, even loving. (On meeting Gail: "It took a couple of minutes, but I fell [don’t laugh] in love.") I’m grateful that folks here quickly dropped the amateur psychoanalysis based on the biased, one-dimensional, and third-hand accounts in this article.

As for the size of FZ's tool, maybe that’s an armadillo on the cover of Zoot Allures. (Larry the Dwarf: "I stuff three rolled-up socks and a bar of beauty soap down the front of my trousers.")

[Mister Triscuits]

Some of this is nonsensical. I do not ever remember anyone or any record store being so grossed out by Weasels Ripped My Flesh that they refused to carry it. Zappa's record covers were pretty well-known by then and this would not have grossed people out.

I think I got my copy at Sears.

[Dave (in MA)]

Is that a real Weasels or a Sears Weasels?

I think I got my copy at Sears.

Hmmm, no foolin'?

[Scrotum Scissor]

An old friend of mine from my organised crime days worked as a minder for London escorts, something that would often entail trips backstage at music venues. He mentioned once that one of the girls told him that Zappa had the smallest cock she had ever seen, with barely even a visible shaft while fully erect. Eric Clapton, Peter Frampton, and Roger Chapman (this one surprised me for reasons I couldn't quite articulate) also had infamously small tools, though I doubt we can rule out exacerbation via hard drug use for the former. There were other stories too... Ginger Baker's dick was said to be eerily identical to Jimi's, but white; Phil Shulman could only orgasm while licking unwashed arses; and Eddie Jobson would frequently request being dry fisted.

tbh i didn't believe the Shulman one. It seemed the crafty bastard was just trying to make a pun about Acquiring the Taste.

It's better to believe all of it. That way you'll never risk being surprised at anything whatsoever.

[trondis23]

It’s well-known that Zappa had carefree sex with scores of young ladies throughout his marriage. Gail was well aware and understood the arrangement, even though she didn’t like it.

Check out this Youtube video:

[ronmac]

An old friend of mine from my organised crime days worked as a minder for London escorts,...

Just under the wire for TMI post of the year.

[JAMOOL]

Two points. (1) Some of this is nonsensical. I do not ever remember anyone or any record store being so grossed out by Weasels Ripped My Flesh that they refused to carry it.

the way the article is written makes it pretty unclear but I thought this was referring to the cover of Burnt Weeny Sandwich, which is pretty grotesque indeed. everyone loves the Weasels cover.