No, there have been so many shows of “Howe” Yes with mainstream audiences, that these comments are just curmudgeon.Originally Posted by Top Cat
No, there have been so many shows of “Howe” Yes with mainstream audiences, that these comments are just curmudgeon.
What is the band meant to do? Ring up every ticket buyer to tell them the line-up? The poster advertising the tour lists the band members. The website advertising the tour lists the band members. Anyone can look the band up on Wikipedia and see the band members.
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Seeing them tonight in NJ....particularly looking forward to this - which sounds great IMHO
And count me in as another who would rather hear more than one song from the new album. I really enjoy Mirror.... and wish they would play more of it.
Indeed but in reality, they wouldn't be in venues of this size (mostly theatres) with Anderson or Wakeman.
I liked the approach on the last Yes tour with those two of doing some of the warhorses within the acoustic set.
The set-list itself offers a spread from across their career, which is good. Although that 'Tales...' medley definitely needed smoothing over somewhat IMHO.
Last edited by JJ88; 09-30-2023 at 12:52 PM.
Perhaps I didn't express myself well enough. I was speaking about the mentality of casual Yes FANS, not the band, promoter, agency or local venue advertising Henry...
I think it's easy to assume some of the ticket buyers are proactive, when they aren't. It's too much work to do the things you suggest.
Soundcloud page: Richard Hermans, musical meanderings https://soundcloud.com/precipice YouTube: [https://www.youtube.com/@richardhermans4457
I understood exactly what you meant. I really don't understand the "casual" Yes fan. They haven't had that many hits. I wouldn't pay $100 to go hear a show by a band that I don't really know, aside from 3-4 songs.Perhaps I didn't express myself well enough. I was speaking about the mentality of casual Yes FANS, not the band, promoter, agency or local venue advertising Henry...
I think it's easy to assume some of the ticket buyers are proactive, when they aren't. It's too much work to do the things you suggest.
Todd Rundgren shows are always interesting for this reason. The hardcore Todd fans, which usually make up most of his audiences, want to hear new stuff and rarities. The casual fans get ANGRY when he starts playing newer stuff, but newer stuff for them is basically anything after "Hello, It's Me". He recently did a couple of retrospective tours to appease that crowd somewhat, but they still don't know most of what he plays and they complain in their reviews. I'd rather hear the current Yes lineup play the whole new album, but I know that will never happen. Would be nice if they'd at least do 3 songs, as most of the casual fans won't know half the older stuff anyway. I don't need to hear All Good People and Roundabout for the umpteenth time, especially when I've heard them ad nauseum by better lineups.
Last edited by progfan1; 10-01-2023 at 05:20 PM.
I think it's the nature of the beast for most if not all of the classic rock/prog rock bands...
For instance we have two great classic bands, Yes, Kansas and Styx who continue to release new music/studio albums.
I would love to go to a Styx show and hear them perform 3 or 4 songs each from The Mission and Crash of the Crowns. But they're all locked in to playing the same songs fans are expecting every tour.
Soundcloud page: Richard Hermans, musical meanderings https://soundcloud.com/precipice YouTube: [https://www.youtube.com/@richardhermans4457
If I were a record label I would want it in a band’s contract that they have to include “X” minutes of new material in the live set as a condition for putting out the album.
"It was a cruel song, but fair."-Roger Waters
I saw them in New Brunswick last night, and I quite enjoyed from start to finish. I watched some of those videos from Lititz and Bethlehem and they were way more clunky in those shows imho. I didnt detect any of that last night.
Just a couple thoughts:
The setlist was killer. I knew it going in, obviously, but such a varied deep setlist! I love that they still revisit The Ladder album. I recall a few tours ago they did "Nine Voices" also. "It Will Be a Good Day" is definitely not my favorite Yes tune, but it was done well. My favorites from the night were "Turn of the Century" and "Machine Messiah". "Cut from the Stars" sounded great, fit in very well with the setlist, and got a nice reaction from the audience. I do wish they could have fit another Mirror song in there, or even "The Ice Bridge". I enjoyed the Tales medley. I know others don't, and maybe it was more of the early performances were not as smooth, but I thought it was really good.
I am a huge Downes fan - I love The Buggles, Drama, Asia, FFH, The Light Program...but darn it if it seems he is under-utilized on this tour. I've also never been a fan of how he has his back to the audience so much with his keyboard setup. What he played, he played well, but often I felt he wasn't high in the mix and didn't really have opportunities to "shine", if you know what I mean. Late into the show, he also seemed to be having some issue with one of his keyboards or setups - a tech came out a few times and he came across kinda frustrated, waving his arms a couple times.
Overall, I thought Howe, Davison and Sherwood really shined. I know many point out that Howe can't play some passages with as much dexterity or as quickly as he did 40 years ago, and maybe I am not quite that much of a stickler - I thought he was excellent and always a pleasure to hear him play. Overall, a really solid show that I would see again if I could.
The Roger Dean presentation - I got the impression that many in the audience did not know that this was going to happen. While interesting, the first 15-20 minutes was pretty darn dry - especially if you're trying to speak to fans who are amped up for music to start. A few times, fans yelled out "Music!". And when after about 20 minutes, Roger put up the first image of his artwork on the screen, someone yelled "Finally!". I think it would translate better if he got right to the artwork and his working with Yes, rather than all that lead-up time of his early years and talking about Hitler and FDR and art. Once he got going with showing his artwork on the screen though, there was clear interest and applause. Roger even joked about Avatar and how his artwork looked great on the big screen. It was also very cool to see a couple of the NEARfest program covers used as part of his presentation. I clapped when I saw those, but I was the only one. lol I got the impression that this room was not filled with deep prog fans, but more of the casual fans.
While waiting to get in to the venue, I overheard lots of conversations. Lots of people like this. One fella said "They have too many albums. I like the one what has "Roundabout" and "All Good People".
I came across this interview with Howe published a few days ago. Thought it had some interesting bits:
https://www.guitarplayer.com/players...graphic-oceans
Guitar Player: So you’ve got the new Yes album – two in 19 months, in fact.
Howe: [laughs] Well, what happened is what happened to everybody. The beginning of ’20 was a bit of a wake-up call. It was fortunate I’d had my studio upgraded the year before, and studio recording was where the energy could go. Suddenly it wasn’t about building the next set list for the live show. It was, “What about an album, then?” We’d started thinking about it, but of course this was the golden opportunity to have a golden harvest of recording.
When we finished The Quest, a lot of music had come in, and when we realized all was still not good with the world as far as touring goes, there was time to do Mirror to the Sky. I’ve enjoyed it a lot, and the guys did too. We’ve made some miserable records in Yes’s career – some were like pulling teeth, and then we’d dash out on tour. So it is quite nice to be able to take time and work on the music. Both of these records were made by everybody having their own sort of process in writing, coming up with the material, then sending it to HQ, which is where [engineer] Curtis Schwartz is. Then I’d go in and sort of sift through it at his place. What you’re hearing is Yes in 2023, and it is a team. It isn’t Steve Howe and his bunch of cohorts trying to emulate Yes. You’ve got to be Yes to really do what Yes can do.
Guitar Player: That’s an interesting statement. What does it mean to be Yes?
Howe: I think it’s a shared belief together now, but also in line with everyone that’s been in it before. Because, in a way, nobody can replace Jon [Anderson] or Chris [Squire]. All the people who have been on that journey have contributed enormous things. It’s a bit like a Star Wars sequel: You have Star Wars and another Star Wars and another Star Wars.
So Yes are like an undefined story of how music can be developed, of how people can take adventurous ideas, and the thread that sort of runs through it all. I think that’s what the Yes idea is. You have to know that story. It’s like a taxi driver: You can’t drive around New York unless you know New York, if you know what I mean. You have to know that story.
The difference is that Styx and Kansas have WAY more hits than Yes, but I get your point.
Well, I entirely misunderstood you then! Apologies.
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Maybe not for $100, but I've been to shows by bands I knew less well and, guess what, I tended to enjoy the hits I knew more. I remember seeing Caravan live. I love the classic Caravan albums; I've not kept up with the Pye Hastings-led current band. I saw them a few years back and I didn't want to hear new material, I wanted to hear "Golf Girl". And as I was thinking that, I also realised, "Oh... this is what lots of people at a Yes show are like."
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The band would just go to a different label!
No-one in the industry is under any illusions. They all know that old audiences for old bands want the old stuff. Some acts push that more (Peter Gabriel has been discussed, Jethro Tull play a lot of new material), some not as much (Yes, Kansas), some hardly at all (King Crimson, Carl Palmer).
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Blogdegezou, the accompanying blog: http://bondegezou.blogspot.com/
I saw a post on FB recently where someone was asking why Wakeman isn't on this tour, and someone responded the Waleman hadn't been in the band for twenty years. Then the OP replied that wasn't right because he was there when they saw them a couple of years ago. After a second of thinking they were completely confused, I realized they probably just weren't distinguishing "Yes featuring ARW" from "Yes (Official).
Well, yes, that did complicate things! Although it's now been over 5 years since ARW last toured.
Where Are They Now? Yes news: http://www.bondegezou.co.uk/wh_now.htm
Blogdegezou, the accompanying blog: http://bondegezou.blogspot.com/
I know I mentioned this before, but I was standing in line at a Nektar show several years ago when Howe's Yes was touring. A guy in line was talking about Wakeman being in the band. Of course, it was Downes. I guess the blonde hair threw him off.
"The White Zone is for loading and unloading only. If you got to load or unload go to the White Zone!"
no problemo, thanks Henry.
Sometimes my brain is running faster than my fingers when I'm posting. lol
Soundcloud page: Richard Hermans, musical meanderings https://soundcloud.com/precipice YouTube: [https://www.youtube.com/@richardhermans4457
Does Caravan actually do “Golf Girl” live without Richard Sinclair?
Maybe they would, but my position would be that if you can’t help to sell the record in which I’m investing money by playing 20-30 minutes of the album on your tour then I’d rather hunt for a younger, hungrier band and put that money on them.
"It was a cruel song, but fair."-Roger Waters
In Yes terms that could be satisfied by playing “Cut From The Stars”, “All Connected” and “Mirror To The Sky”.
"It was a cruel song, but fair."-Roger Waters
Henry is likely correct, but I agree with you. I would want at least a representation from any record I released played on the following tour. At least more than just one song so it doesn't feel like that is the entire album. Whether or not it is practical for a label to do, it seems perfectly reasonable and like most here I'd enjoy getting to hear some of the new stuff played live. Doesn't have to go to PG lengths, but more than just one track.
Tales 3rd Row at Westbury
I was just reported to the admins on Forgotten Yesterdays' Facebook page after yet another run-in with the always maga-riffic Nic Capp.
those old NoJon/NoYes morality gestapo are still out there. born again, tour after tour and release after release
truly mind bending
This is what I was hoping for, seriously.
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