Porcupine Tree - live album and future

[jefftiger]

And I suspect canceling the dates would be a pretty bad financial loss for the band.

I agree with Battema's assessment. Given that the remaining PT summer shows are mostly festival dates, I suspect that there are some serious financial penalties with cancelling as opposed to had they been touring on their own and been able to unilaterally cancel/reschedule shows.

It always struck me that Wilson and the other PT members did their best to not get into details regarding the Colin Edwin split. It was convenient to say that he didn't participate in any of the C/C composition. Friends have fallings out for lots of reasons; it's happened to me in my lifetime.

I find that their current solution (recorded bass part), while not ideal, is not a horrible solution. If I was going to one of the summer shows, I wouldn't have been totally bummed out at this solution. And given that the tour extends into August, hopefully Nathan's family medical (?) issue resolves itself in a positive manner and he can return to the tour at some point.

[Kcrimso]

Wasn't Tony Levin replaced in few days notice by Jeff Berlin on ABWH tour? It is not impossible.

[battema]

Wasn't Tony Levin replaced in few days notice by Jeff Berlin on ABWH tour? It is not impossible.

Absolutely not impossible. A pretty good interview that covers what he needed to do in order to make the gig happen:

http://www.nfte.org/interviews/berlin_interview.html

Bonus: the part where Brian Lane tried to keep him from getting paid afterwards...which is one way to work around getting someone into a gig on short notice

[boilk]

It always struck me that Wilson and the other PT members did their best to not get into details regarding the Colin Edwin split. It was convenient to say that he didn't participate in any of the C/C composition. Friends have fallings out for lots of reasons; it's happened to me in my lifetime.

True to a point, but again, SW did talk about it in his autobiography and also Richard Barbieri has talked about it in an online interview. SW saying that the bass parts he wrote aren't in Colin's style and RB saying that Colin just wasn't around and hanging out from time to time, over the years.

Neil

[Steve983]

Also I remember that on a couple of tracks on Deadwing (and maybe some others) SW played the bass because CE couldn't get the sound he wanted. I think SW is a brilliant bass player, he just plays in a different style.

[jamesmanzi]

It's just my opinion, as someone who has been a long time PT fan, having seen them multiple times, as far back as the late 90's and as recent as the C/C tour opener in Toronto, and have multiple in-person autographs of the band members on artwork hanging in my home, vinyl, and cds.

To start, and sorry for my tone but, sorry, being a long time fan doesn't entitle you to an opinion about how complete strangers should go about their personal business. I love that you think being a fan and going to shows and getting autographs means you have the right to pass judgement on people you don't know for decisions they make about their lives, how they carry on their personal relationships, who they collaborate with. It's comical, honestly.

The funniest part for me is that people like you probably look down on Taylor Swift fans for arguing with each other about who she should or shouldn't date. You're exactly the same. "I listen to this persons music so I get to have an opinion about who they associate with!"

All that said, what is your feeling about my comment in another post? Steven should swallow his pride and ask Colin to sit in for a few gigs? What about Colin's pride? Does that matter? If Steven asked, should Colin swallow his pride, learn ten or eleven songs he was left out of the creation of, and join the band that had moved on without him with for a handful of gigs?

What is the appeal to this for Colin? Or did you forget to factor that in while you were making this plan for people you don't know?

[Aggie87]

To start, and sorry for my tone but, sorry, being a long time fan doesn't entitle you to an opinion about how complete strangers should go about their personal business. I love that you think being a fan and going to shows and getting autographs means you have the right to pass judgement on people you don't know for decisions they make about their lives, how they carry on their personal relationships, who they collaborate with. It's comical, honestly.

The funniest part for me is that people like you probably look down on Taylor Swift fans for arguing with each other about who she should or shouldn't date. You're exactly the same. "I listen to this persons music so I get to have an opinion about who they associate with!"

All that said, what is your feeling about my comment in another post? Steven should swallow his pride and ask Colin to sit in for a few gigs? What about Colin's pride? Does that matter? If Steven asked, should Colin swallow his pride, learn ten or eleven songs he was left out of the creation of, and join the band that had moved on without him with for a handful of gigs?

What is the appeal to this for Colin? Or did you forget to factor that in while you were making this plan for people you don't know?

Well, you've certainly got tone and attitude. To respond - what WOULD entitle me to have an opinion, in your world? Is there anything that disallows opinions? "People like you" is a very judgemental comment.

I'm not going to respond further, other than to say what's wrong with discussing something like this on a music bulletin board? I didn't email SW directly and demand that he re-hire Colin Edwin. I'm a fan, talking about a band I love.

You seem overly offended by my thoughts.

[jamesmanzi]

To respond - what WOULD entitle me to have an opinion, in your world?

Literally nothing, TBH. Steven Wilson and Colin Edwin are complete strangers to you. Their lives are none of your business. Of course you're allowed to have an opinion. Just as I'm allowed to have an opinion of your opinion.

"I didn't email SW directly and demand that he re-hire Colin Edwin."

Why not? Why tell randos on the internet that Steven owes Colin and olive branch, but not Steven himself?

Funny, I guess if you're not going to respond further you're not going to address why Colin's pride isn't a factor in your plan.

You seem really, really offended by my thoughts too. I guess it's okay to talk about why you disagree with someone's actions and opinions as long as they're not going to see it, but directly telling someone you think they're wrong is... tone and attitude?

[marblesmike]

If only Steven could swallow his pride and let Colin Edwin substitute for however long was necessary. The bass parts on the C/C album were done by SW, so presumably Edwin could learn them quickly (as he likely did on earlier PT songs where SW brought his own demos in for the band to develop). Edwin was the consummate soldier in PT.

I realize this won't ever happen though.

So you know for a fact that Steven is the one keeping Colin from the band? If you read his recent book, it seems like two band members (not SW) were at each other's throats by the end of The Incident touring cycle and offered "him or me" ultimatums.

Also, SW has been on record saying PT (especially this iteration) is more democratic than say his solo career and has said that Gavin is the musical director of the tour, so again why are so many blaming Colin's absence solely on SW?

[jamesmanzi]

so again why are so many blaming Colin's absence solely on SW?

I've been curious about this since the uproar when C/C was first announced. The three of them recorded the album together over the course of years without Colin, but of course Gavin and Richard were just helpless under the thumb of heartless tyrant Steven to get their dear friend Colin back into the band.

[Aggie87]

Literally nothing, TBH. Steven Wilson and Colin Edwin are complete strangers to you. Their lives are none of your business. Of course you're allowed to have an opinion. Just as I'm allowed to have an opinion of your opinion.

"I didn't email SW directly and demand that he re-hire Colin Edwin."

Why not? Why tell randos on the internet that Steven owes Colin and olive branch, but not Steven himself?

Funny, I guess if you're not going to respond further you're not going to address why Colin's pride isn't a factor in your plan.

You seem really, really offended by my thoughts too. I guess it's okay to talk about why you disagree with someone's actions and opinions as long as they're not going to see it, but directly telling someone you think they're wrong is... tone and attitude?

You win. I'm not allowed to have an opinion. Or I am allowed to have an opinion but you're allowed to mock it. Nice that you've given me two options, one of which you dictate things, the other of which you mock me. Either way that says something.

What pride was Colin displaying by not being allowed to participate in the PT reunion? By all accounts he wasn't made aware that the other three were working together in secret, so how was he to know that he was supposed to ask to be involved? And why would that involve swallowing his pride anyway?

[Aggie87]

So you know for a fact that Steven is the one keeping Colin from the band? If you read his recent book, it seems like two band members (not SW) were at each other's throats by the end of The Incident touring cycle and offered "him or me" ultimatums.

Also, SW has been on record saying PT (especially this iteration) is more democratic than say his solo career and has said that Gavin is the musical director of the tour, so again why are so many blaming Colin's absence solely on SW?

I don't know anything for a fact, other than SW is the de-facto leader of Porcupine Tree, and always has been. I would think he would ultimately have the final say regarding who's in the band and who's not.

[jamesmanzi]

You win. I'm not allowed to have an opinion. Or I am allowed to have an opinion but you're allowed to mock it. Nice that you've given me two options, one of which you dictate things, the other of which you mock me. Either way that says something.

I haven't mocked your opinion. I've disagreed with it.

What pride was Colin displaying by not being allowed to participate in the PT reunion?

By all accounts he wasn't made aware that the other three were working together in secret, so how was he to know that he was supposed to ask to be involved? And why would that involve swallowing his pride anyway?

But now I might mock you a little: do you seriously think I'm suggesting that Colin's pride was involved in his not being involved in the reunion? How TF would that even work?

By the accounts you offer, he was greatly wronged. The rest of the band recorded an album behind his back. And went on tour without asking him. You're very offended on his behalf, so I'm assuming you assume that he is offended too.

And you don't understand how his pride would come into the act of putting all that aside and coming running if they asked him too?

This conversation just took a very weird turn.

[jamesmanzi]

I would think he would ultimately have the final say regarding who's in the band and who's not.

And Gavin and Richard would just go along with whatever he declared because? You know they're grown men who can make decisions for themselves, yes?

The funniest part of this is Wilson has very publicly made it known that he left it up to Gavin to find a bassist and guitarist for the tour. He literally, in the most literal terms, was not the person who decided who is in the band.

Tell me how you chose guitarist Randy McStine and bassist Nathan Navarro for the touring band.

Gavin found them. I’d never heard of either. But Gavin is kind of the unofficial MD of the band because I think myself and Richard will always defer to Gavin on anything…because he’s by far the best musician of the three of us. So Gavin, I think, had played on one of Randy’s albums. I think he just found Nate playing on Instagram. We had a sort of a rehearsal session with both those guys a few weeks ago, and they’re phenomenal and it sounds amazing. Super nice guys.

https://www.undertheradarmag.com/int...e_continuation

[Mr.Krautman]

This is getting tiring. I really can't see the point of this discussion: WHO decided WHAT, etc... I really don't care.
The band facing an unexpected event had to find a quick emergency solution to be able to continue the tour.
"They" decided to use backing tracks to (temporarily ?) replace the failing musician which is an acceptable option in this context, provided that it was previously announced (and it was) an no one going to the concert will be deceived.
Bass tracks in PT's songs were never challenging or too complex anyway and I think very few concert attendees will notice the substitution.
Replacing a bassist like Nick Beggs in a SW solo tour with a computer backing track would have been MUCH more challenging (if not impossible) though...

[IncogNeato]

This is getting tiring. I really can't see the point of this discussion: WHO decided WHAT, etc... I really don't care.
The band facing an unexpected event had to find a quick emergency solution to be able to continue the tour.

^^^ This

[jamesmanzi]

This is getting tiring. I really can't see the point of this discussion: WHO decided WHAT, etc... I really don't care.

I agree, and I apologize for hijacking the thread just to discuss the fact that there shouldn't be a discussion. My bad.

[mozo-pg]

You guys should hug and make up.

[aith01]

I agree, and I apologize for hijacking the thread just to discuss the fact that there shouldn't be a discussion. My bad.

You still raised a lot of very good points. I largely agree with you.

Navarro had to leave because of a family emergency — something potentially very serious — and yet someone (because they’re a longtime fan) still had to criticize Steven Wilson for not “swallowing his pride” and having Colin Edwin come back to the band. What about expressing concern for Navarro and sympathy for him and his band mates all being in this unenviable situation? That’s too much to ask of some people apparently.

The exact sort of thing Randy McStine was talking about.

[3LockBox]

This is getting tiring. I really can't see the point of this discussion: WHO decided WHAT, etc... I really don't care.

Well I disagree. Page long disagreements are very entertaining and I have a feeling those two were just getting warmed up. Thanks for ruining it.

[jamesmanzi]

Well I disagree. Page long disagreements are very entertaining and I have a feeling those two were just getting warmed up. Thanks for ruining it.

This would be funnier if it didn't come like nine hours after I agreed that it was unnecessary nonsense and apologized.

[Dave (in MA)]

You guys should hug and make up.

Either that, or they could be the undercard at the Zuck/Musk bout.

[jamesmanzi]

Either that, or they could be the undercard at the Zuck/Musk bout.

We were having a fucking disagreement about how people have reacted to Navarro's departure. It lasted all of a half dozen posts. I have already apologized for wasting bandwidth. Fuck off with this crap.

[Moribund2]

Any word on the Live album?

[jamesmanzi]

Any word on the Live album?

Barbieri:

"It would be silly to say that we are never gonna make another album, because you don't know. We don't know what's gonna happen in two years' time, three years' time. We do have a live album that's coming out at the end of this year. And that sounds really good. So it's quite exciting."

https://metalinjection.net/news/porc...another-record