First Flower King Remasters Out Today

[calyx]

Also, the Flower Power remix sounds really good to my ears. "Psychedelic Postcard" is a revelation now that the vocals have been changed from that rather grating (IMO) "munchkin" sound on the original.

Well, I haven't listened closely to the quiet bits, but it seems to me there's clicks/pops in "Hudson River Sirens Call". Let me/us know if you hear anything else there and on the rest of the album.

[Plasmatopia]

I've been happy with Flower Power and plan to get the first two at least. Still waiting to see what's up with Stardust after reading the commentary here.

[chalkpie]

World of Adventures and Retropolis?

IMO, no I wouldn't cancel. What I've heard sounded good to me. Also, the Flower Power remix sounds really good to my ears. "Psychedelic Postcard" is a revelation now that the vocals have been changed from that rather grating (IMO) "munchkin" sound on the original.

I liked the weird munchkin alien vocals myself

[aith01]

I liked the weird munchkin alien vocals myself

I understand. They were always a little off-putting to me, but I guess that might have been because I felt embarrassed to play it in front of anyone else back when I first got Flower Power. That whole "prog is silly" kind of stereotype (which isn't exactly wrong, at least not completely).

[Czyszy]

I liked the weird munchkin alien vocals myself

I never liked that effect tbh. I'm glad the remix got rid of it.

[Plasmatopia]

I think the remixes are fun and we always have the original mixes to fall back on. The way he goes about remixes sometimes (even re-recording parts or finding previously unused takes) it's probably not that different than some of the work he would do on a new album. Like he has some basic tracks and he's going to tweak the song by adding keys, guitars, vocals, percussion, fairy dust, etc.

Seeing UTF remixed/remastered yet again seems kind of weird though. It hasn't been that long since the last one. From my perspective looking from the outside this seems like an assembly line process. I would have preferred more thorough and painstaking remixes and/or "definitive" remixes/remasters (although I admit to being a bit conflicted on what those would look like, exactly). I haven't looked closely into this, but I noticed at least one track on the new Flower Power release is the version from The Road Back Home. It seemed to integrate well into the rest of the album, but this makes it seem like he's just doling out the remixes/remasters in piecemeal fashion and sort of compiling the newer bits as they are finished. I mean, I realize there's a significant effort involved in remixing an entire album in excruciating detail, but I'd rather see him pick and choose an album here and there and spend more time with each one. The way this is going now we can expect the "definitive" versions in about 10 years.

I'm here to eat my words. I was thinking Hudson's River Siren's Call was on The Road Back Home. Nope!

I can definitely hear some pops and clicks on HRSC and this track is labeled "Hudson River Siren's Call 1998". Not sure what that's all about.

[progmatist]

I've discovered within the past week using the Amazon Music app on a Firestick 4K or better, it will play in full Hi-Res quality. Just glancing through the list of apps, I noticed there's also a Tidal app. Maybe a Qobuz app as well, but I didn't actually search for it.

[Plasmatopia]

One thing I noticed is that there were some very harsh sounds in parts of Flower Power (like in the song "Don't Let D'Evil In") that the remaster seems to have tamed. I realized that this had been putting me off the album to some degree over the years. It's much more enjoyable now.

[infandous]

I'm here to eat my words. I was thinking Hudson's River Siren's Call was on The Road Back Home. Nope!

I can definitely hear some pops and clicks on HRSC and this track is labeled "Hudson River Siren's Call 1998". Not sure what that's all about.

That's the name it has on my CD I bought in 1999.

[infandous]

One thing I noticed is that there were some very harsh sounds in parts of Flower Power (like in the song "Don't Let D'Evil In") that the remaster seems to have tamed. I realized that this had been putting me off the album to some degree over the years. It's much more enjoyable now.

Funny, I actually love how that comes in so harsh, since it seem to fit the subject of the song. But I'll have to listen to the remix/remaster I guess to see if I like it better or not. I always felt Flower Power could use a remaster at least.

[Plasmatopia]

That's the name it has on my CD I bought in 1999.

Okay, I guess I didn't remember that.

[Plasmatopia]

Funny, I actually love how that comes in so harsh, since it seem to fit the subject of the song. But I'll have to listen to the remix/remaster I guess to see if I like it better or not. I always felt Flower Power could use a remaster at least.

I know what you mean, but I'm thinking that taming the upper frequencies a bit could be making for a more enjoyable listen overall.

[Soc Prof]

I contacted Century Media (Inside Out Music's official US store) asking why they didn't have the latest two remasters from The Flower Kings. Here's what I got back:

"We appreciate that you've taken the time to contact us! I am sorry, but we are not given anticipated restock dates for out-of-stock items, nor are we provided with advance notice of what may become available in the store. We do not have any information regarding items carried or offered by other retailers."


So, it seems to be a stocking issue. Once these are (back?) in stock, I'll ask if the digital downloads that come with the CDs are 16 bit or 24 bit. HDtracks has the first two remasters (Back in the World of Adventures, Retropolis) in 24 bit but not the next two (Stardust We Are, Flowerpower).

[progmatist]

^^ Flower Power is only 16bit on Amazon Music, whereas World of Adventures and Retropolis are 24bit. InsideOut may deem it not worth the effort to make 16bit recordings available on HDTracks.

[Soc Prof]

^^Thanks for the info. Well, that sucks! But it isn't surprising since Inside Out Music is inconsistent regarding releasing albums in 24 bit.

[Flightwave]

Announcement made for Space Revolver, my favorite TFK album! I’ll preorder from Ken at LE once available.

[hFx]

To beat a dead analogue horse...

There is a benefit to mix 16-bit individual tracks to 24 bits as long as many tracks are mixed (as their level lowered to "fit" all tracks under the digital zero).

But what do you get with those bits, compared to analog? (sampling frequency is another separate issue).

The dynamic range of the best analogue master tapes are some 75 to 77 dB.

Good vinyl can achieve 55 to 65 dB (not including any clicks and pops of course)

16 bit provides 96 dB dynamic range, 20 bits provides 120 dB and 24 bits provides 144 dB.

Quite early, dithering noise was introduced in the recording process, which magically (or not really, just signal theory) increase the bit depth by adding noise, worth about 3 bits of resolution. So a dithered 16-bit signal can hold 19 bits, 20 bit reach 23 bits and... no one bothers to dither 24 bits

Practical example as discussed in the thread - the above figures proves that natural reverb tails (rooms, plates, not digital) are way way more detailed on a DDD CD than on even the best vinyl.

Edit:

Some facts - old but timeless:

https://people.xiph.org/~xiphmont/demo/neil-young.html

And this classic video...

[Soc Prof]

Qobuz has Space Revolver and The Rainmaker for preorder at 24/96 resolution. So, Inside Out Music apparently just decided to skip over Stardust We Are and Flowerpower for hi res release. Why, only they know.

[progmatist]

^^ Perhaps partially because Stardust was released on vinyl years ago, along with Unfold the Future. Which I bought from Ken at the time.

[Soc Prof]

^^^^^That could be it. I have a feeling there is more to the story. Both the EU and US stores for Inside Out Music are sold out of anything related to Stardust We Are and Flowerpower. If we're lucky, it means that Roine admitted that he messed up the masters and is making a second attempt.

[Plasmatopia]

So far I'm really enjoying the new versions of BitWoA and Retropolis. I still haven't taken the time to A/B them with the originals, but I've already noticed significant differences when listening in the car. The most radical change I heard on BitWoA was "Theme For A Hero" where some things seem to be missing and new stuff shows up in a very noticeable way. But there are lots of other details like a much more crisp sounding baseline in "Go West Judas" and massive floor tom growl in "Cosmic Lover". Eventually I'll hear this stuff on better speakers, but I'm pretty happy with the changes I've noticed. I'm sure the originals will still have their nostalgic charms though.

[Mota]

I'm giving Stardust a good listen on Spotify right now. I have heard some of those artifacts for sure, to me it seems like a bad MP3 rip from the 90's, with this weird artifacting and pops coming up. Definitely digital sounding. And then a few static type sounds as well which seem like vinyl. No idea how it was approved.

But the actual remix/remaster seems pretty good, I actually prefer the sound of the 2022 version over the original.

As I have ordered the CD's from Amazon, they've been pushed back several times, and currently targeted for September 2nd (doubt it as it has moved around weekly). So I have a bit of time to determine if I can handle the weird artifacting and the improved sound, or if I'm just going to buy the original CD's somewhere. I have committed to buying all of the CD's, as I didn't have the majority of them before, so I'm really enjoying this opportunity to dig into their catalog once again.

I did send Roine a message and he responded. They intend on re-releasing all the albums until Banks of Eden, and there currently aren't any plans (yet) to re-release the live albums.

[aith01]

They intend on re-releasing all the albums until Banks of Eden, and there currently aren't any plans (yet) to re-release the live albums.

Does that include Banks of Eden, or would they stop at The Sum of No Evil?

[Mota]

Does that include Banks of Eden, or would they stop at The Sum of No Evil?

The exact quote was:
I guess all albums up to Banks of Eden will be re-issued as LP/CD

I also used Audacity to try and remove some of the clicks and pops from Poor Mr. Rain's Ordinary Guitar (a quiet song), and it was partially successful, with some definite improvements, but there were still quite a few pops left. You'd also have to rip the CD as a single track and treat it that way, as the songs flow into each other and any editing could cause some "marks" or gaps between tracks if the levels change during editing.

[aith01]

I'm salivating at the thought of The Sum of No Evil on vinyl.