Canterbury Binge: 2022

[pb2015]

Howard is on SM 5.

Although Howard wasn't on Fourth he did start collaborating with Dean around the time of that album, and sat in with the Softs at one of the BBC gigs that was released on CD later.

[Piskie]

Thanks for the suggestions Steve F - I do have some In Cahoots. When you look at any top 100 Canterbury Scene album lists they are nearly all from the 70s and I'm running out of new ones to get!

[Steve F.]

Thanks for the suggestions Steve F - I do have some In Cahoots. When you look at any top 100 Canterbury Scene album lists they are nearly all from the 70s and I'm running out of new ones to get!

I'm amazed that someone thinks that there are 100 in total, honestly. It wasn't a huge scene and it didn't last particularly long.

I hope some other folks here can suggest post 1980s albums with Canterbury influences for you. I will be curious to see what other folks post.

[Piskie]

^^^ I've seen the Hulloder list (which someone linked to in a previous binge) and Progarchives have one too. I have a good few of them now, but guess I'm searching for some more of that magic in a jar that the two National Health albums had.

[pb2015]

I had one of Phil Miller's 80's CDs but had trouble getting comfortable with it for reasons similar to NH D.S. al Coda. Will give that era of his music another try one of these days.

[calyx]

I had one of Phil Miller's 80's CDs but had trouble getting comfortable with it for reasons similar to NH D.S. al Coda. Will give that era of his music another try one of these days.

The band tracks on "Cutting Both Ways" really sound like NH with Elton Dean on sax IMHO. Pete Lemer's keyboard sounds are vintage-sounding enough for that not to be an issue. Steve Franklin's keys on "Split Seconds" are a bit more of their time, although he's a great player too with original ideas. Both these albums also have tracks that use programmed drums and synths, but wherever there's a real drummer (Pip), no Simmons drums are used, which is a lot of people's (including mine) main issue with "DS Al Coda".

[Hunchentootz]

Poking around on the web and looking at the Drop liner notes, I can't find confirmation of his age compared to the rest of the group.

Marshall was a more disciplined drummer, maybe less exciting but a good long term fit for what the group had become by 1972.

https://canterburyscene.wordpress.co...howard-enigma/

Interesting article on Phil.

[alucard]

I'm amazed that someone thinks that there are 100 in total, honestly. It wasn't a huge scene and it didn't last particularly long.

I hope some other folks here can suggest post 1980s albums with Canterbury influences for you. I will be curious to see what other folks post.

Agreed,
here are two of my fav NeoCanties :
Billie Bottle & The Multiple , a touching hommage to Phil Miller, the rest is equally excellent

https://billiebottle.bandcamp.com/tr...r-no-aigrettes
beautiful song and clip



and the Italian band Homunculus Res

[pb2015]

The band tracks on "Cutting Both Ways" really sound like NH with Elton Dean on sax IMHO. Pete Lemer's keyboard sounds are vintage-sounding enough for that not to be an issue. Steve Franklin's keys on "Split Seconds" are a bit more of their time, although he's a great player too with original ideas. Both these albums also have tracks that use programmed drums and synths, but wherever there's a real drummer (Pip), no Simmons drums are used, which is a lot of people's (including mine) main issue with "DS Al Coda".

With the Miller CD I found that in addition to the 80's sound the tunes tended to be in a depressed mood and Phil himself didn't solo much.

[interbellum]

This weekend I've put this one in the player once more: Moleslope: Slope. No news from their site since 2020, so a second album doesn't seem likely yet.

[JKL2000]

^ Moleslope LOL! Funny name!

[Steve F.]

^ ^ ^ ^ ^

Never heard of / heard Moleslope; good pick!

Here's another I just remembered

[Piskie]

Just added D.F.A. Fourth to the collection- I'm sure it deserves an honourable mention here.

[Piskie]

This is a new one to me

[JKL2000]

NP: Gong - Shamal

[thedunno]

I started a Soft machine binge, played the 1st and second yesterday, 3th today and will played 4th later. Have to decide whether I will continue with the rest of the Soft Machine catalogue or with Robert Wyatt.

[Munster]

I started a Soft machine binge, played the 1st and second yesterday, 3th today and will played 4th later. Have to decide whether I will continue with the rest of the Soft Machine catalogue or with Robert Wyatt.

A tough choice. I spent years avoiding the post-Wyatt Soft Machine albums and then found them brilliant when I finally listened to them. That said, the post-Soft Machine Robert Wyatt is really good too. Later this month there is the release of Cuneiform's double CD/DVD Soft Machine set recorded with Lyn Dobson in 1970. That will ease your dilemma somewhat as it includes Wyatt on drums. I am looking forward very much to that one.

[Progatron]

I started a Soft machine binge, played the 1st and second yesterday, 3th today and will played 4th later. Have to decide whether I will continue with the rest of the Soft Machine catalogue or with Robert Wyatt.

Go in both directions simultaneously. Softs 5, End Of An Ear, Softs 6, Rock Bottom, etc.

[chalkpie]

Go in both directions simultaneously. Softs 5, End Of An Ear, Softs 6, Rock Bottom, etc.

Yep. Both are so different but so phenomenal.

[Munster]

Go in both directions simultaneously. Softs 5, End Of An Ear, Softs 6, Rock Bottom, etc.

Would that not be: Softs 5, End Of An Ear, Softs 6, Matching Mole, etc?

[Progatron]

Would that not be: Softs 5, End Of An Ear, Softs 6, Matching Mole, etc?

Sure, if he wants to incorporate even more excellent material into his listening journey... the more the merrier!

[per76]

I'm currently reading Robert Wyatts biography - Different Every Time. And as a result I'm revisiting some of his music. One of the things about Robert (before he went solo) was he coundn't seem to make up his mind if he wanted to do jazz or pop, long improvised instrumentals or songs. In Soft Machine his liking for songs got frozen out completely. But then Matching Mole, which was essentially his band also featured a lot instrumental improv. Playing Matching Mole's Little Red Record it only really has one song. The brilliant God Song. The rest is mainly instrumental. But I really like LRR, it's a bit of a classic, with Robert's drums and Dave Macrae on Fender Rhodes.

[calyx]

I'm currently reading Robert Wyatts biography - Different Every Time. And as a result I'm revisiting some of his music. One of the things about Robert (before he went solo) was he coundn't seem to make up his mind if he wanted to do jazz or pop, long improvised instrumentals or songs. In Soft Machine his liking for songs got frozen out completely. But then Matching Mole, which was essentially his band also featured a lot instrumental improv. Playing Matching Mole's Little Red Record it only really has one song. The brilliant God Song. The rest is mainly instrumental. But I really like LRR, it's a bit of a classic, with Robert's drums and Dave Macrae on Fender Rhodes.

It's a complex issue. On the one hand, the other members of Soft Machine did become reluctant to play songs, because they were more interested in improvising. That's not just Ratledge and Dean, also Hopper who was going through an almost anti-song phase. But on the other hand, Robert stopped coming up with new songs, perhaps because he anticipated that they would be rejected. There only was a brief window during which Soft Machine post-1969 worked on writing songs together, and that was very early on, when "Volume Two" was written and recorded. There was a strong Wyatt/Ratledge writing partnership which, regrettably, went no further, I guess simply because Wyatt and Ratledge no longer saw eye to eye musically. Whether Ratledge would have helped Wyatt write more songs had Wyatt come up with ideas and suggestions, is anyone's guess. But a major, and often ignored, factor is that Wyatt has never been a prolific songwriter. He wrote most of Soft Machine's 1969/70 songs (Moon In June, Rivmic Melodies, the latter based in part on Hopper songs) during breaks in Soft Machine's touring schedule in 1968. The next period in which he wrote that much was 1972/73 after Matching Mole's breakup and then after his post-accident stay in hospital. He wrote very little for the next album, and then took years between albums anyway.

[per76]

It's a complex issue. On the one hand, the other members of Soft Machine did become reluctant to play songs, because they were more interested in improvising. That's not just Ratledge and Dean, also Hopper who was going through an almost anti-song phase. But on the other hand, Robert stopped coming up with new songs, perhaps because he anticipated that they would be rejected. There only was a brief window during which Soft Machine post-1969 worked on writing songs together, and that was very early on, when "Volume Two" was written and recorded. There was a strong Wyatt/Ratledge writing partnership which, regrettably, went no further, I guess simply because Wyatt and Ratledge no longer saw eye to eye musically. Whether Ratledge would have helped Wyatt write more songs had Wyatt come up with ideas and suggestions, is anyone's guess. But a major, and often ignored, factor is that Wyatt has never been a prolific songwriter. He wrote most of Soft Machine's 1969/70 songs (Moon In June, Rivmic Melodies, the latter based in part on Hopper songs) during breaks in Soft Machine's touring schedule in 1968. The next period in which he wrote that much was 1972/73 after Matching Mole's breakup and then after his post-accident stay in hospital. He wrote very little for the next album, and then took years between albums anyway.

Absolutely. Not a prolific songwriter but I feel he would have been interested in songs and capable of writing something for Fourth. I mean Moon In June is a long song or a interconnected series of songs. I feel had there been a desire to keep songs in the mix, Robert would have been happy to stay. So then he starts Matching Mole brings in Dave Sinclair presumably because he's into songs. But then he brings in Dave Macrae which makes it jazzy and improvising comes back. Fascinating.

Wyatt, Ratledge, Dean and Hopper didn't know what they had on Third and Fourth. But I guess you don't when you're there, in the thick of things.

[pb2015]

I get the sense Wyatt had a foot out the door by Fourth, as some of the articles said he had tried leaving the Softs for Kevin Ayers's group but returned as working with Ayers didn't turn out to be more satisying, and he made his first solo album around the same time. I would also guess he felt certain the other Softs wouldn't accept his songs.