Question? Who were the beginners of Prog?

[The Dark Elf]

Indeed, Led Zepp were an English 'Rock' band that being best at brought the bluesier side of hippy mysticism. But please take a breath of fresh air from Beggar's Farm and tell me that early JT weren't 'progressive' because they were heavily inspired by blues music...

Really though, in order for Ian and Tull to progress past the Cream/Mayall blues blueprint, a split with Mick Abraham was necessary (and Mick went on to continue those blues stylings with Blodwyn Pig). The album Stand Up (1969) is radically different from This Was, presenting perhaps one the greatest transitions of a major Brit band from one album to the next. The blues that remains is much grander and heavier with "A New Day Yesterday" (very heavy, perhaps a residual effect of Tony Iommi's brief stay) and "Nothing Is Easy" (a blues composition with jazz chording and one of the finest outros of the time).

But the intriguing aspects of Stand Up are the build up of progressive traits that would become more pronounced as Tull gained steam and come to full flower in later efforts like Aqualung, Thick as a Brick, A Passion Play, etc.: of course, the use of classical and jazz elements (see "Bourée") and the introduction of string sections which became ubiquitous in Tull compositions through the band's long relationship with David (Dee) Palmer, which would include the fully prog "Sweet Dream" from the same era; the chiaroscuro of light and dark, heavy and light, electric and acoustic that was to become a Tull trademark; the use of folk elements and instrumentation as found in "Fat Man", "Look Into the Sun", "Jeffrey Goes to Leicester Square" (with its faintly medieval guitar chording), "Reasons for Waiting", and "Witch's Promise" from the same era; and the final building block being the inclusion of keyboardist John Evan shortly after the sessions for the album concluded, giving Tull the orchestral and prog clout for their live performances.

[Monet]

Really though, in order for Ian and Tull to progress past the Cream/Mayall blues blueprint, a split with Mick Abraham was necessary (and Mick went on to continue those blues stylings with Blodwyn Pig). The album Stand Up (1969) is radically different from This Was, presenting perhaps one the greatest transitions of a major Brit band from one album to the next. The blues that remains is much grander and heavier with "A New Day Yesterday" (very heavy, perhaps a residual effect of Tony Iommi's brief stay) and "Nothing Is Easy" (a blues composition with jazz chording and one of the finest outros of the time).

But the intriguing aspects of Stand Up are the build up of progressive traits that would become more pronounced as Tull gained steam and come to full flower in later efforts like Aqualung, Thick as a Brick, A Passion Play, etc.: of course, the use of classical and jazz elements (see "Bourée") and the introduction of string sections which became ubiquitous in Tull compositions through the band's long relationship with David (Dee) Palmer, which would include the fully prog "Sweet Dream" from the same era; the chiaroscuro of light and dark, heavy and light, electric and acoustic that was to become a Tull trademark; the use of folk elements and instrumentation as found in "Fat Man", "Look Into the Sun", "Jeffrey Goes to Leicester Square" (with its faintly medieval guitar chording), "Reasons for Waiting", and "Witch's Promise" from the same era; and the final building block being the inclusion of keyboardist John Evan shortly after the sessions for the album concluded, giving Tull the orchestral and prog clout for their live performances.

Exactly! Well, Mike Barnes certainly didn't accidentally name his book about the original British Progressive Rock movement after the JT song which you mentioned above. (@Illuvatar, this is a must read)

Mike-Barnes-A-New-Day-Yesterday.jpg



And JT deserves it.

Jethro Tull "One for John Gee" 1968

[Vic2012]

Check this out. Came across it on YT. It's proto-heavy, doom prog. with proggy Hammond all over it.

[The Dark Elf]

Check this out. Came across it on YT. It's proto-heavy, doom prog. with proggy Hammond all over it.

Sort of in the early Uriah Heep/Deep Purple vein with some very pronounced Sabbath riffs here and there, and an undeniable influence on Spinal Tap ("Aries").

[moecurlythanu]

^ Not a hidden artifact, guys, Been known for decades. But is as you've described.

[Monet]

Sort of in the early Uriah Heep/Deep Purple vein

This


The Gods "Looking Glass" 1968





The Gods "I Never Knew" 1968

[Monet]

Certainly an outstanding "fully-fledged prog".


Caravan "Where but for Caravan Would I?" 1968

[Iluvatar]

Sort of in the early Uriah Heep/Deep Purple vein with some very pronounced Sabbath riffs here and there, and an undeniable influence on Spinal Tap ("Aries").

Monsieur Dark Elf:

Hit a nerve.

1) Thanks for all the posters throwing up all those great songs! I have put them on my buy list! They were really great, Gawd! I love the late `60s! So much creativity! I am gonna be doing research now for the next 2 months. The cup spilleth over!

2) Books that are on order (already), @ the suggestion of Dana(5140): (P.S. Magma's 1st 4 are also on order!!)
- A New Day Yesterday: Mike Barnes
- The Strawberry Bricks Guide to Prog Rock: Charles Snider
- The Show that Never Ends: David Weigel
- Wondrous Stories: Jerry Ewing

3) To Dark? Don't you find that lyric absolutely funny? (Off of A Passion Play) Who calls their horse "George"? And in her geography class - no less! Bosh!

4) Unfortunately, I only have 8 albums by Jethro - crud... I love their earlier stuff ("Stand", "Thick", and "Benefit" (Teacher)) as well as "Minstrel", "Aqua", "War Child". But my fav of ALL TIME remains "A Passion Play". I've had it in the car now for 3 years (and counting). Never tire of it. Crap! Forgot "Songs From the Wood". Ian took no prisoners on that album...

5) When was the last time you heard the word "Pict"? Me? Pink Floyd "Ummagumma". Heard they were grooving in a cave. I guess.

6) Does moecurlythanu know everything in the dang world? What is up with that? He probably even listened to Bo Hansson's "Lord of the Rings"! Holy cow! How do get that knowledgeable?

7) Uriah & Argent (and no! it ain't the Zombies!) Few cuts. You only get to post 3 vid clips/message.

Prenez-soin...

[Shadow]

[Iluvatar]

@Shadow: “NEVER UNDERESTIMATE THE POWER OF STUPID PEOPLE IN LARGE GROUPS!”

Amen. Nor in small groups either, even groups of one… (i.e., me – sorry dude!)

I apologise! You are the 2nd poster to throw up GBO. I got them confused with Gram Parsons! DOH!

Do you realize who is on this band? It is the hit list of the best personnel of ALL time! Holy cow!

Blurb from Wiki: “
The Graham Bond Organisation (GBO) were a British jazz/rhythm and blues group of the early 1960s consisting of Graham Bond (vocals, keyboards, alto-saxophone), Jack Bruce (bass), Ginger Baker (drums), Dick Heckstall-Smith (tenor/soprano saxophone) and John McLaughlin (guitar). They recorded several albums and further recordings were issued when the group's members achieved fame in progressive rock and jazz fusion. The spelling of the band's original name varied between releases, often depending on the intended audience. The British English spelled as "Organisation" or "ORGANisation" (Bond's original plan), while in some other countries outside the UK spelled "Organization". “

So let’s see, hummmmm….
Jack Bruce? Peter Ginger Baker? John?? Dude this is a total crush! Mahavishnu would turn in his grave! And what would Eric do without them? Reading this list of members is like reading who played with Miles Davis on “Bitches Brew”! Holy cow!
Thanks for the gift.

To return the favor: something old, something old, and something newer (gawd! I love Steve!):

Barclay James off their 1st:


Maha:
(oh, btw, the folks playing here? Through the dang roof! John, Billy, Jan????)


(Do you know? Billy Cobham was one of the first drummers to play “open-handed”? He rarely crossed his arms to play drums – hands straight out on either side. Dude was from Panama.) (Jeff Beck and Jan teamed up with a duo effort which is superb – right here: oooops next slide please….
(this would be more that the 3 video clip limit – sorry. On top of that, Billy’s 2 solo albums: “Spectrum” and “Crosswinds” are spectacular. But! That would be Jazz Fusion – verboten!!!)


Peace,
…

[Iluvatar]

@Shadow: “NEVER UNDERESTIMATE THE POWER OF STUPID PEOPLE IN LARGE GROUPS!”

Amen. Nor in small groups either, even groups of one… (i.e., me – sorry dude!)

I apologise! You are the 2nd poster to throw up GBO. I got them confused with Gram Parsons! DOH!

Do you realize who is on this band? It is the hit list of the best personnel of ALL time! Holy cow!

Blurb from Wiki: “
The Graham Bond Organisation (GBO) were a British jazz/rhythm and blues group of the early 1960s consisting of Graham Bond (vocals, keyboards, alto-saxophone), Jack Bruce (bass), Ginger Baker (drums), Dick Heckstall-Smith (tenor/soprano saxophone) and John McLaughlin (guitar). They recorded several albums and further recordings were issued when the group's members achieved fame in progressive rock and jazz fusion. The spelling of the band's original name varied between releases, often depending on the intended audience. The British English spelled as "Organisation" or "ORGANisation" (Bond's original plan), while in some other countries outside the UK spelled "Organization". “

So let’s see, hummmmm….
Jack Bruce? Peter Ginger Baker? John?? Dude this is a total crush! Mahavishnu would turn in his grave! And what would Eric do without them? Reading this list of members is like reading who played with Miles Davis on “Bitches Brew”! Holy cow!
Thanks for the gift.

To return the favor: something old, something old, and something newer (gawd! I love Steve!):

Barclay James off their 1st:


Maha:
(oh, btw, the folks playing here? Through the dang roof! John, Billy, Jan????)


(Do you know? Billy Cobham was one of the first drummers to play “open-handed”? He rarely crossed his arms to play drums – hands straight out on either side. Dude was from Panama.) (Jeff Beck and Jan teamed up with a duo effort which is superb – right here: oooops next slide please….
(this would be more that the 3 video clip limit – sorry. On top of that, Billy’s 2 solo albums: “Spectrum” and “Crosswinds” are spectacular. But! That would be Jazz Fusion – verboten!!!)


Peace,
…

Issues with posts, attend:

Steve: (off of his 1st solo)

[Iluvatar]

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Aw, what the heck! I will probably be banned from this website for throwing up so much crap!

But before I do get banned? I want to thank all the people who put forth their suggestions and their knowledge! You guys totally rock! Thank-you very much; it was difficult for me to return the favor – I am not that knowledgeable in Prog Rock.


`Fore I get banned, wanted to leave you 2-3 others:




I am a total sucker for those Aussie bands (I oh so much want to sing Mark’s voice!):

(they were right next to my Uriah Heep stash, it’s a retrieval issue…) (it’s good to back home…)

If this is “bye, see ya!”
See ya’!

[Rajaz]

About the beginnings of prog, yesterday I read an article on Prog magazine about which albums came before King Crimson's "In the Court of the Crimson King" (1969) suggesting The Nice "Ars Longa Vita Brevis", Procol Harum "In held twas I" (both from 1968) or as far back to mention The Moody Blues "Days of Future Past" (1967) as the progenitor of them all.

I am not so familiar with the early Nice or Procol Harum LPs as I am with the Moody Blues classic album that does have many firsts of it's kind like the concept album with an orchestra and the extensive use of mellotron. Very good observations before King Crimson, indeed.

[Piskie]

Of course the answer should have been Smile.

[psilocyberguy]

Absolutely no doubt to me the beginning of prog was birthed by the older avant-garde composers Igor Stravinsky, Arnold Schoenberg, and Edgard Varese among others.

[Grigoriy]

Question? Who were the beginners of Prog? ------------- First name, that comes to mind, is The Nice. Their second album in particular, that contains Ars Longa Vita Brevis symphony. Procol Harum, with their second LP, Giles, Giles and Fripp Cheerful Insanity, and Soft Machine debut.

[BravadoNJ]

when i think about the origin of progressive rock,
i go back to the age of classical music of the 18th & 19th century.
the great composers taking music to a new levels.
thinking outside the box is what history is all about.
it's the same big ideas, just different instruments.

[Iluvatar]

Absolutely no doubt to me the beginning of prog was birthed by the older avant-garde composers Igor Stravinsky, Arnold Schoenberg, and Edgard Varese among others.

Amen brother: Here is Igor “Rite of Spring” – totally superb!

(Did you see the earlier post about Rebel & Ravel???)
http://<a href="https://www.youtube....kwqPJZe8ms</a>

c'est superbe!

And to awaken you brothers? Just `cause we live in the deep south? Don’t mean we’re idiots! We may not be real knowledgeable, BUT! We ain’t stoooooopid! C’mon! Fess up hoss!

And now for the best 5 octave singer in the 20th century: Annie (I would have married that woman in a heartbeat!!!) Do you find any footprint of Classical music herein???? None??? Really???
(She now lives in PA and paints; I would still marry her! I don’t care if her voice is done! I would still marry her today! She is so hot!)





And now, somethin’ from the Deep South: (Dude is English, then Canadian) Guess who played on this album? Sir Elton John and Rod Stewart! The story behind this song is very long. The dude who wrote it later died of cancer – real long story (I think his name was Cyril Davies). Tant pis (je pleure). But it resonates here in the deep South (fo’ sho’!):






(It ain’t easy – ya got yo’ problems – that ain’t no dang news!)

Peace, (still, Genre sigh…)

[Iluvatar]

Amen brother: Here is Igor “Rite of Spring” – totally superb!

(Did you see the earlier post about Rebel & Ravel???)
http://<a href="https://www.youtube....kwqPJZe8ms</a>

c'est superbe!

And to awaken you brothers? Just `cause we live in the deep south? Don’t mean we’re idiots! We may not be real knowledgeable, BUT! We ain’t stoooooopid! C’mon! Fess up hoss!

And now for the best 5 octave singer in the 20th century: Annie (I would have married that woman in a heartbeat!!!) Do you find any footprint of Classical music herein???? None??? Really???
(She now lives in PA and paints; I would still marry her! I don’t care if her voice is done! I would still marry her today! She is so hot!)





And now, somethin’ from the Deep South: (Dude is English, then Canadian) Guess who played on this album? Sir Elton John and Rod Stewart! The story behind this song is very long. The dude who wrote it later died of cancer – real long story (I think his name was Cyril Davies). Tant pis (je pleure). But it resonates here in the deep South (fo’ sho’!):






(It ain’t easy – ya got yo’ problems – that ain’t no dang news!)

Peace, (still, Genre sigh…)

http://<a href="https://www.youtube....kwqPJZe8ms</a>

[Iluvatar]

Amen brother: Here is Igor “Rite of Spring” – totally superb!

(Did you see the earlier post about Rebel & Ravel???)
http://<a href="https://www.youtube....kwqPJZe8ms</a>

c'est superbe!

And to awaken you brothers? Just `cause we live in the deep south? Don’t mean we’re idiots! We may not be real knowledgeable, BUT! We ain’t stoooooopid! C’mon! Fess up hoss!

And now for the best 5 octave singer in the 20th century: Annie (I would have married that woman in a heartbeat!!!) Do you find any footprint of Classical music herein???? None??? Really???
(She now lives in PA and paints; I would still marry her! I don’t care if her voice is done! I would still marry her today! She is so hot!)





And now, somethin’ from the Deep South: (Dude is English, then Canadian) Guess who played on this album? Sir Elton John and Rod Stewart! The story behind this song is very long. The dude who wrote it later died of cancer – real long story (I think his name was Cyril Davies). Tant pis (je pleure). But it resonates here in the deep South (fo’ sho’!):






(It ain’t easy – ya got yo’ problems – that ain’t no dang news!)

Peace, (still, Genre sigh…)

Dad nab it! here is Igor's opus!

[psilocyberguy]

https://youtu.be/0XyTWt82XQM

[Monet]

Blurb from Wiki: “
The Graham Bond Organisation (GBO) were a British jazz/rhythm and blues group of the early 1960s consisting of Graham Bond (vocals, keyboards, alto-saxophone), Jack Bruce (bass), Ginger Baker (drums), Dick Heckstall-Smith (tenor/soprano saxophone) and John McLaughlin (guitar). They recorded several albums and further recordings were issued when the group's members achieved fame in progressive rock and jazz fusion. The spelling of the band's original name varied between releases, often depending on the intended audience. The British English spelled as "Organisation" or "ORGANisation" (Bond's original plan), while in some other countries outside the UK spelled "Organization". “

So let’s see, hummmmm….
Jack Bruce? Peter Ginger Baker? John?? Dude this is a total crush! Mahavishnu would turn in his grave! And what would Eric do without them? Reading this list of members is like reading who played with Miles Davis on “Bitches Brew”! Holy cow!
Thanks for the gift.

To return the favor: something old, something old, and something newer (gawd! I love Steve!):

Barclay James off their 1st:

Maha:
(oh, btw, the folks playing here? Through the dang roof! John, Billy, Jan????)


(Do you know? Billy Cobham was one of the first drummers to play “open-handed”? He rarely crossed his arms to play drums – hands straight out on either side. Dude was from Panama.) (Jeff Beck and Jan teamed up with a duo effort which is superb – right here: oooops next slide please….
(this would be more that the 3 video clip limit – sorry. On top of that, Billy’s 2 solo albums: “Spectrum” and “Crosswinds” are spectacular. But! That would be Jazz Fusion – verboten!!!)


Peace,
…

Regarding the jazz-rock genre, which was so popular in the 1970s and which is experiencing a kind of renaissance in recent years, I'd like to say here that the importance of Allan Holdsworth's first band 'Igginbottom is often overlooked by historians. Their only album, "'Igginbottom's Wrench", was released in 1969 and clearly defines the difference between British jazz-rock and Miles Davis-style jazz fusion from the late 1960s and early 1970s.


'Igginbottom "Golden Lakes" 1969






'Igginbottom "Not So Sweet Dreams" 1969

[Iluvatar]

@Monet/Manet/Matisse (sorry, confused?)

(Let me see if I can do this w/o serious errors!)

Thanks for the gift. It was awesome. (I called it Jazz – but! I dunno genres! Just a STOOOOPID guy living in the deep south!)

As regards, Allan, I liked him on Gong “Gazeuse!”
Your take? Was he a better influence on the band than Pierre?

But one thing is for sure! He took no prisoners on UK’s first album. No prisoners. Neither did Eddie.
He has a total signature sound on the guitar. Like Brian May.

Returning the gift: (but ONLY if I can figure out how to drop video clips into the dang box w/o screwing up!)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2NEH3UCXklg




https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3QW0P9TqZyI



`Nuther note. I think we are on the watch list. I may take a blow about splattering up so much YT videos. SS may get past the “Point of Know Return”.

But here is another teaser – this stuff is real good: “GO”: (Steve (Traffic), Mike (Carlos), and Al (RTF) are on it)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g53zcpaXT8o

[Monet]

As regards, Allan, I liked him on Gong “Gazeuse!”
Your take? Was he a better influence on the band than Pierre?

But one thing is for sure! He took no prisoners on UK’s first album. No prisoners. Neither did Eddie.
He has a total signature sound on the guitar. Like Brian May.

Speaking of the fathers of fusion, we must not bypass Larry.


Larry Coryell "Morning Sickness" 1969

[Dana5140]

I will just say I saw Annie Haslam with Renaissance do "Ashes are Burning" in Chicago and she held that note at the end for what seemed eternity and it brought the entire crowd to its feet in ecstasy. Probably the most amazing vocal performance I have ever seen.