Frank Zappa: Which 5 albums to get first?

[Progbear]

A bold claim, but mainly an ironic claim. I was defending his 60's work which gets a lot of indifference in this thread.

Absolutely Free, WOIIFTM and Uncle Meat are three of my favorites from him. Unlike later, his satire was on point, plus this was the height of “absurdist” Zappa, which makes me laugh a lot more than the crass sex and toilet jokes (I love Monty Python and detest Family Guy, so I guess that makes sense). Plus, I think the whole “hyperactive cartoon orchestra” sound he developed during this time was extremely appealing, and totally unique. I am especially glad to have Uncle Meat in my life. With the possible exception of Hot Rats, I don’t think it’s been bettered in his catalogue.

I then put on Trout Mask and he left.

I no longer own TMR, having decided I’ll never get into it, and why bother owning something you don’t enjoy? I am thinking it might be handy to have around though, because the album does have its uses: namely getting people to leave. Then again, I still own The Art of Walking, which also is a dandy use for just such an occasion.

[Trane]

Aside from the crazy scored shit in Inca Roads, the musical complexity level of this album (as far as FZ albums go) is actually on the medium-low side for technicality imo. Not that doesn't have intricate and subtle complexity, because it does, but it's sort of understated in that way. These are just a bunch of good-to-great songs. I can see why prog fans dig it. There many FZ albums that I like more though.

Your review covers me completely. Apart from Inca Roads, I don't see anything that speaks in favor of a masterpiece. I even prefer Apostrophe, with its much clearer song-orientation. Maybe the flow of the album doesn't work for me as it does in records like Burnt Weeny Sandwich.

Of course, it's still a damn good record.

Actually I don't own the album anymore and neither do I of most of his post-Wazoo 70's albums (with the notable exception of Sleep Dirt) stopping at Garage (I mostly don't care for what comes after), but I did save Inca Roads (the only one with Po-Jama from that same album) one two CD-r compilations I made some 20 years ago, but I must admit that I've actually haven't spinned them compilations much since I burned them, because I'm not really happy about the result (not easy to compile Zappa tracks intelligently).

While I loved from Sensation and later albums back thern, but heard them more often than I care to remember, I must say that all that era (which I'll call his "teenage smutt" era), I don't miss it much and if I never hear it again, it'll be fine with me... But then again I still have those two homemade comps, should that scratch an itch, Ive still got them.

A bold claim, but mainly an ironic claim. I was defending his 60's work which gets a lot of indifference in this thread.

Yup, and I'm a culprit at that, while I respect that huge satyrical work, I was never in the right frame of mind to dig (or even understand ) much of it.

Soooo, this could appear bizarre, but, outside those two comps mentionned above, all of what I still own from Zappa's album is from Hot Rats until Wazoo - both included - (Meat, Weeny, Weasels, Chunga and Jawaka).... and Sleep Dirt (HR3)... And I'm even considering unloading Meat, Weeny, Ghunga & Weasels - after compiling them in CD-r.

[Zappathustra]

OMG, haven't you heard Pain of Salvation? And you call yourself a progressive rock fan?

Too Painful to listen, and I was already beyond Salvation.

[Zappathustra]

Well, the original poster was looking for records to get started on and I think he picked up a good starter sampling. I think the early-mid 70's stuff is easier to get into than some of the 60's stuff. When I first started getting into Zappa as a teen, I couldn't handle the early stuff at all. It was just too "Bizzare" to get my ears arouund. Later, I came to love some of that material, particularly Uncle Meat. I just wouldn't start there. The quality of the musicianship, to my ears, really perked up starting around the time of Hot Rats and then with the addition of the Fowlers, Duke, Brock, Ruth U., Thompson/Humphrey etc. It seemed that in the 60's, Zappa was having a hard time finding musicians that could execute his work. Just my take. The records Hot Rats, Grand Wazoo, Overnite Sensation, Apostrophe, Roxy, and One Size Fits All just seem more likely to appeal to the general prog listener than some of the other stuff. That's just me, though. Some folks like to dive right into the deep end of the pool.

I more or less agree. I also suggested mostly 70's stuff. But in the space of 5 albums, at least one has to be coming fron the Mothers eera.

[Sturgeon's Lawyer]

I wonder what it is so many people have against "Billy the Mountain". To me, it's one of Zappa's finest toons - or, rather, it contains several of them.

[chalkpie]

I wonder what it is so many people have against "Billy the Mountain". To me, it's one of Zappa's finest toons - or, rather, it contains several of them.

I have always loved it. When I was in a FZ cover band, we used to cover the 'Studebaker Hoch' section taken from the Playground Psychotics show (whenever the F that was?). I think it boils down to whether one is a fan of Flo/Eddie or not, although who knows? To me it's the "Greggery Peccary" of that era

The Wiki entry has a bunch of information on the piece that I never knew.....worth checking out for fans > https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Billy_the_Mountain

[Taped Rugs]

<we used to cover the 'Studebaker Hoch' section >

My admiration to you Chalkpie. Whatever anyone's view of the "lyrical" content, Billy The Mountain is a very complex composition, loaded with split-second time changes, complex vocal harmonies, and musical notation that would take a lot of practice for the average rock ensemble to perform with any degree of success. I'm guessing that some Zappa fans out there have attempted to cover the entire piece note-for-note, but I've never heard nor seen such a thing myself.

[Progatron]

For me, it's more about the annoying nature of Flo & Eddie and the way they sang those words, rather than what the words themselves are. The section where they are listing the California cities is intolerable IMO. And as mentioned, the numerous Tonight Show theme music bits, Suite Judy Blue Eyes, etc. just bug me after a while. I'm approaching 100 Zappa titles in my collection and aside from a few doo-wop pieces and some of Thing-Fish, Billy The Mountain is about the only other thing I skip over.

That's not to say it doesn't have some great bits of music in it - it does, of course. But I'm just not a fan of it overall... you can't argue taste.

[Zappathustra]

I like Billy the Mountain a lot - although it's not one of my Zappa favorites. It's not consistent enough in my opinion - add to that the problem of understanding all this bunch of words, at least for a non native-speaker. Still there are moments of fantastic creativity. And when I say moments, I don't mean moments, I mean great parts of it.

I can understand some of the Flo&Eddie rejection: maybe some of it went too far, at least in albums like Filmore.

[aith01]

I then put on Trout Mask and he left.

Best closing sentence I've seen in a long time.

[aith01]

Second and last paragraphs - true. First one - I'm not so sure. It's certainly one of his "easier" records and definitely a point beyond Overnite and Apost where he went out of his way to create a merger of hte pop/art-rock and the "serious" sensibilities, brilliantly achieved in "Inca Roads" but, Yeah, somewhat flawed in other corners. The other track I really dig on this is "Andy".

Up to the standards of Waka Wazoo or Weeny? No, but little ever was. I'd probably even rate Overnite higher; a more consistent "corny art-rock/pop" work. Yet it was a wonderful experience to bring that bastard S.O.B. back home and spin it for the first time in 18 years. NOT anywhere near a perfect album, but damn good nonetheless.

OSFA is definitely not perfect, I'd agree. And compositionally nowhere near the heights of Waka Jawaka or Grand Wazoo -- I still haven't heard Burnt Weeny Sandwich.

But "Andy" is one of my favorite tracks from OSFA. Man, George Duke was so awesome on this album. His singing and playing were on fleek.

[Mascodagama]

Back in the 90s I had a friend who was an active part of the ongoing, infamous black-metal scene in Bergen. He said that he'd strived to create scary music for as long as he could remember, but couldn't really "hit it" with his own branch of overt (purported) darkness. I remember having him over for a soaree and playing him The United States of America and The Residents, both of which scared the shit out of him - and then moving onto further freakish avant-garde stuff. He claimed that "50/50" was an utterly frightening song because you can't make out the mental state of the vocalist - and whether the latter is intendedly bizarre or simply an out-of-control bonafide moron. I proceeded to tell him the story of Ricky Lancelotti, and he was even more disturbed by that.

I then put on Trout Mask and he left.

I'm still chuckling over your story of local black-metallers drinking Guinness even though they didn't like it - because it was black, therefore more evil than regular beer.

Burzum is one thing, but for music that will really evacuate your bowels a some prime Art Zoyd at max volume will do the job. Or Musik Aus Dem Schattenpants.

[thedunno]

Frank Zappa- Hot Rats

I heared Hot rats about 5 times last week . Time to post a few comments.

It is the first Zappa album I listened to even but immediately I recognized the first tune, Peaches en Regelia, without being able to remember where I heared it. After a bit of googling i saw that Dixie Dregs covered it on California screaming. Been ages since i played that album. Anyway I absolutely love this tune and I can now see how stuff like this might have influenced my beloved Cardiacs.

When I heared Willie the Pimp for the first time my initial reaction was just: shees, that solo is long! After a couple of plays I absolutely love it.

My favorite tune on the album is probably Son of Mr. green. Another long solo at the end but I love how he constantly put variations on the main theme in the solo. Great stuff so far!

Little umbrellas is a more relaxed and composed instrumental. Love the double bass but overall not as good as peaches en regalia.

The gumbo variations starts off great with energetic funky playing and great sax. Towards the end I notice that my own tolerance to long soloing starts to diminish a little bit.

It must be a camel is the most complex piece of the album. I think it is very interesting but maybe lacks a bit of the flow that 'Peaches en Regalia' does have.

Overall my first Zappa Album certainly did not disappoint. Especially the first half of the album is complete bliss. It is somehow a lot more accessibel stuff then I expected it to be.

Next week assignment: uncle Meat.

[aith01]

^ Glad to hear you enjoyed it! Peaches en Regalia is one of my favorite pieces. I agree about the influence on Cardiacs too.

Uncle Meat is next, eh? Can’t wait to hear your thoughts on it. It’s an interesting one.

[MudShark22]

I like Billy the Mountain a lot - although it's not one of my Zappa favorites. It's not consistent enough in my opinion - add to that the problem of understanding all this bunch of words, at least for a non native-speaker. Still there are moments of fantastic creativity. And when I say moments, I don't mean moments, I mean great parts of it.

I can understand some of the Flo&Eddie rejection: maybe some of it went too far, at least in albums like Filmore.

IMO - anyone who loves Zappa's 'locker room talk' from his latter 70s forward discs and dislikes Flo n Eddie....well, it seems 'unpossible' to quote R. Wiggum.

Though I can absolutely see liking Flo n Eddie and not liking things like Dinah...et al.

Re: BtM from Playground...That is Filmore East.
You can hear FZ call back to that show on Carnegie before they launch into it...

[StarThrower]

Anybody else listening to the Orchestral Favorites set? The sound and resolution on the studio disc is pretty remarkable.

s-l300.jpg

[chalkpie]

Anybody else listening to the Orchestral Favorites set? The sound and resolution on the studio disc is pretty remarkable.

Agreed. Impeccable engineering - some of his best imo.

[aith01]

Anybody else listening to the Orchestral Favorites set? The sound and resolution on the studio disc is pretty remarkable.

s-l300.jpg

Darn it, I forgot I have that! I need to give it a spin, pronto.

[Progatron]

The Orchestral Favorites set is fantastic!

Man, I spun disc 3 of Lumpy Money yesterday again. What a gem that one is. That one and Meat Light are two of the best project releases IMO.

[StarThrower]

Agreed. Impeccable engineering - some of his best imo.

Bogus Pomp sounds so good! The clarity of the percussion instruments feels like I'm right in the room. This is one of my favorite FZ compositions. All the different sounds and styles so beautifully integrated in this colorful piece.

[JJ88]

Most of his albums in their original form sounded great. Not sure why he tampered with them for CD (even the ones he just added reverb to). I'd first become familiar with the original Hot Rats on record and when I first heard the remixed CD, I was startled, to say the least. I wonder how people who'd known the album for decades felt! And that's not even a *bad* remix. It just sounds very different from the original.

[chalkpie]

Most of his albums in their original form sounded great. Not sure why he tampered with them for CD (even the ones he just added reverb to). I'd first become familiar with the original Hot Rats on record and when I first heard the remixed CD, I was startled, to say the least. I wonder how people who'd known the album for decades felt! And that's not even a *bad* remix. It just sounds very different from the original.

I think both are valid for that one. 'Money' not so much.

[profusion]

It is somehow a lot more accessibel stuff then I expected it to be.

Next week assignment: uncle Meat.

Uncle Meat is not as accessible as Hot Rats, but it's a much more complete package of all of Frank's different musical personalities.

I've read that Frank was looking at various ideas for releasing music from the last expanded incarnation of the classic Mothers band, including a 12-LP set that would included material released on several later albums from 1969-71. He settled on Uncle Meat as a 2-LP set.

For me, Uncle Meat is the first of his vocal band albums where I feel like Frank's band is a match for his musical ideas. The earlier Mothers albums are classics, but they all had kind of a garage rock thing going on that isn't as interesting to me.

One warning--the CD release of this is not quite the same as the LP release.

For reasons known only to himself, Frank retooled this album for its initial CD release in the '80s, and he split up the later part of the original running order with two unlistenable things: first, a 1982 song, "Tengo Na Minchia Tanta", sung (badly) by some random Italian guy, and then a 40-minute excerpt of pointless dialogue from the Uncle Meat movie that wasn't released until 1987. If he'd just stuck these at the end, they'd have been mild curiosities, but he put them *before* the King Kong suite that was Side 4 of the original album.

The original mix and running order have been restored on the Meat Light release by the Zappa archive a few years. When I got Meat Light I ended up selling my CD copy of Uncle Meat.

[JJ88]

I think both are valid for that one. 'Money' not so much.

Agreed- the 80s Hot Rats is like a 'directors cut' of sorts. At least he didn't foul it up with crappy 80s sounds.

[Zeuhlmate]

Most of his albums in their original form sounded great. Not sure why he tampered with them for CD (even the ones he just added reverb to). I'd first become familiar with the original Hot Rats on record and when I first heard the remixed CD, I was startled, to say the least. I wonder how people who'd known the album for decades felt! And that's not even a *bad* remix. It just sounds very different from the original.

If I remember correct, the first CD-versions were horrible, and he remixed some, and added new bass because the original basstracks were bad somehow - but it has been done several times, so watch out for versions.