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Thread: Who wrote Video Killed the Radio Star?

  1. #1
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    Who wrote Video Killed the Radio Star?

    An interesting new interview with co-writer Bruce Woolley followed up by a response from Geoff Downes:

    Woolley:
    Trevor and I had written two songs, “Clean Clean” and “Video Killed the Radio Star,” and Geoff Downes came in to help us arrange those songs. Now, this is all semantics and terminology, but Geoff didn’t really write either of those songs. Trevor and I wrote them around a piano, and with guitars and a bass – you know, here’s the song, this is the words, this is the chords, this is the tune, and so on. Geoff came in and did some really significant arrangements, and so Trevor and Geoff sat me down one night and said, “Look, Geoff has done these parts for these songs, I think we should cut him into the songwriting.” Trevor and Geoff were really a team by this point (they later emerged as Art of Noise, one of the major production teams of the 1980s), and they were trying to get a deal with Island Records, and it would help them if they had that credit so it looked like they were the creative team. So I said, “Let’s face it Trevor, Geoff hasn’t really written these songs, you and I have, but maybe there is a case for giving Geoff some share of this.” So we came up with this solution: instead of splitting it three ways, we decided to do one song 50/50, and the other song three ways. In order to make the decision about which of the two songs to split which way, we had to toss a coin. I was fortunate enough to get the heads, and so I got the 50 percent of “Video,” and we split “Clean Clean” three ways. I’ve never contested any of that and neither has anyone else. It seemed to be a fair balance in the scheme of things. All of us have done sufficiently well enough since then with our other projects that none of us have ever worried about it or contested any of this, which is quite nice. We are all still pretty good friends, which is more than you can say about a lot of guys who have known each other for 40 years (laughs).

    Downes (from his Twitter posts):
    Poor old Bruce Woolley seems to have forgotten that I wrote the entire intro, bridge and instrumental sections single-handedly, on top of the key ‘You Are A Radio Star’ melody, as well as the operatic lines and in fact every single melodic counterpart in the song (which he partially used in his less-than-average version). It should have been a 3-way split, and he’s a very lucky bunny he got 50% and we made him so much money!
    In fact, truth be told, Trevor and Bruce had 2 verses and a chorus on VKTRS. That was it, before they brought it to me. A very trite undistinguished pop song as it stood tbh. That was the reason why Bruce’s version stiffed like a board. I personally turned it into an epic with all the musical additions for The Buggles. As I said before, Woolley was one lucky f**ker we did that version. Bought his house in Surrey etc etc and he got 50% whereas me and Trev had splits on the other half. #happydaysforhimnotsoforus PS I’m not bitter about it. Just wish he might recognise the truth.


    And when someone asked Geoff "Is saying BW had "a long and rather spectacular history as a performer, producer, and songwriter" a bit overstated?", Downes replied: It’s not in my interest to comment on that. But what I can tell you is, it was entirely from the arduous endeavours by me and my management team a few years ago, multiple negotiations with lawyers, publishers and collection agencies that enabled him to reclaim his share of the copyright of “Video” under the US Recapture Laws. You’d think he owed me one for that alone.



    The author of the article/interview claims that Woolley's version "is quite a bit more rocking"

  2. #2
    Member rcarlberg's Avatar
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    "I personally turned it into an epic," he said modestly. Downes sounds like a 1st class ass.

  3. #3
    File this under: Geoff Downes is angry about something -- again.
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  4. #4
    Studmuffin Scott Bails's Avatar
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    I guess we now need Trevor Horn's version.
    Music isn't about chops, or even about talent - it's about sound and the way that sound communicates to people. Mike Keneally

  5. #5
    Didn't Steven Wilson write it? It's pop, after all.

  6. #6
    Member Paulrus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Geoff Downes
    PS I’m not bitter about it.
    I'm holding out for the Wilson-mixed 5.1 super-duper walletbuster special anniversary extra adjectives edition.

  7. #7
    What's fairly certain is that general interest in places like PE for a song like this would be just about nill were it not for that 'association'.

    But then again it was always about names themselves, wasn't it - not about the actual music.
    "Improvisation is not an excuse for musical laziness" - Fred Frith
    "[...] things that we never dreamed of doing in Crimson or in any band that I've been in," - Tony Levin speaking of SGM

  8. #8
    Ahh;, there's nothing more edifying than musicians griping about royalties.

    Quote Originally Posted by Scott Bails View Post
    I guess we now need Trevor Horn's version.
    I think Trevor's a 'keep a dignified silence' type of bloke.

  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by Scott Bails View Post
    I guess we now need Trevor Horn's version.
    Trevor would like to re record his version...

  10. #10
    Who cares? It's another one in a million of uninteresting pop songs...
    Macht das ohr auf!

    COSMIC EYE RECORDS

  11. #11
    It's a classic song, from its imagery to its arrangement. Contrary to Halmyre's reading, no-one here is disputing royalties. Horn has also told the story about flipping a coin re "VKtRS" and "Clean Clean". Woolley was undoubtedly lucky there.

    I don't see much that needs reconciling between Woolley's and Downes' accounts: Woolley focuses on the basic song because he did that bit (with Horn), Downes focuses on the bits around that because he did those bit. The listener can decide for themselves which parts are important to their enjoyment of the song. Listening to Woolley's recent version of the song with Polly Scattergood, I am sympathetic to Downes' version, as his parts of the Buggles version are an important component of the song for me.

    Downes continued the discussion on Twitter, discussing several classic pop songs and the importance of bridge sections, solos and arrangements within them. I found it an interesting discussion.

    Horn and Woolley are working on a musical called "The Robot Sings", based on "Video Killed the Radio Star" and more Ballardian dystopic SF.

    Henry
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  12. #12
    Quote Originally Posted by bondegezou View Post
    It's a classic song, from its imagery to its arrangement. Contrary to Halmyre's reading, no-one here is disputing royalties. Horn has also told the story about flipping a coin re "VKtRS" and "Clean Clean". Woolley was undoubtedly lucky there.

    I don't see much that needs reconciling between Woolley's and Downes' accounts: Woolley focuses on the basic song because he did that bit (with Horn), Downes focuses on the bits around that because he did those bit. The listener can decide for themselves which parts are important to their enjoyment of the song. Listening to Woolley's recent version of the song with Polly Scattergood, I am sympathetic to Downes' version, as his parts of the Buggles version are an important component of the song for me.

    Downes continued the discussion on Twitter, discussing several classic pop songs and the importance of bridge sections, solos and arrangements within them. I found it an interesting discussion.

    Horn and Woolley are working on a musical called "The Robot Sings", based on "Video Killed the Radio Star" and more Ballardian dystopic SF.

    Henry
    Judging from the Bruce Wooley and the Camera Club version, I prefer the version the Buggles did. So to me Geoff Downs additions make the song stand out. But to each their own.

  13. #13
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    Geoffrey Downes has been successful getting his name attached to songs. but i think it's in writing only. when you listen to the 2 different Asia bands, his name is credited for co-writer of the songs. but when you listen to John Wetton & John Payne's solo projects, the material is very similar to their songs with the band. ok, maybe he's been great at programming the keyboards to the songs. but i think it's very unlikely that we wrote any of the songs.

  14. #14
    LinkMan Chain's Avatar
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    Care Factor = Zero
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  15. #15
    Quote Originally Posted by BravadoNJ View Post
    Geoffrey Downes has been successful getting his name attached to songs. but i think it's in writing only. when you listen to the 2 different Asia bands, his name is credited for co-writer of the songs. but when you listen to John Wetton & John Payne's solo projects, the material is very similar to their songs with the band. ok, maybe he's been great at programming the keyboards to the songs. but i think it's very unlikely that we wrote any of the songs.
    That seems like a very bold conclusion based on some pretty subjective positions. I hear a clear Downes compositional thread running through his work with The Buggles, Yes, Asia, DBA and solo. Moreover, Wetton, Braide, Horn and others have all talked about the songwriting process with Downes. I don't see any doubt whatsoever that he is a prolific and successful composer.

    Wetton's solo work and the Wetton/Downes songs in Asia do sound similar, as you would expect given Wetton's on both, but they do not sound identical. Asia is full of keyboard riffs, unlike Wetton's solo work, which is more based around voice or guitar.

    Henry
    Where Are They Now? Yes news: http://www.bondegezou.co.uk/wh_now.htm
    Blogdegezou, the accompanying blog: http://bondegezou.blogspot.com/

  16. #16
    "We are all still pretty good friends,..."

    (And now, for the rest of the story...)

    "Poor old Bruce Woolley seems to have forgotten that I wrote the entire intro, bridge and instrumental sections single-handedly, on top of the key ‘You Are A Radio Star’ melody, as well as the operatic lines and in fact every single melodic counterpart in the song (which he partially used in his less-than-average version). It should have been a 3-way split, and he’s a very lucky bunny he got 50% and we made him so much money!"


  17. #17
    From my interview with John Wetton...

    "When I met Geoff Downes, my output kind of quadrupled because we got on so well. We come from the same kind of background, same musical background - every time we get together we write a song. So many people think the basis of Asia was Steve Howe and Carl Palmer. It was not. It was myself and Geoff Downes. It may have started off with me and Steve, but actually as soon as I met up with Geoff we started producing songs, which gave us the deal, which made it possible to record that album.͟͞"

    https://strawberrybricks.com/content...it-john-wetton
    "Always ready with the ray of sunshine"

  18. #18
    Sometimes I'd rather not know. Soils my fond memories. Radio Star dies...relatives fight over inheritance.

  19. #19
    Quote Originally Posted by bondegezou View Post
    It's a classic song, from its imagery to its arrangement. Contrary to Halmyre's reading, no-one here is disputing royalties. Horn has also told the story about flipping a coin re "VKtRS" and "Clean Clean". Woolley was undoubtedly lucky there.
    There might be no disputing, but there's still griping.

    But then, when is there never griping?

  20. #20
    Member moecurlythanu's Avatar
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    In other news, in what can only be called classic passive-aggressive behavior, Downes has been lobbying his Yes bandmates to add a cover version of "Wooly Bully" to the setlist on the current tour.

  21. #21
    NEARfest Officer Emeritus Nearfest2's Avatar
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    I'm waiting for YWTRS featuring Jon Davison on vocals.
    Chad

  22. #22
    Moderator Sean's Avatar
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    Anyone that is familiar with Asia's music can easily spot the bits of VKTRS that are Geoff's.

  23. #23
    Member TheH's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nearfest2 View Post
    I'm waiting for YWTRS featuring Jon Davison on vocals.
    You will get this with the epic album long version of the song on the next Yes Album

  24. #24
    Member Zeuhlmate's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Scrotum Scissor View Post
    What's fairly certain is that general interest in places like PE for a song like this would be just about nill were it not for that 'association'.

    But then again it was always about names themselves, wasn't it - not about the actual music.
    Grumpy old fart. I agree !

  25. #25
    OK, but who wrote Kid Dynamo? That was the B-side of the Video Killed... single and I always thought it was a better song.

    As for who wrote what on Video Killed..., it kinda sounds like Downes and Wooley are defining "songwriting" differently. Wooley admits he's mostly talking semantics, but my understanding is "songwriting" and "arranging" are two different things, and most people don't understand the difference. In this case, Geoff admits Wooley and Horn had "two verses and a chorus". OK, well, that's about 2/3's of the actual song. Geoff says he came up with the bridge, which would strike me as about 1/3 of the actual song. The rest of it, e.g. the intro, the "You are a radio star" melody (really? He thinks that constitutes a "key part" of the song? You only hear it in the coda, mate!), strikes me as "arranging".

    But this is perhaps an example of what Dr. Brian May was talking about when he said that songwriting is one of the reasons why bands break up. He used the example of Seven Seas Of Rye, which Freddie wrote, but Brian added an instrumental bit for the bridge, yet his name didn't appear in the byline, and I got the impression from his explanation that he was perturbed at the time.

    And of course, if one guy writes a song, and that's ends up being a hit, while the songs written by the other songwriting forces within the group aren't hits, that can cause a lot of tension. I suspect that was why, for example, I'm In Love With My Car (a Roger Taylor composition) ended up being the B-side of the Bohemian Rhapsody single, and also why John Deacon put his foot down and made it known that he wanted his song You're My Best Friend to be a single. That's also, from what I gather, the main reason why some bands credited all the songs to all the band members, as a sort of preemptive strike against such possible problems.

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