Peter Hammill - Over

[per anporth]

I'd be interested to know what folks around here think of this "notorious" solo lp by pH.

It's always been one that I have tended to overlook - my tastes incline towards the work that begins with The Future Now. But the NME thread, & the "discussion" of Nick Kent, reminded me of the review that he wrote of the record (which was falsely rumoured at the time to have been a Charisma label put-up job).

Anyway, I've been revisiting this record lately, & have got much more out of it in doing so than ever before.

I guess there's lots that could be discussed - from the experiment with orchestral strings on This Side of the Looking Glass, to the raw emotions which bolstered the impression of Hammill the Confessor... But for me, this time around, what has most struck me is the ground that's laid for the soon-to-come VdG outing, The Quiet Zone/The Pleasure Dome (& the beat group recordings that would follow with the K Band) - especially with the contributions from Graham Smith (&, to a lesser, but still welcome, extent, the return of Nic Potter).

At any rate, my sense is that this one may have had a bit of a mixed reputation - but I'm happy to have (re-)discovered what I'm now thinking is another to add to the roster of outstanding solo albums by pH.

[Progatron]

It's my favourite of his albums. I'm not saying it's his best necessarily, but it's my favourite. From beginning to end it hits me in a deep way, I find it very gripping and emotional. It really runs the gamut of emotions I think. The venom he spews in Betrayed for example, or the hopeless sorrow of This Side Of The Looking Glass... the hope found in Lost And Found (with a 'missing verse' from La Rossa) and the guilt of On Tuesdays (She Used To Do Yoga). For me, a mesmerizing album. A desert island top five.

[Mister Triscuits]

My first wife was a huge fan of this one. Maybe I should have taken that as a warning.

[Buddhabreath]

While not quite my favorite I consider it a classic. There is nothing quite like it. Based on real emotion and a traumatic break-up (obviously). Song writing at its most intimate and powerful. Just thinking of Betrayed raises goosebumps for me - and the violin harmonics - a perfect genius touch exactly right for that song. Not a stinker in the lot. Even the out of place 'Autumn" is a gem which I can now fully relate to.

The only reason it is not a desert island disc for me is because it's hard to listen to and eventually I'd cut my throat on that desert island...

[Buddhabreath]

My first wife was a huge fan of this one. Maybe I should have taken that as a warning.

LOL!

The first real love of my life was named Alice. Maybe I should have taken that as a warning.

[Zappathustra]

Thanks for starting this thread. I confess with embarrassment: this is the single 70's Hammill album that I cannot connect to. I have had sporadic listens over 25 years...nothing. My first impression was that it is too sentimental, and it hasn't changed much. I know that many accuse Hammill of sentimentality, but I find reasons for this only in Over.

I am a huge Hammill fan, and people whose opinions I fully trust deem Over a masterpiece, so I don't know what to say. I haven't given up on it yet, and maybe I need to force myself eventually to listen 4-5 times in a row to see what I've been missing. This thread could be a good chance to do this.

[per anporth]

Not being able to connect with the album pretty much exactly captures where I was with it, Zappathustra - &, like you, I would have classed myself as being a huge Hammill fan. But, this time around, it's really clicked with me.

[Steve F.]

When I went through a painful breakup, it spoke volumes and volumes to me.

Now, not so much, but I still own it and consider it a top tier release by PH.

[mx20]

It's always seemed to be a mix of a couple of non-complementary styles. The raw, solo PH, emotional stuff really works for me, but the opening & closing tunes usually get skipped by me. The good stuff on Over is effing incredible, but this is still not one of my very favorite PH albums. Also, the album cover is lame. Betrayed, Alice, Yoga, and Looking Glass (what else am I forgetting?) are top-tier Hammill.

[interbellum]

It's my favourite of his albums. I'm not saying it's his best necessarily, but it's my favourite. From beginning to end it hits me in a deep way, I find it very gripping and emotional. It really runs the gamut of emotions I think. The venom he spews in Betrayed for example, or the hopeless sorrow of This Side Of The Looking Glass... the hope found in Lost And Found (with a 'missing verse' from La Rossa) and the guilt of On Tuesdays (She Used To Do Yoga). For me, a mesmerizing album. A desert island top five.

Same here. Although maybe not a top five-album, it's a LP that's very dear to me, because it's so open emotional wise.

[gryphs also]

As a pH fan I. I've this recording. It is Hammill revealing himself as directly as possible. Although completely different in many ways, to me it mirrors the uninhibited raw emotion similar to Neil Young's Tonight's The Night.

Zappathrust---I understand your having difficulty. I struggled with H To He for over 30 years before it suddenly made sense to me. With Hammill it is worth it to keep trying.

[spacefreak]

I'd be interested to know what folks around here think of this "notorious" solo lp by pH..

I'm a huge early Hammill fan, and "Over" ranks among my top 3 albums of his.

[Zappathustra]

I just listened this afternoon on earphones and yes, it is very-very good! It's like listening for the first time (although I listened at least a couple of times this last year, to no avail). Songs like Lost and Found, I hadn't even payed any attention to - probably because I never reached that far due to frustration and boredom. I think what was blocking the way is the variety of contradictory styles: you get a hard rocker (Crying Wolf), two songs with orchestra (Autumn, Through the Looking Glass), two VDGG like songs (Time Heals, Lost and Found), two guitar-voice only bleak songs (Betrayed, Alice) and whatever Yoga could be. So there's no particular coherence, except from the excess of emotion and the theme of betrayal that unites these seemingly disparate songs.

And yes, Hammill the cosmic philosopher of Pawn Hearts, of Still Life, whining like a little girl because he had been dumped by his lover, possibly was off-putting as well. The simplicity of rhetorics is completely feminine "It seems there's not an ounce of love or trust anywhere in the world" - or even childish. And yet, what balls this man has to make art out of this simple sentiment of rejection. And they call PH pretentious!

I have to admit that I still don't like that much the two orchestrated songs, I find them dreadfully emotional. But maybe in the context of the album they do work in a different way. I will find out in the future, because I intend to return to this.

[abhorsen]

'Over' is pretty great start to finish. Yes, it's overtly emotional but I like how stark it is, and the music fits the lyrical content very well. I remember when I first listened to Phil Collins's Face Value thinking to myself, well it's no Over, but it's pretty good for the Sussudio guy.

[Mister Triscuits]

And yes, Hammill the cosmic philosopher of Pawn Hearts, of Still Life, whining like a little girl because he had been dumped by his lover, possibly was off-putting as well.

I see it the other way around: on Over PH is singing about real life, not some overblown apocalyptic horror-show fantasy, and the results are more effective, heartfelt, and involving. To me, something like "On Tuesdays she used to do yoga/On Tuesday she went away" is a much more harrowing evocation of pain than "Cogs tearing bones, cogs tearing bones/Iron-throated monsters are forcing our screams."

[Steve F.]

Songs like Lost and Found.....

Possibly my favorite of the album; is it a small shoot of hope springing up?

I have to admit that I still don't like that much the two orchestrated songs, I find them dreadfully emotional.

I’m not sure how much I ‘like’ them, but the dreadfully emotional is obviously the thing PH was aiming for. The whole album is dreadfully emotional.

[Steve F.]

I see it the other way around: on Over PH is singing about real life, not some overblown apocalyptic horror-show fantasy, and the results are more effective, heartfelt, and involving. To me, something like "On Tuesdays she used to do yoga/On Tuesday she went away" is a much more harrowing evocation of pain than "Cogs tearing bones, cogs tearing bones/Iron-throated monsters are forcing our screams."

Agreed. One is something that nearly all experience, one is something that only Alec K Redfearn seems to experience.

[bRETT]

Possibly my favorite of the album; is it a small shoot of hope springing up?

Yeah, I hear it as being about reaching the nadir (pun intended) of the breakup cycle-- seeing his ex get married-- and realizing things can only look up from there. There are also a couple of encouraging moments on "World Record" which I think was written around the same time.

The track I don't really like is "Autumn" because while it's as despairing as the rest of the album, it's about a very different circumstance, and one that he hadn't directly experienced.

[Zappathustra]

Possibly my favorite of the album; is it a small shoot of hope springing up?



I’m not sure how much I ‘like’ them, but the dreadfully emotional is obviously the thing PH was aiming for. The whole album is dreadfully emotional.

Yes on the first part and yes on the second. Clearly deliberate.

Lost and Found is also my favorite. I was kicking myself for not having noticed it.

[Steve F.]

^^^^^^^

! !

[Zappathustra]

I see it the other way around: on Over PH is singing about real life, not some overblown apocalyptic horror-show fantasy, and the results are more effective, heartfelt, and involving. To me, something like "On Tuesdays she used to do yoga/On Tuesday she went away" is a much more harrowing evocation of pain than "Cogs tearing bones, cogs tearing bones/Iron-throated monsters are forcing our screams."

I think on Chameleon and Silent Corner he has already touched on everyday themes, in a more elaborate and poetic way. Over is just spewing emotion, but of course this is no easy job either.

Anyways, he is a fantastic writer the least.

[MicrowaveBrain]

This album is also a personal favorite of mine. Clearly one of Hammill's most personal statements.

I also find it interesting how the individual songs seem to loosely correspond with the five stages of grief one goes through after a painful loss, in this case, the end of a relationship: "Denial (Crying Wolf), Anger (Betrayed), Bargaining (Alice, Yoga), Depression (This side of the Looking Glass) and finally Acceptance (Lost and Found).

Any other amateur (or perhaps even professional) psychologists care to comment?

[Progatron]

The track I don't really like is "Autumn" because while it's as despairing as the rest of the album, it's about a very different circumstance, and one that he hadn't directly experienced.

Fits in with the general theme of the album though. Youth and happy times are now "over". I love that track.

[Zappathustra]

This album is also a personal favorite of mine. Clearly one of Hammill's most personal statements.

I also find it interesting how the individual songs seem to loosely correspond with the five stages of grief one goes through after a painful loss, in this case, the end of a relationship. Denial (Crying Wolf), Anger (Betrayed), Bargaining (Alice, Yoga), Depression (This side of the Looking Glass) and finally Acceptance (Lost and Found).

Any other amateur (or perhaps even professional) psychologists care to comment?

Nice!

[Skeptrick]

Definitely one of my favorite PH solo albums as well. I have to be in a certain mood to listen to it, and it certainly reflects less happy times in my life. The album cover even found it's way onto the artwork of Marillion's Fugazi (as does the cover of Fool's Mate).