Not that it would change my opinion, but I would just like to know why Kansas (I mean everything up to - and maybe included - Monolith) isn't progressive rock. And in what genre would pieces like Song for America, Incomudro, Journey to Mariabronn, Magnum Opus would fall for people that believe it's obvious that Kansas is not prog-rock.
Sure they are. Not 100%. But, it seems to me that they have all the traditional elements.
"The White Zone is for loading and unloading only. If you got to load or unload go to the White Zone!"
No.
Ian
Host of the Post-Avant Jazzcore Happy Hour on progrock.com
https://podcasts.progrock.com/post-a...re-happy-hour/
Gordon Haskell - "You've got to keep the groove in your head and play a load of bollocks instead"
I blame Wynton, what was the question?
There are only 10 types of people in the World, those who understand binary and those that don't.
My ears don't deceive me when I listen to those 70's albums. I'd probably apply a venn diagram to Kansas, where there's a strong Prog Rock component to their writing, but the appeal of their music includes those who enjoy FM or classic rock.
Sorry, Ian, your hifalutin, avant taste preempts you from answering this question properly, and you know it.
Zappathustra, all those pieces you listed are prog.
The only time you hear otherwise is when someone has only heard the hits on the radio (so they are clueless about the catalog as a whole), or they have evolved past prog of this caliber into more sophisticated realms, like my friend Ian. There's no looking back when you do and a lot of stuff seems pretty tame in comparison once you go there.
Not every tune on those first eight album is prog, but you can bet the epics are.
If they were not prog we wouldn't be discussing them here and we often do. Meanwhile, their contemporaries like Journey, Boston, Styx, etc don't come up much because there isn't much prog in their catalogs to discuss. None of them have arrangements as grand as SFA, Magnum O, etc...
Last edited by Sean; 11-10-2017 at 03:20 PM.
In my humble opinion, and for whatever that's worth, Kansas were certainly both "prog" and "progressive" in the '70s. I'm sure many will disagree, but I doubt they will change my mind.Best wishes to you all regardless!
"Luminous beings are we, not this crude matter" - Yoda
www.farpointband.com
www.greyfeather.net
www.kevinjarvismusic.net
Kansas helped to create the AOR sound with "COWS," but the thing made it jump out of the radio was that cappella intro. And as far as I can recvall, the last band to have a radio hit that opened with a cappella harmony was Yes.
I've seen them called "gateway prog." There's enough progginess to get people interested in exploring prog further. But who cares anyway? I'm here because of Kansas. I blame it all on Kansas. Without Kansas I would never have bothered with Yes, Genesis, blabiddy blah blah. I don't listen to them often anymore but I still love those old albums. And as usual, thanks Sean for defending them or else I would've left PE a long time ago.
+1Originally Posted by NogbadTheBad
... “there’s a million ways to learn” (which there are, by the way), but ironically, there’s a million things to eat, I’m just not sure I want to eat them all. -- Jeff Berlin
Sorry, Ian, your hifalutin, avant taste preempts you from answering this question properly, and you know it.
Zappathustra, all those pieces you listed are prog.
The only time you hear otherwise is when someone has only heard the hits on the radio (so they are clueless about the catalog as a whole), or they have evolved past prog of this caliber into more sophisticated realms, like my friend Ian. There's no looking back when you do and a lot of stuff seems pretty tame in comparison once you go there.
Not every tune on those first eight album is prog, but you can bet the epics are.
If they were not prog we wouldn't be discussing them here and we often do. Meanwhile, their contemporaries like Journey, Boston, Styx, etc don't come up much because there isn't much prog in their catalogs to discuss. None of them have arrangements as grand as SFA, Magnum O, etc...
I don't know, I listen to all sorts of avant prog (and non-prog avant) and various other genre's, and I still love Kansas' 70's albums.
I think they get lumped in with Journey, Boston, Styx, etc. because they have that big, bold American sound. Which they cleverly combined with European style prog rock to create a heavy rock/prog rock hybrid. It's almost like they were creating their own style of music utilizing elements of their influences. I'd call that "progressive".
That said, they certainly didn't create the symph prog or bogie rock styles, but they did fuse them into a uniquely American style of prog rock. So no question, they were progressive rock (of course, I use the past tense because they didn't "progress" at all after 1979, IMO).
Ian, if you are willing to bother, I would like you to commemt on the second part of my post. What genre would u claim that a piece like Incomundro belongs too?
Last edited by Zappathustra; 11-10-2017 at 04:27 PM.
I dare say he'd have to go and familiarize himself with it before he can answer that. But will he take the time?
Sure, just like Rush and the Beach Boys...
Kansas are a great example of 70's American Prog Rock....
Dave Sr.
I prefer Nature to Human Nature
I don't know, I listen to all sorts of avant prog (and non-prog avant) and various other genre's, and I still love Kansas' 70's albums.- Infadious
Well, I take that back then! I guess there is SOME looking back for some of you, which is endearing to hear. But as a rule I think my observation was a fair one.
Sure they are.
Chris Cutler is the only guy I know of who would likely say they unequivocally weren't - and he may be the most extreme small-p-progressive purist out there. Maybe Fred Frith. Probably not Kerman, probably not Mike Johnson, probably not any of the SGM guys. Sure, they might consider Kansas a rather cheesy and old-fashioned prog band even when they started, although you could also make a case for Kerry & Co. as pioneers of the Copland-influenced "Ameriprog" sound. But not a prog band at all? Nope.
Hey, their first album on Cuneiform was pretty proggy....
This is exactly how I feel about Kansas (and Journey, Boston and Styx for that matter). When Kansas are Prog on those first five-ish albums, they are as Prog as anybody. The songs you list plus many others fully qualify in my book, even COWS which while a bit more streamlined still has the hallmarks of Prog to me.
They do have other material on the first five albums that is not really Prog Rock, and that seems to put them in a sort of middle ground with some people. Personally, I think that on balance the first five albums are Prog Rock, but have a fair number of more straight ahead rock songs mixed in. I made CDR compilations of the first four albums that omit the rock tunes, and a couple of the Proggier tracks that I'm not so fond of. Each is about an hour long, and each is pretty much a Prog-gasm. I spun disc 2 (Masque and Leftoverture) just last week, and I was totally loving it. All the wheat, none of the chaff for me!
So yes, early Kansas = Prog in my book, with the exception of some tracks.
Bill
Don't just say yes or no, elaborate please. I want to understand how you perceive it. To prove me that me, who thinks that they are definitely prog, am a fool who is almost exactly wrong. That if you write long-scale epics, strongly influenced by classical music, you're not prog. You're something else - but can u tell me what exactly this is?
I would answer "What they've done that's Prog is Prog, and what they've done that isn't prog isn't prog." Let's say The B-52s had somehow released one sidelong, symphonic prog masterpiece that sounded like prime, Gabriel-era Genesis. I don't think I'd consider them a Prog band, but I'd consider that one piece Prog. I'm more into labeling music than bands!
Does anyone really care about what 'box' they are put in / stuck under? I know I don't. YMMV
Steve F.
www.waysidemusic.com
www.cuneiformrecords.com
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
“Remember, if it doesn't say "Cuneiform," it's not prog!” - THE Jed Levin
Any time any one speaks to me about any musical project, the one absolute given is "it will not make big money". [tip of the hat to HK]
"Death to false 'support the scene' prog!"
please add 'imo' wherever you like, to avoid offending those easily offended.
Ultimately, no.
But he asked....
To me Rush is no more or less prog than Kansas.
It's ocd. I'd recognize it anywhere.
Perhaps finding the happy medium is harder than we know.
I'd say pound for pound they are a bit less prog. Not that it matters much.
Posting Permissions
Reply With Quote
Bookmarks