Camel - Stationary Traveler

[Mr.Krautman]

Well of course, that's why I like Camel, I'm female. I also like Gentle Giant, Caravan, Van Der Graaf Generator, Genesis, Yes, Rush, Renaissance, Hoelderlin, Eloy, Novalis, Triumvirat and many others, so I suppose they all score low on the progness-meter.

Oooops... Gentle Giant, Van Der Graaf ? something wrong in my analysis. OK, back to the drawing board right now to perfect my progness-factor meter.

And maybe you're ready now to try Henry Cow: I would suggest starting with "In Praise of..." because it has some (horror!) "hummable vocal parts" which makes it the "poppiest H.C record", though Dagmar's voice/singing is not for everybody and more like an acquired taste.

[Canvas]

I've always loved this album, probably because I was about 17 when it came out. The album cover perfectly conveys the sound of the music within, and, as a concept album, I always loved the atmosphere of this one....

[Tom]

And maybe you're ready now to try Henry Cow: I would suggest starting with "In Praise of..." because it has some (horror!) "hummable vocal parts" which makes it the "poppiest H.C record", though Dagmar's voice/singing is not for everybody and more like an acquired taste.

And don't worry -- once you have mastered Henry Cow, there will be a still more outre band and someone to condescendingly suggest that you should broaden your horizons further. World without end.

[Rarebird]

And don't worry -- once you have mastered Henry Cow, there will be a still more outre band and someone to condescendingly suggest that you should broaden your horizons further. World without end.

My horizon is broad enough, thank you.
I like a whole lot of music and I don't care wether it's prog or not. I leave that discussion to others.

And while one considers a melody hummable, like I think of my own music, others, like my father, who loves traditional jazz and baroque music, don't.

[Jmac]

I was not offended by this. I do not agree that Camel is 85% pop. Maybe the ST era skewed more pop but their '70 output I would quantify as >85% Prog.

[Jmac]

Geez people. You're offended by THIS??? I only meant Camel is 85% pop, 15% progressive, hence on the shallow end where Univers Zero and Henry Cow are the deep end.

Yes, Latimer's solos are most expressive. Like Gilmour he wrings a lot of emotion out of not-so-many notes. But his songs are hummable, vocal, structured conventionally and using standard instrumentation. Mostly.

Sometimes I wonder if I have autism. I cannot understand why some people take offense at some seemingly-innocuous things (but not others which I find really horrific).

Sorry. above was in reference to this...

[MYSTERIOUS TRAVELLER]

Never cared for it, too pop, too 80s. “Pressure Points” is fantastic, but it’s all downhill after that. “Long Goodbyes” is dire, one of the worst songs ever released under the Camel moniker. Still haven’t heard The Single Factor, if it’s actually worse than this...

^^^
what he said

and Mike
TSF is indeed worse

but if you can get a copy for $3, Sasquatch is the saving piece on that one

3 bad Camel albums (all others are at least very good):
2nd runner up: Stationary Traveller
1st runner up: ICSYHFH

worst of the worst: TSF

I love Nude... perhaps even more than the 90s-00s albums

[MYSTERIOUS TRAVELLER]

I'm just asking, because his comment is a prime example of the kind of remarks people bring up when I find them licking their wounds in the hall, talking about how they haven't come to this place in years because we allow people to talk that way.

So sometime I wonder "what if" we would have approached things differently? Would it have given us a better rep?

Personally, I think running a forum like this is a thankless job at times and even one censored into being a Utopian, pro-band forum would have it's detractors and "wound lickers".

Do you agree?

yup

[calyx]

I don't think "The Single Factor" is the unmitigated disaster often described. There are two segments totalling a 3rd of the album that I think most Camel fans would enjoy :

1) "Selva" (a short, atmospheric instrumental with some great Latimer guitar) - "Lullabye" (a short piano ballad in the style of Nude's "Please Come Home") - "Sasquatch" (a cool instrumental with Peter Bardens, Anthony Phillips and Simon Phillips - not a bad line-up !) - that's nearly 10 minutes of pretty good stuff.

2) Then the closing pair of "A Heart's Desire" (a ballad sung by Chris Rainbow) and "End Peace" (an instrumental with a gorgeous Latimer solo over Anthony Phillips' keyboards. Another very fine 4 minutes.

Sure, I don't have much time for practically any of the actual songs on the album, but a solid 15 minutes of good music on a 1982 isn't all that bad.

[Zinister]

Like Camel, but not Stationary.

[Scrotum Scissor]

And don't worry -- once you have mastered Henry Cow, there will be a still more outre band and someone to condescendingly suggest that you should broaden your horizons further. World without end.

Yeah, that would be truly condescending. One should always feel and/or know that one knows and feels adequately already and is ultimately on top of everything. Then there's preciously little left to be aware of or discover, so as to make passionately rightful claim to universal truths on behalf of this self-limitation - a kind of "fact as *I* see it! Me!" Thereby, I can for instance allow myself to respond to a thread titled "Why wasn't there much prog in the 80s?" by justifying how this 'truth' luckily complies with what I myself know or, alternately, don't know - although other folks have proved the very premise wrongful. Because I'm a prog fan, meaning I like prog - yet I don't/won't like those names that were unknown to me. So they can't possibly have been prog. And all this is ultimately about me. Only me. M-m-me.

Camel were good during the 70s, got significantly weaker in the 80s and finally improved substantially with their latest string of records. Stationary Traveller isn't bad because "it's pop" but because the songs are uninspired and the identity of the band itself is practically eradicated from the music.

[Scrotum Scissor]

Camel and National Health are more accessible than Gentle Giant or Soft Machine

It's relative and subjective. I could never understand why anyone would find anything by GGiant an even remotely difficult listen - but that's just me. I don't find Camel "shallow" either, and I doubt if hardboiled Milli Vanilli fanatics would deem NHealth particularly accessible.

[Tom]

Thereby, I can for instance allow myself to respond to a thread titled "Why wasn't there much prog in the 80s?" by justifying how this 'truth' luckily complies with what I myself know or, alternately, don't know - although other folks have proved the very premise wrongful. Because I'm a prog fan, meaning I like prog - yet I don't/won't like those names that were unknown to me. So they can't possibly have been prog. And all this is ultimately about me. Only me. M-m-me.

So kind of you, to think of me.

[Scrotum Scissor]

So kind of you, to think of me.

No, not me but, b-but... Me.

[Progbear]

Stationary Traveller isn't bad because "it's pop" but because the songs are uninspired and the identity of the band itself is practically eradicated from the music.

You kind of have to put yourself back into the mindset musicians had in the 80s. A lot of people kind of roll their eyes at the term “corporate rock” nowadays (with nostalgic cries of “Hey! I like Toto!”) but this was the period where the suits took over the music industry, turning pop music into assembly-line product. The success of albums like Thriller and Born in the U.S.A. put the pressure on artists everywhere to write songs that were potential hit singles (or rather, record execs were pressuring artists on their roster to come up with hit singles). But Thriller and Born in the U.S.A. were made by artists who believed in the type of music they were making. Which is why they are heralded as classics, and all those albums by prog bands making half-assed attempts to appeal to a mass 80s audience suck so bad.

[rickmoraz]

It's a pity that they didn't include an additional track called "In the arms of waltzing Frauleins" on the original release ( I only discovered it recently on Itunes) since it gives a pretty distinct atmosphere to the whole (although it's something that seems much more related to Berlin/Weimar/WWII than to the post WWII period). I don't know if it was composed/included some time after the original LP release for touring purposes

Ed

[Scrotum Scissor]

You kind of have to put yourself back into the mindset musicians had in the 80s. A lot of people kind of roll their eyes at the term “corporate rock” nowadays (with nostalgic cries of “Hey! I like Toto!”) but this was the period where the suits took over the music industry, turning pop music into assembly-line product. The success of albums like Thriller and Born in the U.S.A. put the pressure on artists everywhere to write songs that were potential hit singles (or rather, record execs were pressuring artists on their roster to come up with hit singles). But Thriller and Born in the U.S.A. were made by artists who believed in the type of music they were making. Which is why they are heralded as classics, and all those albums by prog bands making half-assed attempts to appeal to a mass 80s audience suck so bad.

Utterly true. Which is the main reason why 80s progressive rock of much credit was squarely created by underground, independent artists. You can't hold commercial efforts or aspirations against bands who were accustomed to a wholly other cultural logistic and existed on the mercy of corporate moguls, seeing as none of those 'dinos' would have survived in the alternative market of pop/rock - where interest in anything 'progressive' was down to cult-like affections. In other words; thank the almighty for the ventures of art-punk and avant-progressive.

[Tom]

Utterly true. Which is the main reason why 80s progressive rock of much credit was squarely created by underground, independent artists. You can't hold commercial efforts or aspirations against bands who were accustomed to a wholly other cultural logistic and existed on the mercy of corporate moguls, seeing as none of those 'dinos' would have survived in the alternative market of pop/rock - where interest in anything 'progressive' was down to cult-like affections. In other words; thank the almighty for the ventures of art-punk and avant-progressive.

Well said. But the heinous "suits" performed one valuable purpose, what today's internet marketers call "curation". They pruned a vast population of aspiring musicians to a manageable number of bands, most with a comprehensible identity.

One substantial difficulty in exploring avant-progressive, particularly in its early period, is the absence of such curation. Many albums from that era are laudably experimental; but not all experiments succeed. The situation improved in the 2000s, as the avant-rock community grew more unified and began promoting its own champions.

[Scrotum Scissor]

Many albums from that era are laudably experimental; but not all experiments succeed. The situation improved in the 2000s, as the avant-rock community grew more unified and began promoting its own champions.

While partly true, one has to consider how 'laudably experimental' was to some extent the standard of the day back then; after the endeavour of punk, there were essentially very few places to move next in rock - without appearing reactionary and heading for New Romantics or NWoBHM. As a result, much 80s post-punk remains overtly radical and transgressive, even by today's standards. And that was their intent - to explore extremities (as in no-wave or industrial music from the European continent). If you seek to move along, then breaking free is often necessary.

This being said, I don't hear much 'laudable experimentalism' in any desperate need of curation with the music of Orthotonics or Débile Menthol or Holy Toy or Expander des Fortschritts or Zut Un Feu Rouge. They didn't adhere to previously conscripted rules or regulations, and weren't supposed to. This was one of the obsessive freedoms awarded and allowed them by the paradigm of DIY.

[interbellum]

It's a pity that they didn't include an additional track called "In the arms of waltzing Frauleins" on the original release ( I only discovered it recently on Itunes) since it gives a pretty distinct atmosphere to the whole (although it's something that seems much more related to Berlin/Weimar/WWII than to the post WWII period). I don't know if it was composed/included some time after the original LP release for touring purposes

Ed

As you might know it's the opening-track on the 2004-rerelease on Camel Productions, which also includes an extended mix of Pressure Points as a bonustrack.
Although I like a lot of 80s music, the sound of this Camel didn't age as well as albums from the likes of Nik Kersaw, at least in my ears. But it's still a nice album

[Kcrimso]

Stationary Traveller turns 40! Nice combination of pop and some progressive tendencies. I wrote a review of the album:https://pienemmatpurot.com/review-ca...raveller-1984/

[Rarebird]

Stationary Traveller turns 40! Nice combination of pop and some progressive tendencies. I wrote a review of the album:https://pienemmatpurot.com/review-ca...raveller-1984/

The Dutch prog-band Kayakis?
The group was named Kayak.

But nonetheless, a nice review.

[Kcrimso]

The Dutch prog-band Kayakis?
The group was named Kayak.

But nonetheless, a nice review.

It was a typing error. Sorry. It happens sometimes.

[Rarebird]

It was a typing error. Sorry. It happens sometimes.

I thought so. Things like that can happen.

[Rajaz]

Nice review, I enjoyed it just like I did the first time I listened to this album. Very underrated but still one of the 80's Camel standouts.

(the other typo is Factor, not Factory but just a minor one) ;-)