Ex-proggers who became new wavers... the best and worst?

[Rarebird]

Carlo Karges, who played with Novalis on their self-titled album, went to Nena of 99 Red Ballons fame.
He wrote the lyrics for the German version of that song and wrote the lyrics for 'Wer Schmetterlinge lachen hört' from Novalis. This lyrics were read on his burial.

[PiscesPraematurus]

Don't care what anyone says... I love this album. Solid, rocky album of decent little songs. The New Wave aspect enters in the lyrical themes of social dystopia; musical New Wave themes are present in songs like "Underground" and "It's Not Imagination."

I like this one, too. I heard it after a very late exposure to GG and had read all of the bashing. When I finally played it, I was pleasantly surprised. I thought GG did a good job of changing it up a bit.

[Zaragon]

More so than anything on Civilian, "Giant for a Day" — the song, not the whole album — was very much in the vein of This Year's Model, A Tonic for the Troops, White Music, UK Squeeze, and other late '70s New Wave releases. Taut cadences, staccato precision, wobbly keyboards — hallmarks shared across numbers like "No Action," "Living On an Island," "Neon Shuffle," "Remember What?," etc.

[Progbear]

It's interesting reading a positive assessment of these otherwise universally maligned albums (not least Annie Haslam herself), but whether these are "successful" or "triumphant" attempts at transitioning from the 1970s to the 1980s is open to debate, since as far as I know both were commercial failures and resulted in the band ceasing to make albums, and not long after, disbanding altogether.

Camera Camera, if it is “new wave” influenced, it’s very subtly/tentatively so. When I finally heard it, it sounded to me like they were trying for a contemporaneous Kate Bush kind of sound. I just wish they pushed a little harder in that direction with a bit more conviction. It’s not a bad album and its heart is in the right place, but it’s disappointingly mediocre. This coming from someone who loved the frequently maligned Azure d’or. Still have not heard Time-Line.

I can accept 'Release Release' but too much of Tormato is the sound of a band out of touch IMHO...the lyrics and Wakeman's solos/sounds in particular.

Generally agreed, though I do think “Release Release” is one of this album’s boo-boos. They may have been trying for a contemporary “new wave” kind of sound, but wound up more along the lines of the Boston/Journey school of AOR. Especially that ridiculous “fake live” break in the middle! “Future Times/Rejoice” and OTSWOF are the only salvageable bits of that album for me.

[per anporth]

On Tormato, I have thought from the moment I first heard it back in 1978, that the keyboard sounds & playing on OTSWF were uncannily close to Dave Greenfield's playing in the Stranglers.

I confess that I got hold of Camera, Camera on the basis of the discussion on this thread, & have regretted doing so more or less from the first moment. Sure, there are a couple of new wavey moments, such as the penultimate track, but the album is a dud - lacklustre & bland.

With regards to Hammill - I'd say he was pretty much new wave with the new wave VdG - in fact, this album still feels much more new wave to me than Sitting Targets.

[Zaragon]

Camera Camera, if it is “new wave” influenced, it’s very subtly/tentatively so. When I finally heard it, it sounded to me like they were trying for a contemporaneous Kate Bush kind of sound.

There had been parallels between the two acts since Kate Bush first emerged on the scene, as both plied symphonic/pastoral territory. But Camera Camera stepped beyond that territory and is mostly irrelevant to the Renaissance/Bush comparison. With the exception of "Violin," Bush had yet to move in the rock direction — Camera Camera preceded The Dreaming. The main precedent set by Camera Camera was its inspired integration of Toyah/Lene elements — particularly in the vocal, rhythmic, and sonic departments — which the band wove brilliantly with their classic compositional style.

“Release Release”... They may have been trying for a contemporary “new wave” kind of sound, but wound up more along the lines of the Boston/Journey school of AOR.

Not that AOR is a bad thing, but the end result was more along the lines of "Toiler On the Sea" by the Stranglers or "Stone Heroes" by Penetration, both epic punk/hard rock songs from the same year as "Release Release."

[Trane]

Generally agreed, though I do think “Release Release” is one of this album’s boo-boos. They may have been trying for a contemporary “new wave” kind of sound, but wound up more along the lines of the Boston/Journey school of AOR. Especially that ridiculous “fake live” break in the middle! “Future Times/Rejoice” and OTSWOF are the only salvageable bits of that album for me.

On Tormato, I have thought from the moment I first heard it back in 1978, that the keyboard sounds & playing on OTSWF were uncannily close to Dave Greenfield's playing in the Stranglers.

I'm not sure why we're discussing Tormato in the feame of the thread's title (New Wave), but those who vilipend it should look at GFTO's shorter tracks, as they don't sound much better: Howe's annoying guitar/lapsteel (or whatever) tone. The two big differences between those albums is Awaken, and the great Hipgnosis album sleeve of the older sibbling.

If anything Drama and the Cinema project were definitely more new wacve, the former with the two Buggles and the latter originally specifically designed to be a new modern project

[JJ88]

On Tormato, I have thought from the moment I first heard it back in 1978, that the keyboard sounds & playing on OTSWF were uncannily close to Dave Greenfield's playing in the Stranglers.

IMHO that has an uninspired noodle-solo from Wakeman, compared with the many excellent ones he'd played previously ('Roundabout', 'Close To The Edge', 'The Revealing Science Of God' etc.). It's one reason why 'Silent Wings' does not catch fire for me...and the conclusion is truly weak in my view.

Dave Greenfield always seems to be playing the same solo to me!

I would agree that Rush became very New Wave-influenced in the 80s.

[per anporth]

^^^ Haha - quite so, JJ - comparing Wakeman's playing to Greenfield's was not meant as a compliment! For better or worse, The Stranglers were never really considered a punk band (& *certainly* not a New Wave band); indeed, as I recall, most punks back in the day hated them - & one of the main reasons was Greenfield's noodling.

[interbellum]

^^^ Haha - quite so, JJ - comparing Wakeman's playing to Greenfield's was not meant as a compliment! For better or worse, The Stranglers were never really considered a punk band (& *certainly* not a New Wave band); indeed, as I recall, most punks back in the day hated them - & one of the main reasons was Greenfield's noodling.

In those days Greenfield confessed he liked to listen to Camel.

[JJ88]

^I think there were a few Yes fans in that band- I recall an interview with JJ Burnel (in Prog Magazine I think) where he said he liked some of their stuff and others like Caravan via Dave Greenfield. I like Greenfield a lot as a textural player but as a soloist, not as much. It's just that same up-and-down-the-keyboard thing all the time. Wakeman when not inspired can be like that as well, yes, although with a broader musical vocabulary.

[Galactic Bulldozer]

That ex-progger Roy Orbison can't drop the concept album thing...

[miamiscot]

Steven Wilson.

Those first two songs on To The Bone (co-written by Andy Partridge) are excellent examples of Prog Pop.

[Zaragon]

I'm not sure why we're discussing Tormato... if anything Drama and the Cinema project were definitely more [New Wave]

Nope. Tormato displayed more audible New Wave influence, primarily due to two tracks, as pointed out on the last page. That said, Drama is a much stronger album overall, and more in the vein of their early, pre-Fragile sound and style.

[Zaragon]

While it was likely unconscious, Steve Hackett's "Racing in A" is somewhat New Wave influenced on the verses. "Burning Up Time" by the Stranglers is invoked by the rhythmic qualities in certain sections of the Hackett/Walsh collaboration. Compare the two sequences:

Whenever I feel I'm over reacting
And I'm trying too hard

That brisk, four-wallops per bar precision is very similar to the following verse:

The Brighton train it goes real soon
My Brighton Belle is in her room

[Oreb]

Marillion's Holidays in Eden. Vocally Hogarth spends the whole time channelling Sting and Bono.

[Progbear]

Marillion's Holidays in Eden. Vocally Hogarth spends the whole time channelling Sting and Bono.

Hogarth was already a new-waver before he was in Marillion:

[MYSTERIOUS TRAVELLER]

^^^ Haha - quite so, JJ - comparing Wakeman's playing to Greenfield's was not meant as a compliment! For better or worse, The Stranglers were never really considered a punk band (& *certainly* not a New Wave band); indeed, as I recall, most punks back in the day hated them - & one of the main reasons was Greenfield's noodling.

umm... no

The Stranglers were popular with every Punk rocker I ever knew back in the early 80s... and those are the only people I hung with back then!

[3LockBox]

Great thread!

[Trane]

The Stranglers were never really considered a punk band (& *certainly* not a New Wave band); indeed, as I recall, most punks back in the day hated them - & one of the main reasons was Greenfield's noodling.

umm... no

The Stranglers were popular with every Punk rocker I ever knew back in the early 80s... and those are the only people I hung with back then!

To North Am punk kids in your neck of the woods (and mine) , maybe...

But the snobby and brutal punkheads living it in the UK were wary of The Police (because of their age and previous credentials) and detested The Stranglers, partly because of the band's KB presence and his age , but also the fact that they came out of the pub-rock scene. To these London lower-east-end-hoods thugs (most punks were of that kind), the only thing punk about The Stranglers was their French bassist JJ Burnel, who was constantly getting in fistfights with them

[Zaragon]

The Stranglers had a sizable punk following in the UK, but their contrapuntal sui generis approach also netted them strong appeal among hard rockers, prog heads, space rockers — pretty much a cross-section of maximalist types. It was this plurality of fans that propelled the band's first four albums into the Top 4 of the UK charts.

[per anporth]

The Stranglers had a sizable punk following in the UK, but their contrapuntal sui generis approach also netted them strong appeal among hard rockers, prog heads, space rockers — pretty much a cross-section of maximalist types. It was this plurality of fans that propelled the band's first four albums into the Top 4 of the UK charts.

Once again, this is incorrect - it's simply not appropriate to infer socio-cultural phenomena from the "evidence" of record sales.

http://www.liverpoolecho.co.uk/whats...ed-3008500.amp

“None of the other punk bands liked us,” says the bassist Jean-Jacques Burnel, looking back. “It’s funny hearing young bands mention us as an influence now, because back then no band would ever admit to liking us.”

[Soc Prof]

Regarding Rush circa Signals and GUP: "New World Man" and "The Enemy Within" both had The Police written all over them. With that said, I would call them a hard rock band with some new wave influences, along with the pre-existing prog influences, rather than a new wave band.

[Zaragon]

The apparent influence of Replicas/Pleasure Principle-era Gary Numan ("I Nearly Married a Human," "Airlane") on the synth tones and layers of Signals has been noted before, but a very similar sound was actually done two years earlier than Numan and five years before Rush on Black Noise, the 1977 debut of fellow Canadian prog/AOR trio FM. The latter album's masked violinist, Nash the Slash, would later cameo on Numan's 1981 Dance LP, while subsequent FM mainstay Ben Mink would guest on Signals.

The influence of the Vienna LP by Ultravox on 1982—84-era Rush has also been mentioned, and perhaps even corroborated from the horse's mouth, though I personally hear more audible linkage between the sound of Ure-period 'vox and that of a third Canadian AOR/prog entity, Saga. The likeness is particularly evident in the vocal department, but also in certain instrumental passages, such as the respective "corridor" sequences of "All Stood Still and "Don't Be Late."

[interbellum]

The other way around for me went Magazine on Secondhand Daylight: from New Wave to Prog (although Real Life also had some progressive movements).