PE's Continued Appeal?

[battema]

Oh, you're gonna invoke Lino? I see the gloves are off, so let's DO this...

I don't feel the bond with this place that I once did. A good part of that is how I've changed and my tastes have changed. Some of it is the blend of folks; there are fewer trolls, but also some names who left that I genuinely miss. I never used to concern myself with the political leanings of other posters, but due to the realities of the last few years, now I am uncomfortably aware of those divisions and reasonable or not, it HAS changed the nature of the room. Shorter fuses, people who seem to be itching to start a fight or to draw lines...everyone thinks they're the ones on the right soapbox, but most times they're wrong. IMHO, and shouted from my own junky soapbox to be clear.

That said...the bonds that I do have here are strong, and many have carried over into the real world. Names and faces that are always waiting with a warm handshake or even a hug when we cross paths. Maybe the convos on here aren't the deepest, but they're kind of the tip of the proverbial friendship/camaraderie iceberg, and that's OK. I even have fans here, which baffles me on nearly every level but also yields a lot of happiness and gratitude. And I still sometimes feel that connection with this music, which is great. And I still learn lots, both about the bands that I already love, but also bands that hadn't come across my radar until now. And discovering new awesome music has been and continues to be one my life's remaining utterly-guilt-free pleasures.

In a world that feels increasingly disinterested in sustaining tolerance of one another, I still find a fair bit of comfort in this joint, warts and all. And I am grateful for that, and for everyone who helps keep this place worth the visit.

Anyway, everyone who doesn't like the music I like is a sucky person who clearly needs to get their hearing checked and their head scanned for brain damage. And if you don't listen to what I do or say then you're a closed-minded twit who doesn't REALLY support the scene, and you should be very, very, very ashamed of yourself.

[Rarebird]

I guess I'll just say it -- years ago when I first joined, so many people were so kind and awesome and encouraged me to check out this wonderful and weird music, and it was (and still is) a really cool thing to me. But now, I see most of this site being extra extra extra salty towards anyone young, and it just doesnt make sense to me. People like me took prog and ran with it, and guess what, it kinda made a comeback. Rush and Yes are both in the Hof something 90% of you in 2002 said would never happen. I know plenty of younger folks who are really eager to explore this type of music, and yet the toxicity and gatekeeping is pretty much a guarantee to make sure anyone under 40 will stay away. Im sure you will be quick to say that i'm being woke or whatever -- if thats your comment then save it, lol.

I guess what I'm saying is, PE (and the older generation in general...) has disappointed me in general in huge ways in the last .... oh I dunno ... 6 years? If you wanted an exact date, maybe Nov. 8th 2016. But who knows. And yeah, you can say I'm being a whiny loser or whatever, I dont care -- but Ive been through so much in the last 2 years -- literally half my family + 2 close friends all died between Mar 2020 and July 2021 -- can you really fucking blame me if all I wanted to do was listen to a new Yes song again? Yet half of you folks act like someone shot your mom in the face because Jon Davison exists.

Perhaps we old people (don't consider myself old, sometimes think I'm a child) are just jealous at the younger people, who have so much more time to explore music and for whom everything is new and exiting.

[Yves]

... so didn’t make sense that it would surprise you it was still that way.

I actually did not know what I would find when I returned. You just forget the climate here when you step away for years. You forget that posts on PE do not get flushed away instantly in a sea of other posts, like on FB. No...they linger like farts and you have to then continually explain the smell you left behind.

[Scott Bails]

No...they linger like farts and you have to then continually explain the smell you left behind.

That's just part of this place's charm

[Quantum Cat]

I guess I'll just say it -- years ago when I first joined, so many people were so kind and awesome and encouraged me to check out this wonderful and weird music, and it was (and still is) a really cool thing to me. But now, I see most of this site being extra extra extra salty towards anyone young, and it just doesnt make sense to me. People like me took prog and ran with it, and guess what, it kinda made a comeback. Rush and Yes are both in the Hof something 90% of you in 2002 said would never happen. I know plenty of younger folks who are really eager to explore this type of music, and yet the toxicity and gatekeeping is pretty much a guarantee to make sure anyone under 40 will stay away. Im sure you will be quick to say that i'm being woke or whatever -- if thats your comment then save it, lol.

I guess what I'm saying is, PE (and the older generation in general...) has disappointed me in general in huge ways in the last .... oh I dunno ... 6 years? If you wanted an exact date, maybe Nov. 8th 2016. But who knows. And yeah, you can say I'm being a whiny loser or whatever, I don't care -- but Ive been through so much in the last 2 years -- literally half my family + 2 close friends all died between Mar 2020 and July 2021 -- can you really fucking blame me if all I wanted to do was listen to a new Yes song again? Yet half of you folks act like someone shot your mom in the face because Jon Davison exists.

That's a broad brush with which you paint. I for one, would be old in your eyes but that doesn't lesson my outrage at the ongoing destruction and madness. The point is to get involved and do something about, not just complain - that's why we're in this mess in the first place. Don't make assumptions - I don't assume you're naive and ignorant just because you're young. I think you've also missed an important aspect of what make progressive music progressive. Never heard of Henry Cow or Robert Wyatt or RIO? Drop the paint brush and step away from the bar son.

[Klonk]

Anybody that thinks this place is bad clearly hasn't ventured far into the world of social media...you'd shit your pants out there

[battema]

Anybody that thinks this place is bad clearly hasn't ventured far into the world of social media...you'd shit your pants out there

Damn, and here I assumed it was my high fiber meals

[Klonk]

Damn, and here I assumed it was my high fiber meals

seriously though...PE is quite tame compared to lets say something like Twitter which is a kingdom of assholes.

[Rick L.]

seriously though...PE is quite tame compared to lets say something like Twitter which is a kingdom of assholes.

Kingdom of Assholes would be a good prawg album title.

[Mascodagama]

I guess I'll just say it -- years ago when I first joined, so many people were so kind and awesome and encouraged me to check out this wonderful and weird music, and it was (and still is) a really cool thing to me. But now, I see most of this site being extra extra extra salty towards anyone young, and it just doesnt make sense to me. People like me took prog and ran with it, and guess what, it kinda made a comeback. Rush and Yes are both in the Hof something 90% of you in 2002 said would never happen. I know plenty of younger folks who are really eager to explore this type of music, and yet the toxicity and gatekeeping is pretty much a guarantee to make sure anyone under 40 will stay away. Im sure you will be quick to say that i'm being woke or whatever -- if thats your comment then save it, lol.

I guess what I'm saying is, PE (and the older generation in general...) has disappointed me in general in huge ways in the last .... oh I dunno ... 6 years? If you wanted an exact date, maybe Nov. 8th 2016. But who knows. And yeah, you can say I'm being a whiny loser or whatever, I dont care -- but Ive been through so much in the last 2 years -- literally half my family + 2 close friends all died between Mar 2020 and July 2021 -- can you really fucking blame me if all I wanted to do was listen to a new Yes song again? Yet half of you folks act like someone shot your mom in the face because Jon Davison exists.

Speaking as a 53-year-old of left wing political views I find my own generation pretty disappointing too, but I don't really see the current PE populace as exemplifying the problem.

I dunno about gatekeeping but my general impression is that 'old days' PE was a lot more abrasive, and people were more often dismissive of music they didn't approve of, than is the case today.

[Rarebird]

Speaking as a 53 year old of left wing political views I find my own generation pretty disappointing too, but I don't really see the current PE populace as exemplifying the problem.

I dunno about gatekeeping but my general impression is that 'old days' PE was a lot more abrasive, and people were more often dismissive of music they didn't approve of, than is the case today.

On the other hand, I have the feeling in the old days PE felt far more like a community.

[chalkpie]

Kingdom of Assholes would be a good prawg album title.

Rick L and The Kingdom of Assholes

debut album: "In the Hole of The Troll" (2022, Scrotum Scissor Records)

[Rick L.]

Rick L and The Kingdom of Assholes

debut album: "In the Hole of The Troll" (2022, Scrotum Scissor Records)

Let's do this!

[chalkpie]

Let's do this!

OK.

[ronmac]

Damn, Yves, I feel like I may have been part of the reason why you regretted coming back, if you happened to do so during my recent dispute (which has, luckily, since been deleted). For the record, I was not even a part of this thread until I was alerted by someone else that my name was dropped, and got pulled into it to defend myself.

To be clear, I am not looking to defend myself as some unwitting victim. I have been known to argue with others, but have cooled off significantly and tend not to bother most of the time. But, I also don't want to be lumped in with the same old shit-stirrers that turned you off in the first place.

But, I do feel compelled to ask you to not judge your return by its unfortunate timing, if this is the thread that turned you off.

[Munster]

A kingdom of assholes.

I can see Amazon Prime stretching that out for five seasons

[Mascodagama]

On the other hand, I have the feeling in the old days PE felt far more like a community.

I'm sure you're right. I'm a relative newcomer myself, and wasn't really a part of that.

[dropforge]

Twitter which is a kingdom of assholes.

[dgtlman]

I am really THE OMEGA MONKEY!!!!! A$$wipes!

[mozo-pg]

I am really THE OMEGA MONKEY!!!!! A$$wipes!

You forgot to add that Porcupine Tree Sucks!

[mozo-pg]

I love this site. Everything about it. One think Lino said to me is treat each post as it is coming from a friend - don't make negative assumptions. I've made friend here offline. I love learning about music and events that I greatly benefit from. Sean, Duncan, and Cosy deserve a lot of credit for hosting us for all these years.

[Steve F.]

On the other hand, I have the feeling in the old days PE felt far more like a community.

To who? And for what reason(s)?

I don't come here for 'community' and I never came here or the community; I come here to discuss an aspect of music that interests me and that some other people are interested in, as well as to see what people are thinking about said music(s).

There's definitely less trolls here now. We lost some interesting posters as well, but we have also gained some and I am perfectly aok with it not feeling as 'clubby' and 'support the scene'y.

It works for me. YMMV.

[Trane]

I guess what I'm saying is, PE (and the older generation in general...) has disappointed me in general in huge ways in the last .... oh I dunno ... 6 years? If you wanted an exact date, maybe Nov. 8th 2016. But who knows. And yeah, you can say I'm being a whiny loser or whatever, I dont care -- but Ive been through so much in the last 2 years -- literally half my family + 2 close friends all died between Mar 2020 and July 2021 -- can you really fucking blame me if all I wanted to do was listen to a new Yes song again? Yet half of you folks act like someone shot your mom in the face because Jon Davison exists.

I suppose you mean the 65+ generation (to which I like to include myself in, despite being in the age of the punk/Gen X generation in terms of age) and not just those inside PE.

I can imagine that for <35 YO, the "Woodstock generation" might've become similar today to what was that generation's parent generation. Yes, the Summer Of Love didn't manage to revolutionize totally the way this planet is run, but the partial successes garnered made that you'd find the soup even more distasteful if it hadn't happened at all. Sooo personally I refuse the younger generation's accusal of a poor balance-sheet, whether ecological or social.

Other than that, I don't know how PE is responsible for your life general disillusionment and family life hardships
(I just lost an aunt and an uncle in one week mid september, but haven't expected PE to save my autumn, nor have I searched its support).

OK, so maybe my sardonic humour has been forgotten here. My post was meant to be a little tongue-in-cheek. You don't need to change my mind any more than I need to elaborate. I went away because this site no longer scratched a certain itch. Then, yesterday, out of the blue, I decided to check back in. After browsing a few of the threads I use to follow and seeing some of the same old banter being thrown about, my knee-jerk reaction was my post above, in what I thought was a humorous tone. As you were...

Your "lengthy absence" didn't seem a total one (at least to me), nor was it that long ago - but you'd know that better than me. I seem to remember sporadic and short appearances on PE in the last couple of years. And your sardonic tone (which I generally like) did strike me as a bit aggressive as a first post back. If I'd had been in your shoes, I might've chosen to prolong the absence of posts until a better mood passed over you.

Feel free to tell me off and mind my own beeswax.

I don't feel the bond with this place that I once did. A good part of that is how I've changed and my tastes have changed. Some of it is the blend of folks; there are fewer trolls, but also some names who left that I genuinely miss. I never used to concern myself with the political leanings of other posters, but due to the realities of the last few years, now I am uncomfortably aware of those divisions and reasonable or not, it HAS changed the nature of the room. Shorter fuses, people who seem to be itching to start a fight or to draw lines...everyone thinks they're the ones on the right soapbox, but most times they're wrong. IMHO, and shouted from my own junky soapbox to be clear.

Yup, I've seen very-present posters (it became more clear who was amongst them once the post counter clicked-in) and some have now disappeared from the early top 5 PE posters after +/- lengthy absences, and have recently returned. I imagine that their post count would near the 15K if they hadn't slowed down or stopped.
We all encounter lower interest periods in whatever activity we have.
I, on the other hand and fairly often of late, am wondering "why bother?" before hitting the submit button. And in recent months (maybe a year), I've clicked on cancel instead. Never been absent from the places I usually post in, but for the last few months, PE is not necessarily the first place I check out when I surf the grid, as it (PE) was for a decade +.

Speaking as a 53-year-old of left wing political views I find my own generation pretty disappointing too, but I don't really see the current PE populace as exemplifying the problem.

I dunno about gatekeeping but my general impression is that 'old days' PE was a lot more abrasive, and people were more often dismissive of music they didn't approve of, than is the case today.

On the other hand, I have the feeling in the old days PE felt far more like a community.

well it took (still takes?) some balls & grits to hang in and survive in PE. Many PA members have tried to join and (for some, thankfully) failed.
But indeed, there was a spirit of community I'd not really seen before during the PE2.0 days, that seems less present nowadays.

==================

Hasn't PE (1.0) turned 20 late last year?

[moecurlythanu]

Kingdom of Assholes would be a good prawg album title.

The cover art would be epic.

[Flightwave]

I love this site. Everything about it. One think Lino said to me is treat each post as it is coming from a friend - don't make negative assumptions. I've made friend here offline. I love learning about music and events that I greatly benefit from. Sean, Duncan, and Cosy deserve a lot of credit for hosting us for all these years.

This.