I bought each of these 'garage' boxes as they came out and I've enjoyed a lot of the 5.1 mixes over the years. Particularly stuff like Cinema Show, Slippermen, etc... but for normal stereo listening, I'm glad I hung on to the previous mixes for most titles - either the '94 Definitive Edition remasters or the original Atlantic CDs in most cases. I totally agree that the original mixes should be available for those who want them. Of course, you can find most of them for reasonable prices used.
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I haven't listen to the stereo mixes on my main system which has an extremely accurate and forgiving high end. I was listening to And then there were three stereo remix in my car audio this week and I was turned off by the exagerated highs.Originally Posted by JJ88
Sitting crossed legs on the floor, 25 or 6 to 4
That's my biggest problem with the 76-82 box. Particularly hi-hats and cymbals are some of the harshest I've heard in a pro mix. Sadly, it's my favorite drummer doing my favorite drumming. The Gabriel box is much better, but Davis still loves his treble knob and that's been the case with all his Genesis mixes I've heard.
I was also on the Amazon glitch and got 2 Genesis Box Sets for $30.
I did read a few years ago that John Burns (who co-produced Selling England & The Lamb with Genesis) hated the Nick Davis remixes & remastering of the albums.
And Steven Wilson has no intent to resurrect the original bass balance because he tries too hard to match the original constrained dynamic range. Not thru compression, just not compensating for the compression that happened when recording the original.
Sitting crossed legs on the floor, 25 or 6 to 4
So did he listens to the SACDs in 5.1. Funny thing about a lot of old people, any change is bad.
Sitting crossed legs on the floor, 25 or 6 to 4
I don't think so, he has produced a lot of different artists. I think the Collins Genesis albums have hot treble compared to a lot of rock, except Ken Scott productions like Supertramp. Then with Collins on top of David, you get what you have on the stereo mixes which are by definition more compressed because all the power is crammed on to 2 channels instead of 6.
Sitting crossed legs on the floor, 25 or 6 to 4
Look at all of these different recordings he engineered:
http://www.nickdavis.org.uk/credits.html
Sitting crossed legs on the floor, 25 or 6 to 4
I like the '76-'82 vinyl set. Sounds much smoother and much less brittle. "Duke" finally sounds decent ! Again, just my opinion.
I cannot comment on how the records sound, what you say may well be true.
Unless they suddendly find the lost album between Foxtrot and SEBTP, it's going to take quite a lot to offer for me to ever buy another Genesis album (maybe an extended version of Genesis Live and another of Seconds Out)
I still got the 70's vinyls, the first gen mix (the picture discs boxsets), the mini-lp and the green 5.1 boxset (along with the TotT 5.1...
my music collection increased tenfolds when I switched from drug-addicts to complete nutcases.
The extended version of Genesis Live with 'Supper's Ready' should be on an official CD by now. Amazing that it isn't. In that live box, which I didn't get, they bizarrely added unrelated songs from the Lamb Shrine '75 show as bonus tracks. Some will say, 'well there were already two versions of Supper's Ready on the box', I would say so what. There were four live albums in that set which featured The Musical Box...two only in medleys, but still.
Personally,i think Nick Davies did a great job on the 5.1s and stereo mixes,although the god Wilson has done some fine work in this sphere, after the botched up job he did on Steve Hacketts back catalogue, i hope he stays away from the Genesis material.
Yes an opinion about your system.
Sitting crossed legs on the floor, 25 or 6 to 4
Yeah, that was what I was trying to say here. The remixes I heard on Spotify were *abysmal*!
I'm playing the SEBTP one now. It's not as bad as the Collins-era stereo mixes, I guess Gabriel had some input on what he wanted out there as there was a longer-than-expected delay at the time for this box (the only box I bought). But it doesn't gel as well as the original mix- there is also way too much treble, particularly on the cymbals IMHO.
The transition between Hackett's acoustic on the end of 'The Cinema Show' into 'Aisle Of Plenty' has been botched in some way, not as well done as on the original.
Why do you always pounce on anyone who says anything even vaguely negative about these remixes? Are you Nick Davis or a relative?? Why does it matter so much to you??
Last edited by JJ88; 02-18-2017 at 12:04 PM.
On the remix, they took out one of my favorite Rutherford moments when they dialed down his bass during the climax of "Fountain of Salmacis".
Last edited by Rickenbacker; 02-18-2017 at 11:52 AM.
^I think an entire guitar line was completely missing-in-action on '...Hogweed' in the instrumental section. That album had various other alterations too- mostly cosmetic like a removed 'click' in 'The Musical Box' and a small bass/cymbal bit in 'Seven Stones' just before Banks' Mellotron crescendo.
This is another reason why I feel it is wrong that these are now the default versions. Over the course of the catalogue a lot of things are missing that were on the originals.
Why do you have an obsession with people who like the remixes?I'm playing the SEBTP one now. It's not as bad as the Collins-era stereo mixes, I guess Gabriel had some input on what he wanted out there as there was a longer-than-expected delay at the time for this box (the only box I bought). But it doesn't gel as well as the original mix- there is also way too much treble, particularly on the cymbals IMHO.
The transition between Hackett's acoustic on the end of 'The Cinema Show' into 'Aisle Of Plenty' has been botched in some way, not as well done as on the original.
Why do you always pounce on anyone who says anything even vaguely negative about these remixes? Are you Nick Davis or a relative?? Why does it matter so much to you??
And why do you have problem with anybody who questions whether your perspective is your own?
I have a problem with narrow imprecise critiques of any sort.
I understand the nitpicks about editing, but why if the original is out there would anybody be upset with anybody attempting to resurrect superior sound quality from existing multichannel tapes. There is an obsession with providing false representation of these remixes.
Sitting crossed legs on the floor, 25 or 6 to 4
Last edited by Firth; 02-18-2017 at 12:31 PM.
Please find where I have made comments about people's systems when they like the remixes, as you have done when people don't. You had the same crusade on the old board with Jeff Carney.
For the record I have no problem with anyone that likes these mixes.
They aren't, unless you buy them second hand- that's the point. So anyone buying the albums new will end up with these.
I had some very minor quibbles with some of Nick Davis' mixing preferences of the Genesis albums but they're heavily outweighed IMO by the improvements on the PG-era albums, especially Nursery Cryme, Trespass and The Lamb which to my ears sounded more and more dated (and not in a good way haha) as time went by. I still have all the originals of Trespass through Duke but haven't listened to them at all since the remixes came out.
The SACD 5.1 mixes are the best sound quality possible if you have a system that can handle the dynamic range, of which there is more than on the stereo.
Sitting crossed legs on the floor, 25 or 6 to 4
I think Davis ruined the stereo mix of Lamb -- have not heard 5.1 surround. All the mystery is gone from the album. PG's vocals are way up front and way too stark -- miss the reverb that gave it the aforementioned mysterious sound. Although I like hearing more of what Hackett is doing, I'm finding that Tony is shoved back a bit much. Again, this is the stereo mix.
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