Songs like "So Long Ago, So Clear" by Vangelis and Jon Anderson

**regenerativemusic** · 01-06-2017

Anyone know any songs like "So Long Ago, So Clear" by Vangelis and Jon Anderson?

**Svetonio** · 01-07-2017

**2steves** · 01-07-2017

No song like this---this was a great song by Vangelis and JA----other than classic Yes---he did some very strong work with Vangelis---but they had a horrible falling out and Vangelis never spoke to JA again. Which was a shame for JA because he needs strong collaborators---like Vangelis or Howe or Squire or Rick or PAtrick or Bruford to really shine.

**lovecraft** · 01-07-2017

Originally Posted by 2steves

No song like this---this was a great song by Vangelis and JA----other than classic Yes---he did some very strong work with Vangelis---but they had a horrible falling out and Vangelis never spoke to JA again. Which was a shame for JA because he needs strong collaborators---like Vangelis or Howe or Squire or Rick or PAtrick or Bruford to really shine.

For all his supposed hippie credentials didn't Anderson start approving and Jon and Vangelis releases without the approval of his partner?

**Enid** · 01-07-2017

Originally Posted by 2steves

No song like this---this was a great song by Vangelis and JA----other than classic Yes---he did some very strong work with Vangelis---but they had a horrible falling out and Vangelis never spoke to JA again. Which was a shame for JA because he needs strong collaborators---like Vangelis or Howe or Squire or Rick or PAtrick or Bruford to really shine.

I was unaware of this

**Steve983** · 01-07-2017

Olias is classic of course, not much of the material on the other Jon & Vangelis albums ever quite reached those heights sadly. Maybe Horizons from Private Collection?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=koBC3MA7kOA

**Paulrus** · 01-07-2017

Their first album together, Short Stories, carries through some of that vibe. So do various songs scattered throughout their other albums and Anderson's solo work. Do some digging.

**Victorian Squid** · 01-07-2017

If you've already gotten all of the Jon & Vangelis albums (Short Stories is full of similar songs), then one song I can think of on Jon's solo stuff is Song of Seven. I think Olias was not nearly as soaring as So Long Ago So Clear, it's a much more psychedelic affair. Vangeles always kept his arrangements much more sparse.

For some weird reason - as unrelated as they are I always got the same sort of feeling from the Cluster & Eno song The Belldog.

**Digital_Man** · 01-07-2017

I would suggest "the Italian song."

Anyway, what album is "so long ago, so clear" from? I don't see it listed in the J&V discography.

**Stevie B** · 01-07-2017

Originally Posted by Digital_Man

I would suggest "the Italian song."

Anyway, what album is "so long ago, so clear" from? I don't see it listed in the J&V discography.

It's the last five minutes or so of "Heaven and Hell Part I" from the Vangelis album of the same name...

**Digital_Man** · 01-07-2017

Yeah ok. Actually I looked it up after I posted the question but decided others might want to know as well.

**Paulrus** · 01-07-2017

I first encountered "So Long Ago, So Clear" on a Vangelis best of LP that I got in the 80s. I assumed it was from the Short Stories era because it sounded so similar, but I remember being blown away when I learned they recorded it much earlier in 1975. It suddenly made a lot more sense why Anderson was lobbying for Vangelis to replace Rick in '74.

**yesstiles** · 01-09-2017

Similar songs by Jon & Vangelis:

"Each and Everyday"

"Love Is"

"Outside of This"

**happytheman** · 01-09-2017

Originally Posted by Paulrus

I first encountered "So Long Ago, So Clear" on a Vangelis best of LP that I got in the 80s. I assumed it was from the Short Stories era because it sounded so similar, but I remember being blown away when I learned they recorded it much earlier in 1975. It suddenly made a lot more sense why Anderson was lobbying for Vangelis to replace Rick in '74.

As much as I enjoy all of Jon's work with Vangelis I can easily see where the Yes connection wouldn't have worked. Vangelis' is such an independant force he and Howe would have clashed from day one.. But back to the question at hand.. there are several songs on each release that captures the vibe of So Long.. My most recent discovery was Page of Life.. read about all the controversies for so many years and kept waiting to find a copy at a reasonable price in order to see what all the fuss was about.. ended up getting both versions just to cover my bases.. "Any one can light a candle" hits the mark for sure.. and of course if you already have Change we must you've heard several other songs that came from that same period. Only fault I've ever had with any of the J&V catalog is for whatever reason Jon "forces" his lyrics at times.. Never knew him to be anything other than fluid with his words throughout the Yes catalog but he tries to hard in a few cuts throughout the J&V catalog to get an extra word in where it simply doesn't need to be..thus the results sound hurried.. Maybe a bit of extra time composing the lyrics he could have found a different way of getting them to "fit" the music Vangelis had already written..

**yamishogun** · 01-09-2017

Originally Posted by happytheman

Never knew him to be anything other than fluid with his words throughout the Yes catalog but he tries to hard in a few cuts throughout the J&V catalog to get an extra word in where it simply doesn't need to be.

A less fluid lyrical moment from "That, That Is", 1996:

Julie's sick and tired of her job n'all the reasons lately
She took it out on God and laid her soul to hell and let the baby die
Julie's child was born without a need or a reason for being
She took it as a message from a real and a distant life

Shirley gets to help her with the child though she's strung out on crack time
Shirley never knew what it was to be held in real love
Together getting high to get to mess up their night
Anything to get up so they're losing their mind
Just to get high, breaking out from this life, gotta get them a drug to get higher

**Kcrimso** · 01-09-2017

Originally Posted by yamishogun

A less fluid lyrical moment from "That, That Is", 1996:

Julie's sick and tired of her job n'all the reasons lately
She took it out on God and laid her soul to hell and let the baby die
Julie's child was born without a need or a reason for being
She took it as a message from a real and a distant life

Shirley gets to help her with the child though she's strung out on crack time
Shirley never knew what it was to be held in real love
Together getting high to get to mess up their night
Anything to get up so they're losing their mind
Just to get high, breaking out from this life, gotta get them a drug to get higher

Great moment! Love it! Really.

**Kai** · 01-09-2017

Originally Posted by happytheman

Only fault I've ever had with any of the J&V catalog is for whatever reason Jon "forces" his lyrics at times.. Never knew him to be anything other than fluid with his words throughout the Yes catalog but he tries to hard in a few cuts throughout the J&V catalog to get an extra word in where it simply doesn't need to be..thus the results sound hurried.. Maybe a bit of extra time composing the lyrics he could have found a different way of getting them to "fit" the music Vangelis had already written..

Perhaps the difference is in that with Yes Anderson was usually centrally involved in writing the music and thus able to push and pull it to fit his lines. At least some of Yes's distinctive rhythmic and melodic feel comes from having to conform to Anderson's vocal delivery (Olias of Sunnhillow shows this effect as well, but that is suppose to be in an alien language

). Peter Hammill is another good example of the same effect. I don't think either of them are actually that fluid, and that unnaturalness, sometimes actual angularity is what makes them so good.

With Vangelis, he probably had to use what he was given and, for one reason or other, didn't have the time or didn't want to work on them (cramping his style?). I understand Short Stories was essentially improvised in a few days time. The lyrics for the likes of ”Curious Electric” sound just as much off-the-cuff improvisations than Vangelis ”channellings” they accompany.

**Paulrus** · 01-09-2017

Originally Posted by Kai

With Vangelis, he probably had to use what he was given and, for one reason or other, didn't have the time or didn't want to work on them (cramping his style?). I understand Short Stories was essentially improvised in a few days time. The lyrics for the likes of ”Curious Electric” sound just as much off-the-cuff improvisations than Vangelis ”channellings” they accompany.

My understanding was that was their standard operating procedure on all their albums -- there was a lot of spontaneous improvising going on from both of them that would get cleaned up and polished afterwards, but much of it was done pretty quickly.

Page of Life is an interesting one because it sounds to me like a greater share of the songs were written independently and brought to the sessions. Vangelis was definitely in the zone as a composer back in those days. Anderson was such an ijit to sabotage that relationship.

**Kai** · 01-09-2017

Originally Posted by Paulrus

My understanding was that was their standard operating procedure on all their albums -- there was a lot of spontaneous improvising going on from both of them that would get cleaned up and polished afterwards, but much of it was done pretty quickly.

Page of Life is an interesting one because it sounds to me like a greater share of the songs were written independently and brought to the sessions. Vangelis was definitely in the zone as a composer back in those days. Anderson was such an ijit to sabotage that relationship.

Yes, Vangelis has stated that a lot of his music, especially from the 80s on, has essentially been composed and recorded at the same time. With a modus operandi like that, I can imagine him doing a couple of piece and then saying to Anderson: ”Okay, you do your lyrics and vocals now. I'll be in the other room, writing a symphony or two meanwhile.”

On Page of Life, there's notably more of those instrumental bits that are probably all Vangelis, while ”Is It Love” is Anderson solo with session musicians. I'm sure some tracks on earlier albums started out with Anderson rather than Vangelis. Even on the first album you could imagine something like ”The Road” could have begun with Anderson singing and strumming along on his guitar.

**happytheman** · 01-11-2017

Originally Posted by yamishogun

A less fluid lyrical moment from "That, That Is", 1996:

I'd say some of KTA lyrics parallel Mag lyrics in the same way.. Whats the one about the father walking out on his kid.. Don't Go perhaps? Forced I'd say..