Synthesizer Gear Porn ;-)

[Rarebird]

If you're referring to the Yamaha CP70 that supplanted his RMI electronic piano, it was an actual piano with real strings and all, but with guitar-like transducers amplifying it. The result was a very "particular" sound. I'm sure that having real piano action and sound was a godsend for a lifelong piano player like Tony. The only other instruments that really offered a "weighted" piano action and full dynamics were electric pianos like the Wurlitzer and Fender Rhodes, which didn't sound like "real" pianos and may not have been what you were looking for (I guess Tony didn't think that sound was to his personal taste). And not all electric pianos even had touch sensitivity (the suction-pad version of the Hohner Pianet, for example).

I remember having some sort of electronic piano (Musinco), which was defenitly not touchsensitive. I think Wim Mertens has used something like that (Crumar) on one of his first albums. Those didn't sound like a piano at all.

[Czyszy]

it was an actual piano with real strings and all [...] the Wurlitzer and Fender Rhodes, which didn't sound like "real" pianos

The Yamaha CP70/CP80 had strings while Fender Rhodes has tines and the Wurlizer had reeds.

[Jimmy Giant]

Kawai also made a CP70 style piano. My friend in 805 had one and he said he preferred that over the Yamaha because it stayed in tune when you dismantled it.

[Czyszy]

Kawai also made a CP70 style piano. My friend in 805 had one and he said he preferred that over the Yamaha because it stayed in tune when you dismantled it.

Whoa! That's cool. I didn't know. Probably because there aren't any famous musicians that used any of the Kawai ep-x08 pianos. Crazy. Another dowside to the fact Kawai ep "electric grand" pianos weren't so popular is that there is a total of 0 sample libraries based off those pianos. :_:

[Jimmy Giant]

I mean, it sounded like a CP70, sooooooooooo.....
Use those samples?
I have a CP70 sample set I got from Prominy a long time ago that sounds fantastic. Kontakt instrument. Large and hi res.

I think the Kawai may have sounded a little brighter. I saw 805 probably a hundred times in the early 80's (Syracuse) so I got to hear that piano a lot. Plus Ed was a friend of mine, to which I would loan him my Prophet 5 when his was down. So we had talked a lot about keys and music. Glad I didn't have to move that damn thing though.

[Plasmatopia]

Exclusive to Cubase? You think Toontrack would shoot themselves in the foot? xD That would only happen if Steinberg-Yamaha bought the company off. But even then they would more likely just make Superior Drummer a Cubase-native plugin instead of crippling its functionality for non-Cubase users. xd

On the official Toontrack channel, you're only gonna find Pro Tools DAW if any.

Not a single official promo/demo/trailer with Cubase (at least from what I've managed to watch so far). xD Most of the promotional videos on the official channel use the stand-alone versions of their virtual instruments, which is a clever way for Toontrack to do as little free advertising of third-party DAWs as they can.

If you open up the Superior 3.0 VST and go to Settings --> Advanced and look down at the bottom of the screen you'll see what I'm talking about. Apparently this is just to output 32 mono tracks though. It specifically mentions Cubase and Nuendo.

[TheNefariousHED]

Je suis un batteur electrique!

[Czyszy]

If you open up the Superior 3.0 VST and go to Settings --> Advanced and look down at the bottom of the screen you'll see what I'm talking about. Apparently this is just to output 32 mono tracks though. It specifically mentions Cubase and Nuendo.

I don't feel like spending €400 just so I can help you figure out a basic thing. Sorry. Have you watched the tutorial I linked?

[Progbear]

I remember having some sort of electronic piano (Musinco), which was defenitly not touchsensitive. I think Wim Mertens has used something like that (Crumar) on one of his first albums. Those didn't sound like a piano at all.

Electronic, as opposed to electric, pianos were a completely different animal. Tony used an RMI, which was electronic (i.e.: it used audio oscillators rather than hammers striking some sort of sound-producing item). It was one of the better ones, but still wasn't a really convincing "piano" sound. Crumar made a whole bunch of them, including a few later ones with crude velocity sensitivity, but they all pretty much sounded like someone stomping on a bee's nest. I guess the most prominent user of Crumar electronic pianos was Dr. John, who used a Jazzman on his biggest hits ("Right Place, Wrong Time," "Such a Night").

Whoa! That's cool. I didn't know. Probably because there aren't any famous musicians that used any of the Kawai ep-x08 pianos. Crazy. Another dowside to the fact Kawai ep "electric grand" pianos weren't so popular is that there is a total of 0 sample libraries based off those pianos. :_:

Magma used a Helpinstill electric piano. Helpinstill made both an upright and a grand model, the latter being quite rare (I've only seen a picture of one, and its weird triangular tube legs, in one of Julian Colbeck's keyboard review books). Baldwin had their "Electro-Piano," which was one of their spinet piano models with a transducer on the soundboard, which pre-dated Yamaha's CP-series of electric pianos. Michael Quatro is the only keyboardist I know for sure that used one. I also understand that Barcus-Berry, who made the custom electric string instruments for ELO, Jean-Luc Ponty, et al, would amplify acoustic pianos on a custom basis from the beginning.

[Jimmy Giant]

I used to borrow an RMI piano playing with a band in high school (1980-2). Awful sound, but it was either that or my Whirly A200, which I had to use when I couldn't get the RMI. Used to have to open the top of the RMI frequently to tease something loose in it that would drop out the sound. Never figured out the actual problem. But hey, who had money when you were a middle class high school student? I was lucky to borrow money from my folks for a Moog Prodigy and pay it back eventually with a paper route.
There weren't any good electronic pianos back then, at least as far as I was concerned. I had used an Ultravox EP for a while and that wasn't very good either, though it was a lot more portable than the RMI. F@#% I'm old!

[Progbear]

↑I think you mean Univox, which was the American distribution company that rebadged Crumar (and Korg) instruments for the American market.

I remember having some sort of electronic piano (Musinco), which was defenitly not touchsensitive. I think Wim Mertens has used something like that (Crumar) on one of his first albums. Those didn't sound like a piano at all.

According to someone on another messageboard, the Musinco M300 is a rebadged Crumar Roadrunner.

[Rarebird]

Electronic, as opposed to electric, pianos were a completely different animal. Tony used an RMI, which was electronic (i.e.: it used audio oscillators rather than hammers striking some sort of sound-producing item). It was one of the better ones, but still wasn't a really convincing "piano" sound. Crumar made a whole bunch of them, including a few later ones with crude velocity sensitivity, but they all pretty much sounded like someone stomping on a bee's nest. I guess the most prominent user of Crumar electronic pianos was Dr. John, who used a Jazzman on his biggest hits ("Right Place, Wrong Time," "Such a Night").



Magma used a Helpinstill electric piano. Helpinstill made both an upright and a grand model, the latter being quite rare (I've only seen a picture of one, and its weird triangular tube legs, in one of Julian Colbeck's keyboard review books). Baldwin had their "Electro-Piano," which was one of their spinet piano models with a transducer on the soundboard, which pre-dated Yamaha's CP-series of electric pianos. Michael Quatro is the only keyboardist I know for sure that used one. I also understand that Barcus-Berry, who made the custom electric string instruments for ELO, Jean-Luc Ponty, et al, would amplify acoustic pianos on a custom basis from the beginning.

The first, more or less usable pianosound I had, was from my Bit 99. In parts the Yamaha TX81Z also could do a relatively nice job, at least compared to my Musinco. The Proteus/1 was the frst thing that really sounded like a piano. Of cause, compared to my sampler and now the Arturia, it wasn't that good, but at the time, I liked it and used it a lot.

[hFx]

Until the first good truly multisampled piano came (GigaPiano, remember? Needed a PC and a good soundcard) I relied first on the piano samples in an EMU Emax and later the Roland U-series pianos (featured in U-20, D-70 and some later). I had the Emu Proformance too, and while the samples were much more natural sounding than the more artificial sounding Roland U-pianos, the Rolands were processed in such way that the sound was homogeneous over the keyboard. Each of the samples in the Proformance had their own distinct sounds, making it more or less unplayable for less dense playing...

[Jimmy Giant]

↑I think you mean Univox, which was the American distribution company that rebadged Crumar (and Korg) instruments for the American market.



According to someone on another messageboard, the Musinco M300 is a rebadged Crumar Roadrunner.

Yeah, that was it. Guess I was thinking of the band!

[Jimmy Giant]

EMU Proformance was great at the time. I used that live for a while and was the best option I had. I couldn't afford to use the memory in the EPS16+ or the Emax for piano.

[Czyszy]

As a proud Zillennial, by the time I began my music journey (2009) all those EMU's, Ensoniqs, Aleses* and other pieces of early digital equipment were passé. The Korg M3, Motif XS and Roland Fantom G were the big kids on the block. I couldn't afford a flagship Workstation so for my first hardware ROMpler thingy my mom bought me (keep in mind, I was around 13 years old at the time) a Yamaha MO6.

Back then sample-based plugin instruments were very basic, and soundfonts (.sf2) still ruled the world. So buying a hardware workstation/sound module was the best solution for someone to get equipped with all those "bread & butter" sounds.

A few years later, I got myself the Roland SD-50 sound module/audio interface to not only expand my sound palette but also to finally have a proper audio interface for recording audio in tolerable quality (prior to that I used very makeshift recording methods)

As time went on, and software plugin techmology advanced, I would switch to using more and more in the box solutions until I finally said goodbye to my ROMplers.

*plural for Alesis

[hFx]

On the subject of pianos and live - I toured briefly with a progressive band in the early 80s and we had this wonderful keyboard guy that we came to hate more and more. The reason was his Yamaha CP-70! First of all it was a drag to transport and carry around - required the whole band! Then we had to set it up first of all the gear and while the rest of us unloaded and set up all the other the gear, PA and lighting, the keyboard guy sat calmly by his CP-70 as it had to be tuned it before each gig... Such a relief when the samplers came about (albeit not as much loved for playing).

[battema]

On the subject of pianos and live - I toured briefly with a progressive band in the early 80s and we had this wonderful keyboard guy that we came to hate more and more. The reason was his Yamaha CP-70! First of all it was a drag to transport and carry around - required the whole band! Then we had to set it up first of all the gear and while the rest of us unloaded and set up all the other the gear, PA and lighting, the keyboard guy sat calmly by his CP-70 as it had to be tuned it before each gig... Such a relief when the samplers came about (albeit not as much loved for playing).

I scored a Fender Rhodes 73 and a Korg CX-3 from a guy @ a studio while doing a session thing (he let me have both for $150 provided I didn't ask him to help me move them ). The Rhodes thrilled me as I was with a band at the time where it would work well....and then I realized what it would take to haul it to/from every gig Damn was it heavy and fickle (it clearly hadn't been maintained in this studio). The first time in my life I found myself yearning for roadies! Even broke a toe when I ran into it one evening in my apartment. Eventually had to part ways, although I do kind of wish I'd been able to keep it longer, as I probably could afford to have it restored now.

The CX-3 though...that thing was amazing. Worked fantastically well onstage and cut through just about any mix.

I still have some of my late 80's/90's gadgets and synths, although wherever possible I've tried to obtain sample libraries to cover those sounds just to reduce some of the challenges with maintaining that (choke) 20-30 year old vintage gear.

[pstrawser]

I scored a Fender Rhodes 73 and a Korg CX-3 from a guy @ a studio while doing a session thing (he let me have both for $150 provided I didn't ask him to help me move them ). The Rhodes thrilled me as I was with a band at the time where it would work well....and then I realized what it would take to haul it to/from every gig Damn was it heavy and fickle (it clearly hadn't been maintained in this studio). The first time in my life I found myself yearning for roadies! Even broke a toe when I ran into it one evening in my apartment. Eventually had to part ways, although I do kind of wish I'd been able to keep it longer, as I probably could afford to have it restored now.

The CX-3 though...that thing was amazing. Worked fantastically well onstage and cut through just about any mix.

I still have some of my late 80's/90's gadgets and synths, although wherever possible I've tried to obtain sample libraries to cover those sounds just to reduce some of the challenges with maintaining that (choke) 20-30 year old vintage gear.

Dude what a score! Especially looking at the prices of Rhodes (and Wurlies in particular) nowadays! I got my first one in 1995 for $220 and my obsession with them has yet to abate. Pretty much changed my life.

Curious how you think the CX3 stands up to the VK7. I’ve heard only the most glowing comments about the CX3…..not so much the VK. I picked up a VK several years ago and used it extensively for gigging…..and there was always something about it that didn’t quite cut it. Not sure I could explain what though.

Oh! And John, you’ll be pleased to know I just scored another QS7 a few weeks back for $100!

[pstrawser]

This discussion about old-school electric/electronic pianos has reminded me that I’ve always wondered why on earth the RMI ever saw any widespread use in the 70s.

I understand that the technology of the day was limited…..but man, that thing just doesn’t sound very good to me…..or, it doesn’t sound very good if, in my head, I want it to compare to a Wurly or Rhodes or any of the electro-mechanical offerings of the time. I wasn’t around back then, so I should probably keep my mouth shut. And admittedly, being on this side of history, I don’t think some songs would sound right without it (70s Genesis and Yes stuff in particular, but also “You’ve Made So Very Happy” by Blood Sweat and Tears, and tons of other). But it’s always perplexed me.

Then I found this really cool article (this may be common knowledge to you guys, but this was new to me):

https://www.soundonsound.com/reviews...-retrozone?amp

I’d read about Tony Banks’ “organ mode” and MXR Phaser signal chain. But reading about the Jon Lord rig thing kinda blew my mind.

And the RMI does have a certain vibe, which I’ve come to enjoy on its own terms.

Still…..hearing that RMI played by Keith Jarrett on some of the Miles’ stuff is unlistenable to me. Ugh!

Then again, I just heard Corea use it on Kilimanjaro a bit and that sounded pretty good. So I guess I go back and forth on this point.

Of course, when the DX7 replaced the Rhodes and Wurlitzer, that became a thing too. I never thought I could listen to the E Piano preset and like it, much less use it in my own playing. But I’ve grown to really enjoy those sounds too, probably due to the burgeoning 80’s nostalgia movement that’s possessed men of my age the last 10 years.

Funny how that all works!

Still….I’ll take my Rhodes Suitcase any day over the RMI.

[Jimmy Giant]

For playing a "real" rock piano cover, the Whirly and Rhodes never sounded right. As bad as the RMI sounded, it fit more into those piano pieces. I REALLY hate to use Freebird as an example, but a Whirly just didn't work with that, but the RMI did. You get my point, as harsh as I had to make it
I wish I kept my A200 though. Way back when, I had broken some reeds and couldn't find replacements, so it got shitcanned. Discovered later on that I could have found them. DOH! I would've kept it and rebuilt the amp to something half way decent.
I had an original CX3 and it sounded good live. Now I have a CX3 V2 for sale as I got an XK1c and a Ventilator2 now. The V2 is much better than the original, though the leslie and distortion still don't cut it.

[battema]

This discussion about old-school electric/electronic pianos has reminded me that I’ve always wondered why on earth the RMI ever saw any widespread use in the 70s.

I understand that the technology of the day was limited…..but man, that thing just doesn’t sound very good to me…..or, it doesn’t sound very good if, in my head, I want it to compare to a Wurly or Rhodes or any of the electro-mechanical offerings of the time. I wasn’t around back then, so I should probably keep my mouth shut. And admittedly, being on this side of history, I don’t think some songs would sound right without it (70s Genesis and Yes stuff in particular, but also “You’ve Made So Very Happy” by Blood Sweat and Tears, and tons of other). But it’s always perplexed me.

Then I found this really cool article (this may be common knowledge to you guys, but this was new to me):

https://www.soundonsound.com/reviews...-retrozone?amp

I’d read about Tony Banks’ “organ mode” and MXR Phaser signal chain. But reading about the Jon Lord rig thing kinda blew my mind.

And the RMI does have a certain vibe, which I’ve come to enjoy on its own terms.

Still…..hearing that RMI played by Keith Jarrett on some of the Miles’ stuff is unlistenable to me. Ugh!

Then again, I just heard Corea use it on Kilimanjaro a bit and that sounded pretty good. So I guess I go back and forth on this point.

Of course, when the DX7 replaced the Rhodes and Wurlitzer, that became a thing too. I never thought I could listen to the E Piano preset and like it, much less use it in my own playing. But I’ve grown to really enjoy those sounds too, probably due to the burgeoning 80’s nostalgia movement that’s possessed men of my age the last 10 years.

Funny how that all works!

Still….I’ll take my Rhodes Suitcase any day over the RMI.

Some of my all-time favorite albums were largely done on those "cheesy" 80's synths and there's not a single note or sound I'd change. Loved 'em then, still love 'em now

As much as I love my synths, they're just tools. In the right hands, even a supposedly "bad" synth can yield something remarkable (and vice versa, I've heard folks with massive stacks who still can't polish a turd ).

But yes...I have my favorites. I also have places where I find myself wishing they'd tried a different synth or patch. Sometimes it's not "I wish they'd done analog/vintage" but the opposite, I wish they'd expanded past the same old staples in some places!

Anyway, if anyone needs me I'll be in the corner listening to Underwater Sunlight with dropforge

[dropforge]

Anyway, if anyone needs me I'll be in the corner listening to Underwater Sunlight with dropforge

Wheeeeee! A pod o' Kawai dolphins!

[Plasmatopia]

I don't feel like spending €400 just so I can help you figure out a basic thing. Sorry. Have you watched the tutorial I linked?

Sorry, apparently there was some miscommunication because I don't need any help at all. This is not something I need to do and I've already watched a couple videos that explain it. I was merely pointing out a feature I'd come across. You seemed to doubt Cubase would be mentioned by name anywhere within a Toontrack VST and I was just addressing that.

cubase.jpg

[pstrawser]

For playing a "real" rock piano cover, the Whirly and Rhodes never sounded right. As bad as the RMI sounded, it fit more into those piano pieces. I REALLY hate to use Freebird as an example, but a Whirly just didn't work with that, but the RMI did. You get my point, as harsh as I had to make it
I wish I kept my A200 though. Way back when, I had broken some reeds and couldn't find replacements, so it got shitcanned. Discovered later on that I could have found them. DOH! I would've kept it and rebuilt the amp to something half way decent.
I had an original CX3 and it sounded good live. Now I have a CX3 V2 for sale as I got an XK1c and a Ventilator2 now. The V2 is much better than the original, though the leslie and distortion still don't cut it.

Yeah I think I know what you mean. I certainly approach acoustic piano, Rhodes, and Wurly differently, as a player.....and with the right approach, the RMI seems like it could mimic an acoustic piano a bit.

Wait.....so, is there a Wurly on Freebird? I never noticed that! Need to go back and listen....