Synthesizer Gear Porn ;-)

[Gizmotron]

Believe it or not, that's true for me too! Admittedly, that lust often loses out to the other two, but I do try

Fortunately, I am untroubled by a desire for neat and tidy. Lol.

And yes, finances are not what they used to be, so most of my acquisitions happened well in the past, although I do manage to find a great deal every so often. (For instance, that previously-mentioned Roland JX-8p with the odd faults that my pal had did eventually get donated to me.)

[Rarebird]

As for tidy, I'm not sure what my instruments have to do with it.

[Gizmotron]

As for tidy, I'm not sure what my instruments have to do with it.

I think what Battema was referring to (and absolutely what I was referring to) is the difference between one of those open, airy, tidy Synth Studios where there is space aplenty, and a fairly modern-looking aesthetic. The place feels welcome and calming. Whereas my Studio has every nook and cranny stuffed with gear. There are no open surfaces. One has to carefully slink past several keyboards to enter the central area, and then in order to access the Neil Peart size drum set one has to slink past the backside of yet another triple-rack of keyboards. The wiring is…a mess. Cables everywhere! It does not look “tidy.” The place feels…cluttered, yet people that like gear generally think I have a rather cool place to play. Lol

The rest of our house IS neat and tidy, and I keep a very clean kitchen despite cooking and baking a lot. So one can be “tidy” in one’s life but still have a rather wild and untamed hobby room.

[Rarebird]

I think what Battema was referring to (and absolutely what I was referring to) is the difference between one of those open, airy, tidy Synth Studios where there is space aplenty, and a fairly modern-looking aesthetic. The place feels welcome and calming. Whereas my Studio has every nook and cranny stuffed with gear. There are no open surfaces. One has to carefully slink past several keyboards to enter the central area, and then in order to access the Neil Peart size drum set one has to slink past the backside of yet another triple-rack of keyboards. The wiring is…a mess. Cables everywhere! It does not look “tidy.” The place feels…cluttered, yet people that like gear generally think I have a rather cool place to play. Lol

The rest of our house IS neat and tidy, and I keep a very clean kitchen despite cooking and baking a lot. So one can be “tidy” in one’s life but still have a rather wild and untamed hobby room.

More or less the same here, though my livingroom is far from tidy. It's clean, but not really tidy. I spend most time in what I would call my music-room, or studio, or perhaps the most expensive room, where my computers, harddisk multitrackrecorder, stereo and instruments are located. My sofa is quite cluthered, but well, I don't get visiters, so... what's the use of tidying up?

[Rarebird]

This looks nice.



Looking at the reactions, no real gearheads. People complaining that a laptop with Nord Modular, or Arturia software can do the same or more.
I wish I could downvote those reactions.

[battema]

This looks nice.



Looking at the reactions, no real gearheads. People complaining that a laptop with Nord Modular, or Arturia software can do the same or more.
I wish I could downvote those reactions.

The synth looks amazing. I didn't bother looking at the comments

I will say...the guy sounded like he was reading from a script he wrote by hand, and could barely understand his own handwriting

[Rarebird]

The synth looks amazing. I didn't bother looking at the comments

I will say...the guy sounded like he was reading from a script he wrote by hand, and could barely understand his own handwriting

Yeah, He is defenitly the opposite of Dr. Mix.

It has MPE, which would probably make it interesting. I don't get the complaints about a lack of a keyboard. You can connect any device that is capable to send MPE-information and that feels comfortable.

[battema]

IMHO it's a weak complaint: If someone doesn't already own an MPE controller, they'll have to spend even MORE money in order to fully maximize the value of the Pool. Except if the Pool also had an integrated MPE controller...it would cost MORE so....not really a strong argument

Also, and this is very much my personal opinion: MPE is a little more personal. MIDI keyboards are of a type; some have weighted action, some are plastic + springs, some have aftertouch, and sometimes you might even get polyphonic aftertouch ala the Hydrasynth, or the new Native Instrument controllers. But still...it's a piano interface at the core.

MPE introduces a lot more nuance. For example, a traditional piano keyboard isn't going to replicate the Y-axis of MPE. And if it uses typical attack velocity then aftertouch is literally additional pressure at the very bottom of the keybed. The Osmose cannot do Y "naturally" and instead has two separate layers of "touch" which can be a little weird/jarring for typical players. The Roli and other instruments retain the Y but aren't true keyboards and can be harder to play comfortably.

And then you have stuff like the Linnstrument and Haken Continuum, which are completely non-keyboard surfaces that require considerable effort to play well, or are suited to players with a different musical background (the Linnstrument is particularly "logical" for guitar/bass/fretted instrument players).

Long story short, I actually think it's smart to NOT integrate a specific controller but to let folks choose whichever one makes the most sense. Many folks will simply go with a standard or polyAT MIDI controller because it's likely what they already have. This way, the Pool can satisfy any of them

Well, in my weird little opinion anyway

[Rarebird]

IMHO it's a weak complaint: If someone doesn't already own an MPE controller, they'll have to spend even MORE money in order to fully maximize the value of the Pool. Except if the Pool also had an integrated MPE controller...it would cost MORE so....not really a strong argument

Also, and this is very much my personal opinion: MPE is a little more personal. MIDI keyboards are of a type; some have weighted action, some are plastic + springs, some have aftertouch, and sometimes you might even get polyphonic aftertouch ala the Hydrasynth, or the new Native Instrument controllers. But still...it's a piano interface at the core.

MPE introduces a lot more nuance. For example, a traditional piano keyboard isn't going to replicate the Y-axis of MPE. And if it uses typical attack velocity then aftertouch is literally additional pressure at the very bottom of the keybed. The Osmose cannot do Y "naturally" and instead has two separate layers of "touch" which can be a little weird/jarring for typical players. The Roli and other instruments retain the Y but aren't true keyboards and can be harder to play comfortably.

And then you have stuff like the Linnstrument and Haken Continuum, which are completely non-keyboard surfaces that require considerable effort to play well, or are suited to players with a different musical background (the Linnstrument is particularly "logical" for guitar/bass/fretted instrument players).

Long story short, I actually think it's smart to NOT integrate a specific controller but to let folks choose whichever one makes the most sense. Many folks will simply go with a standard or polyAT MIDI controller because it's likely what they already have. This way, the Pool can satisfy any of them

Well, in my weird little opinion anyway

That was my opinion as well. No keyboard might be better than being stuck with a keyboard you don't like, or you might prefer another kind of controller, especially with MPE. And well, every kind of instrument might have it's keyboardpreferences. For piano I prefer a weighted keyboard, but for synthesizers I might prefer a lighter keyboard.
It's a bit like with that new Arturia Astra Lab. I would defenitly prefer a larger keyboard.

[battema]

Yeah...my current "master" controller is an old Alesis QS8 synth with weighted action. I'm actually fairly impressed that it's held up so well almost 30 years later! But, if someone were to release a reasonably-priced 88-note weighted synth with polyphonic aftertouch, I might go for it. I believe either Korg or Yamaha has one at the moment but the price tag is insane and in truth, I mostly use it just for piano (for convenience...I can practice my chops without having to fire up the computer and a VST, etc.).

[Rarebird]

Yeah...my current "master" controller is an old Alesis QS8 synth with weighted action. I'm actually fairly impressed that it's held up so well almost 30 years later! But, if someone were to release a reasonably-priced 88-note weighted synth with polyphonic aftertouch, I might go for it. I believe either Korg or Yamaha has one at the moment but the price tag is insane and in truth, I mostly use it just for piano (for convenience...I can practice my chops without having to fire up the computer and a VST, etc.).

A weighted 88-note with polyphonic aftertouch would be nice. One could play piano and add some stringsynthesizer with the aftertouch. I'm still happy with my M-Audio Keystation Pro 88.

[battema]

A weighted 88-note with polyphonic aftertouch would be nice. One could play piano and add some stringsynthesizer with the aftertouch. I'm still happy with my M-Audio Keystation Pro 88.

Yep, agreed! Five years ago if someone asked me if it was possible I'd have said "nope" but there's definitely been a bit of a bump in interest in those expressive features...so, we'll see if some manufacturer comes through

[Rarebird]

Yep, agreed! Five years ago if someone asked me if it was possible I'd have said "nope" but there's definitely been a bit of a bump in interest in those expressive features...so, we'll see if some manufacturer comes through

Who knows. And then I need to improve my keyboardskills. But it would be nice to play piano and add some synhesizer in the slower parts.

[dropforge]

…I was wrong…it is not thirty synths. It is actually thirty-seven

When's the next garage sale?

[Nijinsky Hind]

When's the next garage sale?

I’m so behind the curve here… let me know when you get rid of some stuff. As I said, all I own is a Yamaha electric piano and an MPK mini and a few guitars. I’ve watched just about every YouTube tutorial about the MPKmini and you can squeeze a lot out of them with the many VST’s available. But some are a bit complicated. The air hybrid III is my go to for ‘sounds’. I refuse to use beatmaker software. Most of it isn’t worth learning.

[battema]

I’m so behind the curve here… let me know when you get rid of some stuff. As I said, all I own is a Yamaha electric piano and an MPK mini and a few guitars. I’ve watched just about every YouTube tutorial about the MPKmini and you can squeeze a lot out of them with the many VST’s available. But some are a bit complicated. The air hybrid III is my go to for ‘sounds’. I refuse to use beatmaker software. Most of it isn’t worth learning.

Ha, well probably a bit of subjectivity in that last comment, although I do understand where you're coming from

I enjoy taking dives into complex gear, just to see what may be possible. During the early part of the pandemic, I watched almost 11 hours of tutorials for one particularly-complex synth (the EaganMatrix, the engine within the Osmose and Haken Continuum synths). It wasn't always easy and a few videos I had to watch 2-3 times to make sure a concept really sank in. But the end results were a stronger appreciation of the synth engine. So for ME personally, it was time well spent.

But YMMV. Neither is better or worse than the other

[Gizmotron]

You all endlessly entertain and inform me!

I fully agree that Poly aftertouch really should be more common. Those Native Instruments controllers really intrigue me. Something new would be a thrill (says the guy that just put his ancient Yamaha KX-88 back in the rig).

As far as controllers, the more I see and play, the more room I see for the need for more features on “traditional” controllers as well encouraging all of the non-traditional controllers such as the Linn controller and other similar, more tactile surface controllers that allow for all of the MPE wonders.

Garage sale? I would love to just sell off that EX-800 and let someone else either use a MIDI-modifier to change the key or fix it. Ditto for the Roland JX-8P. The case and keys are immaculate, but the internal quirks mean it needs a doctor. But otherwise, I am not quite ready to get rid of the active stuff.

[Rarebird]

Ha, well probably a bit of subjectivity in that last comment, although I do understand where you're coming from

I enjoy taking dives into complex gear, just to see what may be possible. During the early part of the pandemic, I watched almost 11 hours of tutorials for one particularly-complex synth (the EaganMatrix, the engine within the Osmose and Haken Continuum synths). It wasn't always easy and a few videos I had to watch 2-3 times to make sure a concept really sank in. But the end results were a stronger appreciation of the synth engine. So for ME personally, it was time well spent.

But YMMV. Neither is better or worse than the other

I think you are right. I really should take the time to dive a bit deeper in the more complex VST-synthesizers I have.

You all endlessly entertain and inform me!

I fully agree that Poly aftertouch really should be more common. Those Native Instruments controllers really intrigue me. Something new would be a thrill (says the guy that just put his ancient Yamaha KX-88 back in the rig).

As far as controllers, the more I see and play, the more room I see for the need for more features on “traditional” controllers as well encouraging all of the non-traditional controllers such as the Linn controller and other similar, more tactile surface controllers that allow for all of the MPE wonders.

Garage sale? I would love to just sell off that EX-800 and let someone else either use a MIDI-modifier to change the key or fix it. Ditto for the Roland JX-8P. The case and keys are immaculate, but the internal quirks mean it needs a doctor. But otherwise, I am not quite ready to get rid of the active stuff.

I can imagine. Some of my stuff, like my Proteus/1 has some quirks as well, but I don't know anyone who can repair it, I'm not sure it's worth the money and I feel to attached to it. It even took a very long time till I threw out my Bit99.

[battema]

You all endlessly entertain and inform me!

I fully agree that Poly aftertouch really should be more common. Those Native Instruments controllers really intrigue me. Something new would be a thrill (says the guy that just put his ancient Yamaha KX-88 back in the rig).

When the venerable Jimmy G is back from his terra adventure, he can probably offer thoughts as I believe he went for a MkIII with polyAT from Native. I don't think all his feedback to me was....enthusiastic

It would be nice to see more widely supported....but I also have to admit, I've become a bit spoiled by the Osmose. Having that aftertouch not literally be added pressure but literally additional travel time per key is amazing and far easier to control (musically speaking) than any other keybed I've tried. The cost is that whereas on a "normal" keybed there's a very clear, firm "strike" point where initial velocity is recorded...on the Osmose that point exists but it's much softer.

It's hard to describe, but imagine pressing down on mattress with a pillow-top and memory foam core. The pillow top feels lighter and easier to go through...the memory foam isn't a hard stop or anything but you definitely notice just a bit more resistance. That's how the Osmose distinguishes the initial key travel (lighter resistance) and the aftertouch key travel (more firm but still not a HARD resistance). That was actually the thing that was hardest to adapt to with playing the Osmose...I had to get used to not having my fingers "hard stopped." Took a bit, but I've gotten the hang of it and the results are really cool

[Rarebird]

When the venerable Jimmy G is back from his terra adventure, he can probably offer thoughts as I believe he went for a MkIII with polyAT from Native. I don't think all his feedback to me was....enthusiastic

It would be nice to see more widely supported....but I also have to admit, I've become a bit spoiled by the Osmose. Having that aftertouch not literally be added pressure but literally additional travel time per key is amazing and far easier to control (musically speaking) than any other keybed I've tried. The cost is that whereas on a "normal" keybed there's a very clear, firm "strike" point where initial velocity is recorded...on the Osmose that point exists but it's much softer.

It's hard to describe, but imagine pressing down on mattress with a pillow-top and memory foam core. The pillow top feels lighter and easier to go through...the memory foam isn't a hard stop or anything but you definitely notice just a bit more resistance. That's how the Osmose distinguishes the initial key travel (lighter resistance) and the aftertouch key travel (more firm but still not a HARD resistance). That was actually the thing that was hardest to adapt to with playing the Osmose...I had to get used to not having my fingers "hard stopped." Took a bit, but I've gotten the hang of it and the results are really cool

I can imagine that. I'm used to a weighted keyboard, because I started with piano. One problem I have is controlling velocity, either it gets ppp, or ff and not much inbetween. I know that a harpsichord feels completely different, like you are moving through something. I never tried this out. I know someone who has a harpsichord, but I'm defenitly not going to ask her. She is a professional musician and teaches at the conservatory of The Hague.

[battema]

I can imagine that. I'm used to a weighted keyboard, because I started with piano. One problem I have is controlling velocity, either it gets ppp, or ff and not much inbetween. I know that a harpsichord feels completely different, like you are moving through something. I never tried this out. I know someone who has a harpsichord, but I'm defenitly not going to ask her. She is a professional musician and teaches at the conservatory of The Hague.

It's true, even with a "normal" weighted keyboard the velocity curve can vary. I think that's why I've stayed with the Alesis QS8 for so long...it's not that it's the BEST weighted keyboard, but I'm familiar with the action and know how to get the right responses.

[Jimmy Giant]

Hey all, back after a lovely week in Quebec City for Terra Incognita. Was our 9th, but would've been our 12th had Covid not killed it for 3yrs. Stoopid pandemic. Bands were outstanding as always. In addition to RPWL were 2 Italian bands that were incredible, Lifestream and RanestRane. All glorious ear candy!

So anyhoo... polyAT. First, as Batts tried to explain, its not real easy to explain the feel of the Osmose. I think that was about as good as you can. I've never felt anything like it. I do like it though, even though I haven't put a lot of time into it yet. Programming will indeed be a bear.

As for NI. I had the MKII S61 for some time, but I only used it as a desktop keyboard, never really diving into the NI aspect of it. That said though, I did upgrade to a MKIII and have played around with the VST control portion of it. Both have good feeling keybeds. Not sure the upgrade was worth it for me though. The main reason is that this still isn't ready for prime time. Native Access 3 has been a disaster. It wasn't ready for release and it's still got problems after 9(?) months. Also Kontrol takes a lifetime to boot up. Every time. Not all the VSTi advertised as working through the keyboard actually are. For the ones that do work (non NI), the background screen of many instruments are blank, where they should have a picture of the instrument. I have very many that won't load, even though they're supposed to be NKS compatible. So for just the polyAT of the MKIII, not worth it. Lots of better options. But I do have a nice clean MKII to sell.

I also have a JP-08 to sell (since someone wanted a heads up). i bought 2 so I could link them together. That didn't go well. First, the second unit only kicks in after 4 notes have played on the first, so it's not integrated at all. Second, the compounded noise is unusable. As with any USB powered device, the ground loops are a deal breaker. You can use batteries to get around this. I actually wired micro-b usb adapters to the battery terminals so i can use a charger to power them and using midi instead of usb. But i don't need 2 of these. They've been discontinued for a while now. But they are nice little units and sound great.

[battema]

So I watched this video earlier today and found it really insightful. In particular, I liked how Lippold acknowledged that the EaganMatrix is much more of an "instrument designer" than "sound designer" approach, and that they are working to shift that a bit going forward. Having used both a Continuum and an Osmose for a while now, I do think that's true: creating sounds in the EaganMatrix is more like writing application code than developing a timbre. And I'm very curious to see where things go from here.

[battema]

Hey all, back after a lovely week in Quebec City for Terra Incognita. Was our 9th, but would've been our 12th had Covid not killed it for 3yrs. Stoopid pandemic. Bands were outstanding as always. In addition to RPWL were 2 Italian bands that were incredible, Lifestream and RanestRane. All glorious ear candy!

So anyhoo... polyAT. First, as Batts tried to explain, its not real easy to explain the feel of the Osmose. I think that was about as good as you can. I've never felt anything like it. I do like it though, even though I haven't put a lot of time into it yet. Programming will indeed be a bear.

As for NI. I had the MKII S61 for some time, but I only used it as a desktop keyboard, never really diving into the NI aspect of it. That said though, I did upgrade to a MKIII and have played around with the VST control portion of it. Both have good feeling keybeds. Not sure the upgrade was worth it for me though. The main reason is that this still isn't ready for prime time. Native Access 3 has been a disaster. It wasn't ready for release and it's still got problems after 9(?) months. Also Kontrol takes a lifetime to boot up. Every time. Not all the VSTi advertised as working through the keyboard actually are. For the ones that do work (non NI), the background screen of many instruments are blank, where they should have a picture of the instrument. I have very many that won't load, even though they're supposed to be NKS compatible. So for just the polyAT of the MKIII, not worth it. Lots of better options. But I do have a nice clean MKII to sell.

I also have a JP-08 to sell (since someone wanted a heads up). i bought 2 so I could link them together. That didn't go well. First, the second unit only kicks in after 4 notes have played on the first, so it's not integrated at all. Second, the compounded noise is unusable. As with any USB powered device, the ground loops are a deal breaker. You can use batteries to get around this. I actually wired micro-b usb adapters to the battery terminals so i can use a charger to power them and using midi instead of usb. But i don't need 2 of these. They've been discontinued for a while now. But they are nice little units and sound great.

Welcome back and glad it was a grand time!!

[Jimmy Giant]

Thanks brother. Love my Canadian visits, especially when there's choice music to be had. And Poutine!