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Thread: And the best Black and White movie ever is:

  1. #3951
    Quote Originally Posted by Hal... View Post
    I agree, but only to an extent. The first time I saw the movie, that scene wasn't in it. But (a) I saw that he had a child-like innocence when throwing daisies in the water, so the intent to sympathize wasn't lost, and (b) I don't think it completely changed the meaning of the scene. No, we don't see his confusion over what just happened nor do we see his remorse/panic. We do, however, fill in the missing piece. That is, that he killed her. In the censored version, the reason is a mystery. And yes, that changes the narrative a bit, but only a bit. And in one respect it also strengthens our understanding that he's an abomination, moreso than the uncensored version. Whether he kills accidentally or on purpose is, ultimately, immaterial.

    When I did see the restored version, a few years after, I didn't really have any epiphany or anything. The movie does work much better with it intact – sorta. But I don't think the censored version is horrible. Indeed, if you look closely, you can tell James Whale edited the movie, a form of self-censorship one could say. I'd wager large sums that he filmed the girl thrashing about in the water just before she drowns. If true, I'd argue the scene is more impactful with that included. The fact that it isn't makes me feel the Hays censoring isn't all that bad. And as I said, in subsequent viewings I found that scene humorous... and still do; it never fails to make me laugh (it has to do with how the girl flips over, falling face first, spread eagle). So, in that respect, it doesn't work. It's a perfect example of an unintentional laugh. Of course, I'm viewing it from the perspective of late 20th/early 21st century standards. Had I seen the intact version in 1931, I might have a different opinion.
    "Whether he kills accidentally or on purpose is, ultimately, immaterial.."

    I have to totally disagree with that. The restored scene has never made me laugh. His reaction is incredibly intense.

    The way I recall the censored scene is that they play by tossing daisies into the water. He runs out of daisies, looks at her, and, from what I recall, growls. I am pretty sure the growl was overdubbed later. The next we see is her father carrying her dead body through the town square. My impression all those years was that he got angry and killed her in some violent way. There was zero indication that is was an innocent and playful gesture. His panic and remorse revealed something that was absent from the rest of the movie.
    "The White Zone is for loading and unloading only. If you got to load or unload go to the White Zone!"

  2. #3952
    Quote Originally Posted by boilk View Post
    Definitely a classic that was, to me, light years beyond Dracula in many ways.

    Neil
    As much as I love "Dracula," I agree. IMO, it's more about style and atmosphere than anything, compared to "Frankenstein." The character development is virtually nil.
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  3. #3953
    Member Staun's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hal... View Post
    I refer to Cooper as "Mr Cardboard". But, as Jed said, he was great in Sergeant York.

    My dad thought Harrison Ford was the same.
    Agree. To be honest, I feel the same about Alan Ladd. He and Cooper are too restrained for films. SY has never moved me.
    The older I get, the better I was.

  4. #3954
    Member since 7/13/2000 Hal...'s Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Staun View Post
    To be honest, I feel the same about Alan Ladd.
    Not a great actor, no, but I think he was excellent in Shane, his best movie.
    “From thirty feet away she looked like a lot of class. From ten feet away she looked like something made up to be seen from thirty feet away.” – Philip Marlowe

  5. #3955
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    Shane is a classic. I watched another (colour) Alan Ladd one called Whispering Smith a while back which was pretty decent, though hardly in Shane's league. I keep meaning to watch some of those Film Noir ones Ladd did.

  6. #3956
    Found two more to add to my meager list. It was up to 23 with Young Frankenstein added to it. I give you Johnny Got His Gun and King Rat.

    George Segal in Rat was pretty good and Johnny, well, it is what it is. Not great, not awful but does it's job.
    Carry On My Blood-Ejaculating Son - JKL2000

  7. #3957
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    Quote Originally Posted by TheLoony View Post
    Found two more to add to my meager list. It was up to 23 with Young Frankenstein added to it. I give you Johnny Got His Gun and King Rat.

    George Segal in Rat was pretty good and Johnny, well, it is what it is. Not great, not awful but does it's job.
    I really like Johnny Got His Gun. Flaws, yes, but very dramatic and when it hits, it hits hard.

    Neil

  8. #3958
    Member Lopez's Avatar
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    A couple days ago I watched Of Mice and Men, the version with Gary Sinise and John Malkovich. Had seen it years ago. Loved it then and love it now. So I figured I'd watch the original black and white version with Burgess Meredith and Lon Chaney, Jr. Wow, is that good! Lon is wonderful as Lenny. The way he uses his eyes to show puzzlement. The newer version shows more of the action and the effects are more modern, such as the blood running down Curley's hand as Lenny crushes it, which you don't see in the original. But still, the black and white shows the starkness of the ranch and the hopelessness of the workers (and Curley's wife) more than the color does.
    Lou

    Looking forward to my day in court.

  9. #3959
    Gaslight is on TCM right now. I'm just catching the end.

    A Streetcar Named Desire is next
    "The White Zone is for loading and unloading only. If you got to load or unload go to the White Zone!"

  10. #3960
    March is always a great month for TCM. Right now, it's the wildly funny "His Girl Friday" (1940), and after that "Mildred Pierce" (1945) with Joan at her best.
    "The White Zone is for loading and unloading only. If you got to load or unload go to the White Zone!"

  11. #3961
    Quote Originally Posted by ronmac View Post
    March is always a great month for TCM. Right now, it's the wildly funny "His Girl Friday" (1940), and after that "Mildred Pierce" (1945) with Joan at her best.
    Despite His Girl Friday having the rep of being one of the greats I never really cared for it. Passed last night.

  12. #3962
    Member since 7/13/2000 Hal...'s Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by nycsteve View Post
    Despite His Girl Friday having the rep of being one of the greats I never really cared for it. Passed last night.


    I say we revoke his Classics Cinephile membership card.

    All those in favor?

    “From thirty feet away she looked like a lot of class. From ten feet away she looked like something made up to be seen from thirty feet away.” – Philip Marlowe

  13. #3963
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    Quote Originally Posted by ronmac View Post
    and after that "Mildred Pierce" (1945) with Joan at her best.
    That's one I watched a while ago and thought it was great.

  14. #3964
    Quote Originally Posted by Hal... View Post


    I say we revoke his Classics Cinephile membership card.

    All those in favor?

    IIRC in the past you revealed you hadn't seen some classic movies so ubiquitous as to raise eyebrows. I made no calls for expungement from Classic Cinephile . I call illegal harassment . I refuse to like something just because the powers that be say it must be so.

  15. #3965
    Quote Originally Posted by nycsteve View Post
    Despite His Girl Friday having the rep of being one of the greats I never really cared for it. Passed last night.
    The dialogue is exhausting.
    "The White Zone is for loading and unloading only. If you got to load or unload go to the White Zone!"

  16. #3966
    Member Jerjo's Avatar
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    That classic patter banter of some old films drives me nuts. Feels like I'm watching a community theater production.
    I don't like country music, but I don't mean to denigrate those who do. And for the people who like country music, denigrate means 'put down.'- Bob Newhart

  17. #3967
    Neither lead is appealing to me. The dialog becomes annoying. And worst of all it is boring to me. There are frenetic movies I enjoy , this not being one.

  18. #3968
    Member since 7/13/2000 Hal...'s Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by nycsteve View Post
    IIRC in the past you revealed you hadn't seen some classic movies so ubiquitous as to raise eyebrows. I made no calls for expungement from Classic Cinephile . I call illegal harassment .


    Quote Originally Posted by ronmac View Post
    The dialogue is exhausting.
    Wow.

    Quote Originally Posted by Jerjo View Post
    That classic patter banter of some old films drives me nuts. Feels like I'm watching a community theater production.
    Double wow.
    “From thirty feet away she looked like a lot of class. From ten feet away she looked like something made up to be seen from thirty feet away.” – Philip Marlowe

  19. #3969
    Member since 7/13/2000 Hal...'s Avatar
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    The Sheepman (1958) on TCM. In gorgeous Metrocolor.

    Not sure why I watched it since it stars Glenn Ford, whom I've never liked for some reason. Also stars Shirley MacLaine, Leslie Nielson, Edgar Buchanan, and Slim Pickens in a small role. Directed by George Marshall, better known for Destry Rides Again and The Blue Dahlia.

    It's the typical sheepman vs cattlemen kind of western with a few tropes sprinkled in here and there. Except this one has a lead character that's smarter than just about everyone else and a script that's really well written. This might be Glenn Ford's best role. I can't believe I'm about to say this but I actually found him likable. Shirley MacLaine plays the love interest that's your typical cowgirl. Leslie Nielsen plays "The Colonel", who's the heavy and is engaged to MacLaine. Edgar Buchanan is typecast but that's okay; who doesn't like Edgar Buchanan?

    I thought this was really entertaining. And nothing stupid happens in it, either, which I find rare in most westerns.

    You can stream it on TCM's app.
    “From thirty feet away she looked like a lot of class. From ten feet away she looked like something made up to be seen from thirty feet away.” – Philip Marlowe

  20. #3970
    Member Staun's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hal... View Post
    The Sheepman (1958) on TCM. In gorgeous Metrocolor.

    Not sure why I watched it since it stars Glenn Ford, whom I've never liked for some reason. Also stars Shirley MacLaine, Leslie Nielson, Edgar Buchanan, and Slim Pickens in a small role. Directed by George Marshall, better known for Destry Rides Again and The Blue Dahlia.

    It's the typical sheepman vs cattlemen kind of western with a few tropes sprinkled in here and there. Except this one has a lead character that's smarter than just about everyone else and a script that's really well written. This might be Glenn Ford's best role. I can't believe I'm about to say this but I actually found him likable. Shirley MacLaine plays the love interest that's your typical cowgirl. Leslie Nielsen plays "The Colonel", who's the heavy and is engaged to MacLaine. Edgar Buchanan is typecast but that's okay; who doesn't like Edgar Buchanan?

    I thought this was really entertaining. And nothing stupid happens in it, either, which I find rare in most westerns.

    You can stream it on TCM's app.
    Seen it a couple of times. I like Ford’s westerns. Jubal is one of my favorites along with 3:10 to Yuma. I think he would have done a great job with Shane. He sure likes his cowboy hat. Shows up a lot.
    The older I get, the better I was.

  21. #3971
    Member since 7/13/2000 Hal...'s Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Staun View Post
    Jubal is one of my favorites along with 3:10 to Yuma.
    Didn't care for Jubal and I thought 3:10 to Yuma would have been a lot better had Ford not been in it.

    I don't know what it is but I just do not like that man.
    “From thirty feet away she looked like a lot of class. From ten feet away she looked like something made up to be seen from thirty feet away.” – Philip Marlowe

  22. #3972
    Member Jerjo's Avatar
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    I tried to find The Sheepman on Max (where TCM has their own section) and couldn't find it. As far as Glenn Ford goes, I don't mind him. I liked him in 3:10 to Yuma and of course, Gilda (though there was a MAJOR distraction in Gilda - oh, that hair toss).
    I don't like country music, but I don't mean to denigrate those who do. And for the people who like country music, denigrate means 'put down.'- Bob Newhart

  23. #3973
    Member Staun's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hal... View Post
    Didn't care for Jubal and I thought 3:10 to Yuma would have been a lot better had Ford not been in it.

    I don't know what it is but I just do not like that man.
    Hal, I feel the same way about Casablanca but everyone says I must be crazy.
    The older I get, the better I was.

  24. #3974
    Quote Originally Posted by Staun View Post
    Hal, I feel the same way about Casablanca but everyone says I must be crazy.
    uh-oh
    "The White Zone is for loading and unloading only. If you got to load or unload go to the White Zone!"

  25. #3975
    Member since 7/13/2000 Hal...'s Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jerjo View Post
    I tried to find The Sheepman on Max (where TCM has their own section) and couldn't find it.
    If you have a relative or friend who gets TCM through their cable subscription, you can use their cable login to access TCM's app. I use my brother's, so that's how I can stream TCM.

    Holy shit! On a whim, I searched to see if it was streaming anywhere else and found it on YouTube!

    “From thirty feet away she looked like a lot of class. From ten feet away she looked like something made up to be seen from thirty feet away.” – Philip Marlowe

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