No doubt. I'm not suggesting he wasn't good. And I fully expected to get beat up over my post.Originally Posted by Staun
Well, I gotta admit partner, there's some mighty good Wayne in them there titles.
No doubt. I'm not suggesting he wasn't good. And I fully expected to get beat up over my post.Well, I gotta admit partner, there's some mighty good Wayne in them there titles
"The White Zone is for loading and unloading only. If you got to load or unload go to the White Zone!"
A lot of well regarded actors stuck to their schtick pretty well, how versatile was Bogey? The bulk of his work is the same character in various scenerios. The same applies to the likes of Clint Eastwood , and many others. Many actors develop an on screen personality that pigenholes them voluntarly or not into repeating a winning formula over and over. How different is Bogey's character in Casablanca , To Have and Have Not ,and Key Largo ? Wayne inhabited his persona well in a variety of movies . I think a lot of dislike for Wayne stems from a rejection of his perceived politics as much as his acting , which by the way was more than adequate.
I'll be your cornerman, Ron.
Wayne was like a lot of stars from the Golden Age. He was capable of carrying a movie but he generally wasn't going to win any awards. He was nominated for Best Actor only three times, winning for True Grit, his best role, imo. Did he deserve it more than Dustin Hoffman in Midnight Cowboy, tho?
“From thirty feet away she looked like a lot of class. From ten feet away she looked like something made up to be seen from thirty feet away.” – Philip Marlowe
My comment was in response to a comment about James Stewart, who played numerous personas and did them all very well. It was a comparison. Context matters, my man.
I actually like Wayne's movies.
And for the record, my comment had nothing to do with his politics.
That award was more about his legacy than that particular role.
"The White Zone is for loading and unloading only. If you got to load or unload go to the White Zone!"
It seems to me that actors, as they age, tend to fall into one persona and stay there. Jack Nicholson certainly did, De Niro has.
I don't like country music, but I don't mean to denigrate those who do. And for the people who like country music, denigrate means 'put down.'- Bob Newhart
Hey, I didn't get a cut man when I went after Cary Grant.
The older I get, the better I was.
I think an actors persona varies by degree from film to film. Make no mistake, they all have one.
The older I get, the better I was.
ronmac ; " My comment was in response to a comment about James Stewart, who played numerous personas and did them all very well. It was a comparison. Context matters, my man.
I actually like Wayne's movies.
And for the record, my comment had nothing to do with his politics. "
I respect your ability to evaluate an actor without being swayed by politics. My point was , that for awhile , especially in the 60s and 70s , Wayne represented the establishment and was dismissed based on his perceived politics by those more unhappy with the status quo than with his acting. In fact he has an impressive body of work and was more nuanced than generally given credit for. Stewart had , or at least exhibited more range in choice of roles with more distance between his opposite personas , IMO. Wayne found a winning formula that enabled him to be at the top of the heap for almost 4 decades . Impressive in an industry that so values youth.
No doubt. Many considered "The Green Beret" a perfect example of Hollywood propaganda.
"The White Zone is for loading and unloading only. If you got to load or unload go to the White Zone!"
Not to mention shitty filmmaking. The movie largely got panned. It was also notorious for the unintentional humor that actual soldiers laughed at, knowing how unrealistic it was. And then, of course, is the scene at the end where Wayne & the boy walk towards the ocean as the sun sets. From my understanding, that scene is supposed to take place near Da Nang, on the east coast, where you only see the sun rise over the ocean.
“From thirty feet away she looked like a lot of class. From ten feet away she looked like something made up to be seen from thirty feet away.” – Philip Marlowe
Its called artistic license.
Or sloppy work.
"The White Zone is for loading and unloading only. If you got to load or unload go to the White Zone!"
Interesting. I suppose this could be looked at as another Uncle Sam wants you poster or, here is the reason why we should be here. David Jansen played the newspaper man who was sent to print the truth and nothing but the truth and in the beginning he did well, but as the film went on, he became more passive and disappeared. I can see where some would think putting Wayne in this role was suppose to say or give a certain impression. Not a good film and absurd at times. Around this time, wasn't there a guy that put out a song called, The Green Berets? Didn't it post high on the music charts at the time? I agree this thing is loaded with propaganda. Hal, Ronmac, would this be considered the fore runner of the Viet Nam films?
The older I get, the better I was.
It did have an interesting cast. Little did George Takei know what was in store for him
The older I get, the better I was.
No , artistic license. I just either read or saw an spot on TCM where a person quoted a famous director who said in essense , the director is creating the world the viewer sees . Geography can be altered in service of the shot or story. Sam Fuller was notorious for this . So I say , artistic license.
TCM has some funny themes for the movies they show. Tonight the theme is the name Alice. They're showing "Bob & Carol & Ted & Alice" (which I've always been curious to see, but I'll bet it's so dated it will seem like a long episode of "Love American Style"), "Alice Doesn't Live Here Anymore" (which probably now seems like a long episode of the sitcom "Alice"), and the Woody Allen movie "Alice."
I've seen some of Allen's stand up stuff when he was doing the college circuit. Pretty funny. Always thought those were more tuned for women. When I was younger I never wanted to get into them.
The older I get, the better I was.
Do you mean women, or Woody Allen movies?
Oh, I was talking about the Alice films. Now that I'm older I could find something in them.Do you mean women, or Woody Allen movies?
The older I get, the better I was.
No, definitely not. At least, I don't think so. Primarily because it didn't deal with it honestly. As you said, it was just propaganda. And I think that really dates it, shows what a dinosaur it was, because those old war movies from the 40s, regardless of how good they were and regardless of how just the war was, were still propaganda and The Green Berets was just like them.
From what I recall, the first two movies that opened up the possibility of directors & studios treating Vietnam frankly and honestly were The Deer Hunter and Coming Home, both of which were released around '78 (I'm going from memory). Apocalypse Now came out in '79. Altho, if you'll recall Richard Dreyfus's character in American Graffiti talked about the war. And that was in '73.
There was also a movie we saw in the early '70s about a young guy who'd been drafted. I remember very little of it except a few things: there's a scene where he goes to a movie with his girlfriend and they see a newsreel-like clip showing the execution of the Viet Cong guy by a South Vietnamese officer; the one where he's shot in the head and you see his blood pour out like a fountain. The young guy, stressed over having to go to Vietnam runs out of the theater and throws up. The guy was played by an actor that was well known on TV at the time and his girlfriend was that really cute blond actress who always had short hair; one of her names was Sandy*, I think. So that kind of portrayed the zeitgeist of the war but I don't think that qualifies.
* Her name was Sandy Duncan. I just looked over her filmography and it wasn't her. And now I'm thinking it was a double bill (we saw it at the drive-in) and the first movie was Duncan's Star Spangled Girl. So maybe I'm conflating the two movies.
I thought maybe the young guy was Richard Thomas but it's not him, either, and I can't think of an actor at that time that was also popular on TV. And, no, it wasn't Ron Howard.
Sorry for the digression. I'd go with The Deer Hunter, even tho it was released after Coming Home, because of the POW scenes in Vietnam. I think the first movie that gave you a real sense of what that war was like was Platoon, tho. Which makes sense because Oliver Stone actually served over there in the Army; we was awarded 8 different medals, including a Bronze Star and two Purple Hearts.
“From thirty feet away she looked like a lot of class. From ten feet away she looked like something made up to be seen from thirty feet away.” – Philip Marlowe
[QUOTE=Hal...;890305]I'd go with The Deer Hunter, even tho it was released after Coming Home, because of the POW scenes in Vietnam.QUOTE]I liked the Deer Hunter. The home scenes were close to where I grew up as a young boy. The words honest and war just have a hard time co existing.
The older I get, the better I was.
Sorry for the screw up in my reply, but, I just couldn't think of any prior VN films before TGB.
The older I get, the better I was.
TGB was released in '68 so there probably wasn't any, afaik. But, naturally I had to check and found this on Wikipedia:
1964 A Yank in Viet-Nam - A USMC pilot is shot down, but meets a female guerrilla; filmed in South Vietnam
1966 To the Shores of Hell - A US Marine officer leads a rescue attempt of his brother who is held prisoner by the Viet Cong
1968 The Green Berets
1970 The Losers - An American motorcycle gang is recruited for a mission into Cambodia
1974 There Is No 13 - Surrealist film involving a young Vietnam War soldier reminiscing about twelve love affairs
1978 The Boys in Company C - A group of Marines go through basic training and a tour of service in Vietnam in 1968
1978 Coming Home. This wasn't on the list but it's about a paralyzed Vietnam vet.
1978 Go Tell the Spartans - US military advisers during the early part of the war
1978 The Deer Hunter
As you can see, there were a few movies about Vietnam before Deer Hunter. But, the only one that I remember having any kind of impact, besides TGB and Coming Home, was The Boys in Company C and even that wasn't a big movie. Most of the rest were B movies that probably came and went without anyone noticing or movies shown only at the drive-in. I guess Go Tell the Spartans starred Burt Lancaster and from what it says on Wikipedia sounds like a decent movie... but I'd never heard of it.
I think one thing's clear: 1978 was the year Hollywood felt it was okay to start making movies about Vietnam. Still, tho, if the first three in '78 put the key in the lock, unlocked the door, and turned the handle, The Deer Hunter kicked the door in.
“From thirty feet away she looked like a lot of class. From ten feet away she looked like something made up to be seen from thirty feet away.” – Philip Marlowe
That's western PA, isn't it? That's pretty country. I've always liked PA.
I forgot to mention, TDH was John Cazale's last movie before he died of cancer. He appeared in four of the biggest and/or best movies of the '70s: The Godfather, The Conversation, The Godfather Part II, and Dog Day Afternoon.
He was also Meryl Streep's boyfriend at the time of his death.
“From thirty feet away she looked like a lot of class. From ten feet away she looked like something made up to be seen from thirty feet away.” – Philip Marlowe
These two pretty much upped the ante. Then the Deer Hunter then raised the it higher and took the pot.1978 The Boys in Company C - A group of Marines go through basic training and a tour of service in Vietnam in 1968
1978 Coming Home. This wasn't on the list but it's about a paralyzed Vietnam vet.
I don't like country music, but I don't mean to denigrate those who do. And for the people who like country music, denigrate means 'put down.'- Bob Newhart
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