'Shine On Brightly' Vs 'Ars Longa Vita Brevis': Which was more influential?

[yoyiceu]

Well, regarding the similarities between Procol and The Band, here are two links from the PH page, Beyond The Pale... Robertson sounds like a great guy here, by the way.

http://www.procolharum.com/the_band.htm
http://www.procolharum.com/the_band.htm

[Trane]

It's the 'roots/blues' side of the band which hasn't aged so well for me. 'Wish Me Well' on here, and also things like 'Juicy John Pink' and 'Crucifixion Lane' on the next one. That's the only gripe I have with these albums, which are otherwise magnificent.

Indeed, there are a few bluesy blunders in some early Procol album, but nowhere near as shocking as on Salty Dog (though I kind of like Crucification Road)

[yoyiceu]

Juicy John Pink, which is very short, for me serves as an adequate change of pace that by its presence enhances the melodious beauty of the other songs of the album. Of course, Procol would later delve into harder blues rock with Whisky Train and other cuts in upcoming albums.

[Scrotum Scissor]

Yes!

No Yeth without Don Anderthon Corleone.

[Scrotum Scissor]

It's the 'roots/blues' side of the band which hasn't aged so well for me.

I basically agree with this, and even Trower has admitted that his Hendrix-aspirations probably weren't truly fitting for the band and should have been confined to his solo career.

[Trane]

I basically agree with this, and even Trower has admitted that his Hendrix-aspirations probably weren't truly fitting for the band and should have been confined to his solo career.

Actually Trower's more-Hendrix-ey moments on Barricades is that album's better tracks, IMHO.

[Progbear]

Well, I’m siding with PH on this one. Both bands were definitely influential, but examine the bands they influenced. PH’s influence was felt over a very diverse set of bands (Genesis, Savage Rose, Supertramp, etc.) that took the groundwork they laid and took it into unique directions.

The Nice, on the other hand, influenced a bunch of organ-fronted bands to make rather kitschy rock adaptations of music from the classical music canon that hasn’t really stood the test of time. And bear in mind, this is a prog fan admitting this.

It's the 'roots/blues' side of the band which hasn't aged so well for me. 'Wish Me Well' on here, and also things like 'Juicy John Pink' and 'Crucifixion Lane' on the next one. That's the only gripe I have with these albums, which are otherwise magnificent.

Would you also include some of the rather tacky joke songs that turned up on their later discs, like “A Souvenir of London” (Tee hee! We’re singing about VD!) or “Fresh Fruit” (Tee hee! We’re singing about...fruit?)?

[at least 100 dead]

The Nice, on the other hand, influenced a bunch of organ-fronted bands to make rather kitschy rock adaptations of music from the classical music canon that hasn’t really stood the test of time.

Ouch! I hope you don't mean Egg?

[Scrotum Scissor]

I hope you don't mean Egg?

Their affection for The Nice was felt on the debut only, AFAIC; from The Polite Force on they were effectively a formalist avant-garde rock trio whose only reminiscent trait towards The Nice was the instrumental format itself (and thus check how Classic Rock Magazine rewarded Egg's albums such pitiful reviews; not enough baroque-out for that crowd). People often make this mistake about Collegium Musicum (Marian Varga's band) as well; they were for long periods of time an "organ trio" dwelling in pseudo-crossover terrains, therefore they "must" have been Emo-informed; the fact is that Varga's dominant obsession was that of postmodernist meta-approaches to all his musical medias, be it romantic or modernist classical, folk chanson, pop etc. Which of course doesn't necessarily mean that folks into The Nice wouldn't enjoy Collegium Musicum - or Egg, for that matter.

[JJ88]

With Procol Harum, I was talking more of the 60s albums. 'Souvenir Of London' never bothered me that much.

[bob_32_116]

Would you also include some of the rather tacky joke songs that turned up on their later discs, like “A Souvenir of London” (Tee hee! We’re singing about VD!) or “Fresh Fruit” (Tee hee! We’re singing about...fruit?)?

You're surely not suggesting that humour doesn't belong in music?

[Calabasas_Trafalgar]

I remember an early Rolling Stone review of A Salty Dog where the reviewer said something like: 'Everybody mentions how strong the first Procol Harum album influenced The Band's debut, but what they don't say is how much that Band's album influenced Shine On Brightly. I'm not sure if he's right, but there's no doubt that there seems to be a 'rural rock' tinge on Shine on Brightly that there wasn't on Procol's first. Of course, that's apart from In Held...', which is still one of my favorite -and most moving- pieces of music ever.

Back in those days the mainstream music press loved The Band. Surprisingly they weren't credited for creating the universe in 7 days, or curing cancer, or establishing world peace! Personally, I found the Band's music, apart from a few odd tracks like "Chest Fever", to be pretty much unlistenable, whereas Procol Harum was thoroughly entertaining. They key element was Gary Brooker's voice. That said, it's Shine on Brightly by ten lengths over ALVB, largely due to the Lee Jackson factor.

[bob_32_116]

Procol Harum and the Band are two bands between which I would never have thought to draw comparisons. I never liked The Band. That overtly American blues-roots sound sets my teeth on edge. I much prefer Robbie Robertson's solo work.

[No Pride]

I think with The Nice, the debut and the 3rd, eponymous album have aged better overall. The latter even has a few retreads on it ('Azrial', the live 'Rondo 69') but I still like it more.

I *do* agree that the "Rondo" was as superfluous as ever, though. Never really liked that track to begin with, as it's little but a showcase for Emerson's playoffs to my ears. By far the most tedious thing on their debut, I think.

I like the original 'Rondo'. Whether another version of it was needed only 2 years later is open to debate.

This is the original Rondo. My Nice albums are long gone with the rest of my vinyl collection, so I don't know if Brubeck was credited on either of those albums, but he should've been.

[A. Scherze]

The Nice, on the other hand, influenced a bunch of organ-fronted bands to make rather kitschy rock adaptations of music from the classical music canon that hasn’t really stood the test of time.

And, also, bands such as Genesis, Yes, PFM, Focus, Le Orme, Triumvirat.

[Rick Robson]

And, also, bands such as Genesis, Yes, PFM, Focus, Le Orme, Triumvirat.

You took the words out of my mouth man.

[zombywoof]

Huh. I've never heard of Shine On Brightly, so I'll go with Ars Longa, although admittedly that is not really an answer to your question.

Odd, I have no idea what Ars Longa is, but I love Shine on Brightly.

[StevegSr]

Odd, I have no idea what Ars Longa is, but I love Shine on Brightly.

[StevegSr]

Back in those days the mainstream music press loved The Band. Surprisingly they weren't credited for creating the universe in 7 days, or curing cancer, or establishing world peace! Personally, I found the Band's music, apart from a few odd tracks like "Chest Fever", to be pretty much unlistenable, whereas Procol Harum was thoroughly entertaining. They key element was Gary Brooker's voice. That said, it's Shine on Brightly by ten lengths over ALVB, largely due to the Lee Jackson factor.

The key to the Band's "hype" was that they were closely related to Dylan and their countrified rock was seen, by the music press, as the sure fire antidote to psychedelic rock. Aside from that, I personally don't know what all the fuss was about. Johnny Cash was a world famous American country artist that time, so why wasn't he given the same accolades by the music press? All just hype, IMHO.

[PeterG]

No Yeth without Don Anderthon Corleone.

WTF???

[Mister Triscuits]

I disagree that the Band was just hype. Their first two albums were just really superb. (They went on a gradual decline after that.) They had a rustic feel, but they weren't simply "countrified." They were never about steel guitars or two-beat bass lines. They had great songwriting, clever lyrics, innovative song structures and arrangements, Garth Hudson's utterly insane keyboards, and three distinctive vocalists. They were a truly great band in their day. And since everything is prog, check out the odd beats and constant stylistic shifts here:

[PeterG]

The Nice overall were far more influential than PH.

[yoyiceu]

The Band did spur a return to basics approach that influenced Clapton -who left his guitar slinger phase to become down home and rural, first with Delaney and Bonnie-, Humble Pie ('Town and Country') and I guess that a lot of pub rock bands in England, not to mention Finland's Wigwam, among others. Maybe even The Beatles in their 'Get Back' mode.

[StevegSr]

I disagree that the Band was just hype. Their first two albums were just really superb. (They went on a gradual decline after that.) They had a rustic feel, but they weren't simply "countrified." They were never about steel guitars or two-beat bass lines. They had great songwriting, clever lyrics, innovative song structures and arrangements, Garth Hudson's utterly insane keyboards, and three distinctive vocalists. They were a truly great band in their day. And since everything is prog, check out the odd beats and constant stylistic shifts here:

Sorry to disagree, but they were quite overrated in my opinion. I don't even own a copy of their albums, except for a best of and that's saying a lot. Their hype may have helped to influence others that have done it better and for that I do at least appreciate them. And if their hillbilly harmonies are not countrified, as well as being clichéd, then I don't know what is.

[JJ88]

This is the original Rondo. My Nice albums are long gone with the rest of my vinyl collection, so I don't know if Brubeck was credited on either of those albums, but he should've been.

I was aware of that, I was talking about the first one Emerson recorded. Emerson did the theme in 4/4 as opposed to, what, 9/8? Brubeck was credited alongside the band.