Crowdfunding and labels

[mogilevs]

Nowadays I sometimes see a situation when a band starts crowdfunding, raises funds and then ... signs to a label. I'm a bit perplexed: I always thought that artists deal with crowdfunding in order to be independent from labels. Can anybody explain?

[rcarlberg]

Examples?

[battema]

If a band explicitly says up front "we are crowdfunding because NUTS TO LABELS," gets their money, and then signs to a label...then sure, that'd be a bit ironic/bemusing. But I never really regarded "avoidance of record labels" as the driving reason for crowdfunding...

[NogbadTheBad]

The examples I've seen have been more about funding production expenses, travel, equipment and the like rather than avoiding a label.

[jamesmanzi]

Nowadays I sometimes see a situation when a band starts crowdfunding, raises funds and then ... signs to a label. I'm a bit perplexed: I always thought that artists deal with crowdfunding in order to be independent from labels. Can anybody explain?

Crowdfunding, or in any way footing the bill for the recording process themselves, allows the band to maintain ownership of the recorded work. Subsequent label deals are for distribution and promotion only.

i.e. EMI owns Marillion's first 8 albums. Marillion owns everything since Anorak, despite the albums being released by various labels, including EMI I believe.

(edited to add I think that should be e.g., not i.e.)

[Yodelgoat]

Labels sometimes agree to distribute an album once it has been created as an indie. Most bands can really create their own albums for minimal costs these days with the advent of basically free software that can replace a studio. Manufacturing CD's is really cheap these days as well. If a Band cant come up with a couple grand on their own, you have to wonder, do they themselves actually believe in their own product?

Cd's are not really selling all that well these days (what is?), so why not just release in digital form? Its not like someone wont have your CD ripped and blasted across the internet within a week of release anyway.

Bands that cannot record without a commercial studio these days are going to find themselves in an ever shrinking minority as music becomes more available thru electronic means. Its just a fact that some refuse to accept. It would be interesting to find out how many labels still provide funding for recording. My guess is most do not. If you spend 20 grand in a studio recording an album, you need to sell what, about 10K cd's in order to just break even? The old established acts can do that, but how does a new band do it without a sales track record? My guess is most Labels would be delighted to sell 10k units from any of their acts.

[jamesmanzi]

You have a remarkably simplistic idea of what goes into writing and recording an album if you think all you need is Garage Band.

[JKL2000]

>> Cd's are not really selling all that well these days (what is?)

Fear

[Steve F.]

>> Cd's are not really selling all that well these days (what is?)

Fear

Jed nails it.

[Yodelgoat]

You have a remarkably simplistic idea of what goes into writing and recording an album if you think all you need is Garage Band.

Yes, it is really that simple. Sorry, its time to wake up and put on your big boy pants. If you expect to spend 20-40 grand in a commercial recording studio and still make money on a project, you are either in an established band, or you in for a very disappointing future. Gawd, I wish I were wrong.

NO NEW BAND CAN INVEST TENS OF THOUSANDS OF DOLLARS IN RECXORDING and EVER EXPECT TO MAKE MONEY. Sorry. I dont even have to bet on it. It is the new reality that everyone except for a very few bunch of dreamers who still think the current marketing strategy is going to produce anything but crap - and there is lots of killer new music out there, but it doesnt come from labels investing in bands and taking them through the A and R process. That model is shite and will not last for another 5 years - if it even exists today.

Please, Tell me where this model is working, besides in a dreamers world. and in the traps where current labels still can convince idiots that they are "the best thing out there"

Where is the support for live music, or for lifting promising, young, unestablished musicians into a future of real musical possibilities? Show me and I will apologize for my lack of faith in the system. But it doesnt exist. There is no system. Just people making music on their own, and labels trying to survive, as best they can, but mostly at the expense of the musicians. God bless the Labels. Without them we would have - well, we would have exactly what we have, except that a few more people would be retiring from being musicians a little more quickly.

I know there are good honest labels out there, I'm not trying to pee on their parade. Good labels have good established bands and that works. But for new acts? its almost guaranteed to be a bust. Labels just dont deal with stuff that cannot hold up its own.

[Troopers For Sound]

Yes, it is really that simple. Sorry, its time to wake up and put on your big boy pants. If you expect to spend 20-40 grand in a commercial recording studio and still make money on a project, you are either in an established band, or you in for a very disappointing future. Gawd, I wish I were wrong.

NO NEW BAND CAN INVEST TENS OF THOUSANDS OF DOLLARS IN RECXORDING and EVER EXPECT TO MAKE MONEY.

If you're in a band and you expect to spend 20 to 40 grand recording...then you're either in Coldplay, or insane. I don't think those kind of costs apply unless you're spending several weeks at AIR Studios or something similar. Our last record (Sanguine Hum, Now We Have Light) needed 2 weeks in a commercial studio. This was mainly for drums, big guitar sounds using big, non-neighbour-friendly amps, Hammond Organ...and generally having us all in the same room to capture a vibe. Also, it's a great studio with great engineers. Plus having us all in the same room tracking at the same time gave us good filming opportunities for promo material. Those 2 weeks cost us 4k, or maybe slightly less...and the rest (vocals, some overdubs, mixing) was all done at home in various bedroom set ups. That 4k was funded by a small crowd funder of sorts (a limited edition signed live CD) and a small advance from the record label offset against future royalties.

Sure, you can make albums just at home...but it does affect the type of album you make. Generally speaking though, the more an instrument needs to pass through air to get to a microphone the more you'll need to head into a professional recording environment IMO.

Matt.

[District97]

You can check out a prime example of crowdfunding by a band that's on a label here (hint hint); https://www.kickstarter.com/projects...016-world-tour. The PE thread on it is at http://www.progressiveears.org/forum...ter-New-Lineup.

We also funded our last studio album this way. The long and short of it is that even though we are on a great label (Laser's Edge), we simply don't sell enough in order to get large advances to be able to afford recording at the level we feel we need to in order to do our music justice. Same goes for touring, which we are funding now. There is a demand for fans to see us all over the place, but we simply can't get enough in guarantees to finance going to Europe or really anywhere outside of driving distance without bankrupting ourselves. That's where the current campaign comes in, and I'm very heartened to see how well it's doing so far. Pitching in even a $1 is a great help, so I hope you'll all check it out!

[JKL2000]

You can check out a prime example of crowdfunding by a band that's on a label here (hint hint); https://www.kickstarter.com/projects...016-world-tour. The PE thread on it is at http://www.progressiveears.org/forum...ter-New-Lineup.

We also funded our last studio album this way. The long and short of it is that even though we are on a great label (Laser's Edge), we simply don't sell enough in order to get large advances to be able to afford recording at the level we feel we need to in order to do our music justice. Same goes for touring, which we are funding now. There is a demand for fans to see us all over the place, but we simply can't get enough in guarantees to finance going to Europe or really anywhere outside of driving distance without bankrupting ourselves. That's where the current campaign comes in, and I'm very heartened to see how well it's doing so far. Pitching in even a $1 is a great help, so I hope you'll all check it out!

I noticed you guys are touring Europe with the Dave Kerzner Band - that's a great double-header, I hope you guys have some good success on that tour!

Now I'm trying to think of other bands or artists on a label that have also done crowdfunding. The only one I can think of that hasn't been mentioned is Dweezil Zappa. He crowdfunded his recent album Via Zammata, and did a great job of it too.

Also, it's hard to believe Dave Kerzner won't have a label for his next album, if he wants one. New World is such a strong album and, as far as I can tell, getting great word of mouth, so I would think a label like Laser's Edge would snap him up, but I could see him doing crowdfunding again as well, since it worked well for him, and he too is very good at carrying out the whole crowdfunding thing.

APB was obviously not very good at carrying out the crowdfunding, and neither is Allan Holdsworth's team - they're whole campaign is just way too confusing. I went in on it, and still have no idea what the hell is going on, best I can tell is that funders get a few songs, and that's about it. I don't really fault Allan, it's his team that seems disorganized, and also I think they're having trouble getting Allan to produce. But I cut him some slack. He's getting up there and I'm happy to chip in for whatever expenses he has - I think it was only $10 anyway.

[jamesmanzi]

Yes, it is really that simple. Sorry, its time to wake up and put on your big boy pants.

No, it isn't.

As a lone musician who does all his work in his apartment with Logic, I'm in no position to argue my own point, really, so please reference Matt's post above for the reality of properly recording a band.