I think you're right. The Birotron was like a Mellotron, except it was capable of playing tape loops -- so you could play a note indefinitely, as opposed to the Mellotron's linear tapes that limited the duration of the sound.Originally Posted by Luckie
It’s other people showing their ignorance, as it’s definitely the Polymoog that’s responsible for the ear-shredding synth-screeches that are all over this album. It had been used subtly on Going for the One but on the self-produced Tormato, Rick began relying on it for the majority of his keyboard sounds. I’m pretty sure there’s no Minimoog at all on the album, all the synth-solos are played on the Polymoog (He breaks out the RMI Keyboard Computer for “Silent Wings,” but I’ve never been able to figure out where he uses it). The Birotron is, for the most part, buried in the mix; you can hear the choir sound near the end of “Rejoice,” the strings towards the end of “Don’t Kill the Whale” and during the quiet part of “Silent Wings.”
I’ve already gone on about my main issue with this album. It’s self-produced. I’m pretty sure had Eddy Offord been in the control room, he’d have told Chris to dial back that bass sound and encouraged Rick for a more varied/less offensive keyboard palette. It also seemed to me that the compositions, apart from “Silent Wings,” were pretty dumbed-down. It’s like they were trying to simplify their sound for an audience that just wasn’t there.
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Yep,... it's the Polymoog. At that time everybody though "wow, won't it be the absolute greatest when we have synthesizers that are massively polyphonic!". So, everybody was primed and all agaga that the results were going to be fantastic. Moog got the Polymoog to market, and then Arp got the Quadra to market. But basically they are divide-down circuitry Lowery type "Organs" with lots of sliders to play with. Cool in their own right in a way, but this technology wasn't really realized the way expectations demanded until the Yamaha CS-80 came on the scene. Sonically they were a huge step backward from Hammond B-3s with Leslie and Minimoogs and Mellotron etc etc... but they were polyphonic so they must be really cool man! (the Polymoog has a bazillion sliders on it).
PS: I love Rick Wakeman, but the synth sounds he goes for a lot of times are kinda snowflake crystal-ish and a bit brittle sounding compared to the classic beefcake monster keyboards of yesteryear.
PPS: the Birotron was a cool improved Mellotron, and the story that goes with it is legendary. It is the rarest collectable keyboard nowadays. Only 1 or 2 left.
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An article I read about the Birotron mentioned that the sound wasn't as rich as the Mellotron, probably due to the limitations of the eight-track cartridges.
Their production of GFTO was no better, alas. ELP's albums of the same period were also self-produced with the same results!
Played Tormato last night. Here's the issue I have with it, the keyboards are awful. The keys sound like toy, Playskool keyboards. Who's idea was it to use those high-pitched, keyboard sounds? Look I get that in 1978 Hammond organs were starting to sound "dated" and "old hat" but the synth sounds Rick uses on this album are unbearable. Circus Of Heaven is pretty awful, and the track that follows it (Onward?) is twee, bullshit. Otherwise I think it's a fine album. The bass and guitar (thunder & lightning) are fantastic, and the songs are good too (except the 2 I mentioned before). What a shame, that album could've been better if it wasn't for the shitty, sounding keyboards.
Given Yes' post Tormato offerings, its not that bad an album.
My only problem with it is Wakeman's 'dinky' keyboard sounds
I've been doing it myself off and on. It can be fun, but sometimes it can be torturous. Most of the time you end up being reminded of just why an album isn't well-regarded in the first place.
Spun Emerson, Lake & Powell last weekend and it still sucks. But upon further review, I've developed a real affinity for most of Black Moon.
High Vibration Go On - R.I.P. Chris Squire
It's all about the context, at the time new polysynths were cutting edge and probably sounded amazing in the studio as those sounds had never been heard before. Of course with hindsight we know how dated it sounds ( like. Lot of 80,'s music). You might still have a point though about ricks choice of sound, but maybe he was trying to sonically cut over the rest of the band so his parts were heard. Not everyone at that time sounded as bad, saga used a lot of moog gear and the music still stands up, the debut is a little thin sounding but apart from that..... Geddy lee kept it fat with the moogs and oberheims but maybe as a non keyboard player he just kept it simple. Contrast the sounds Emerson got out of the GS1 compared to the twee sounds on in through the out door which sound horrendous and totally unfitting for led Zeppelin.
Some trivia. Andy Partridge of XTC wrote about their second album, Go2, "Before seeing the Go2 cover we were offered many at Hipgnosis, one of them being what ended up as Tomato by Yes".
That's a funny story. Even funnier if that is not a typo, and if AP really thought the album title was "Tomato".
But it is pathetic that these album covers are apparently made without any regards to the music. I always assumed that the design firm would listen to the album first and create something appropriate. I guess not. They are just "off the rack" product like anything else.
A typo. My bad.
Going For The One pretty much killed my enthusiasm for Yes, at the time. Tormato just threw the dirt down on top of the coffin, and I blew them a kiss goodbye.
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AP's got a Swindon accent and actually pronounces tomato as tormarto.
I always liked the sound of GFTO (also produced by the band), though I know others don't like the production, I find it appropriate appropriate for the spirit of those tunes. It was a great album anyway.
First day I bought Tormato and listened to it, something sounded wrong with the production. Not just the keys (the worst offender), but the guitar tone is pretty bad as well, IMO. Something about it kinda goes "splat" (like the sound of the tomato hitting the album cover). In recent years I've read that there was some issue with the Dolby encoding/decoding, but that doesn't explain it completely either.
Something was lost in the focus of the band, the attention to detail, etc, that had made the previous six albums so stellar. This affected the production, the songwriting, the arrangements, everything. IMO it was the beginning of the end of real Yes. It couldn't last forever. However, it's still an album that has its moments, and they did continue and did a couple of great tours after this album came out ('78 & '79), and that was that.
Wasn't Going For The One also self-produced?
Not to get too off topic but I'm kind of just the opposite of you. I think Black Moon is ok but ELPowell is really one of the best mainstream prog albums of the eighties without a doubt imo. The fact that they were willing to make a record that prog sounding in 1986 says a lot by itself. I think the songs are good even if they do have typical eighties production. Yep, I think it is a step or two above Black Moon which suffers in part because of Greg's voice which sounds kind of shot to me.
This thread is silly. Tormatos don't have eyes--portatos do.
Someone totally needs to do a parody album cover now called Portato.
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Largely my take on this album as well ( with the caveat that I didn't hear Tormato until many years after its release). I'll put my cards on the table and say that I think that 'Future Times/Rejoice,' 'On the Silent Wings of Freedom,' and the really quite lovely 'Madrigal' are great tracks, but as for the rest of it...oh dear. Terrible production, that awful farting/burbling 'harmonised' Rickenbacker, material that the best that could be said about it is 'lacklustre,' and some truly dire arrangements. Wakeman isn't listening to anybody, Howe clearly doesn't know what to play on most of the material and his tone sucks donkey scrotum, Anderson's compositions are clearly paying no attention to the fact that it's now 1978, as opposed to 1968, and the whole band sounds as if they would rather do anything than spend another five minutes in the room with these other four bozos. For me the worst offenders on the album are Howe's truly dire guitar solo on 'Don't Kill the Whale,' (proof that you can actually make a $3,000 guitar in 1978 money sound absolutely awful), which is only topped in the crimes against music by people who ought to know better stakes by Wakeman's Polymoog solo that follows directly after it. Honestly, whenever I listen to that track (which is as infrequently as possible), it sounds as if Rick was going out of his way to record a part that was so utterly appalling that the rest of the band would never let him keep it. How wrong he was...
The sound of a once great band coming to a crunching stop, sadly.
Gotta admit... I like everything about Don't Kill The Whale... Great song!
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Yeah,... what he said!Gotta admit... I like everything about Don't Kill The Whale... Great song!
Genuine prog album from back in the day! - *free download* : masquepremiere.bandcamp.com
The song I'm indifferent to- although the lyrics are iffy- but that synth solo, ugh! A really horrible tone with an equally horrible pitch-bend to match. I cringe every time I hear that.
I liked the Yesshows "Don't Kill the Whale" a lot better than the studio version.
High Vibration Go On - R.I.P. Chris Squire
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