Genesis - Trespass

[bob_32_116]

A fair bit of discussion has started about this album in another thread, but rather than hijack that thread I thought I would start a dedicated one.

What do people think of this one? My take on it is that it's the album that had to happen before we could have Nursery Cryme or its successors. FGTR was successful enough for what it was - an album of fairly light poppish songs with some interesting arrangements. I think Trespass shows them struggling to grow into a symphonic progressive band. There is a lot of experimentation with song structure here, and it works better on some songs than others. One hears the same kind of motifs throughout that you hear on Nursery Cryme, especially the guitar parts. Later songs like Fountain of Salmacis use some of the same ideas found on Trespass, except by that time they had worked out how to put together a really long song without it sounding like a forced amalgam of shorter songs.

I consider Trespass to be an album that's excellent in parts, bookended by two somewhat dodgy tracks.

My song ratings at this moment in time:

Looking For Someone 6/10

The weakest song after The Knife. There are some gorgeous parts in this song, but structurally it's a bit of a mess. It's as though Gabriel thought "I haven't shouted yet in this song, I better do some shouting here."

White Mountain 9/10

The most successful song. Holds up well by comparison with later "epics" like Hogweed and Can-Utility.

Visions of Angels 7/10

"Pretty" is how I describe this song. Lyrics are a bit lame.

Stagnation 8/10

Another standout, slightly spoiled by some of the vocals.

Dusk 9/10

'Nuff said.

The Knife 4/10

It rocks - but that's about all I can say in its favour. Not enough of a Choon.

[PROGMONSTER]

I think it's compositionally strong and is up there with foxtrot as the best Gabriel Genesis albums. Most of the songs are 8.5/10 except White Mountain which is 7.5/10 because it sounds like it has banjo even if there is none. I hate banjo. I think Nursery Crymes has half the strong compositions Trespass has and is mainly due to 2 new band members coming in and upsetting the balance for a while. I only rate Hogweed, Absent and Salmacis. The rest is mediocre imo. They got back on track with Foxtrot.

[Trane]

Looking For Someone 7/10: good song to start an album, though the lyrics might be a bit of a letdown after opening the gatefold artwork

White Mountain 8/10: flawed (something not right in the production side) but second-best track on the album ... VG lyrics in line with the album sleeve

Visions of Angels 7/10 : Another one that has flawed lyrics (especially when you know The Gabe was lusting after Ant's GF or wife and these words are about her) in view of the album sleeve

Stagnation 7/10: this one has a lot going for itself, but ultimately I never manage to remember any passage of it

Dusk 4/10: thev really boring/soporific one on the album

The Knife 9/10 >> Genesis has balls too

[JJ88]

(especially when you know The Gabe was lusting after Ant's GF or wife and these words are about her)

Other way round.

For me it shows a lot of promise but is let down by some of the playing- a considerable advance on the debut, but nowhere near the greatness they'd soon achieve. The sound quality is also below par IMHO. The remix tidied the flaws up a bit (for example, a poor edit in 'Stagnation'), yet you have to put up with all that shrillness. A shame.

I'm glad they ditched the backing vocals as heard on songs like 'Visions Of Angels' and 'Dusk' on subsequent albums. The word 'plummy' (a British term, relating to accents) comes to mind.

[Trane]

Other way round.
.

oh yeah!!! Meaty anecdote ... Ant's words on Gabe's wife sung by the would-be cuckold

[Bucka001]

Other way round.

I never heard that Ant was lusting after Gabriel's gf (Jill?). Is that a known fact, what's the story there?

[Scrotum Scissor]

The Gabe was lusting after Ant's GF or

Suck'n some juicy bone, maybe? Or perhaps twist'n 'em lemon-kuglen? Yo go suxdix ma'prague ho' da Gabe-Ant'n mofo, bro'.

[Bucka001]

Visions of Angels 7/10 : Another one that has flawed lyrics (especially when you know The Gabe was lusting after Ant's GF or wife and these words are about her) in view of the album sleeve

I asked this earlier in the thread, but is there any documentation of this? (I think it was ascertained that it was the other way around, i.e. Ant lusting after Peter's gf/wife) But where did this info come from; I've never heard it.

[spacefreak]

Ant lusting after Peter's gf/wife) .

Yes that was the case. Some lines from "Visions of Angels" refer to Anthony's frustration at the failure of his romance with Jill Moore (future Mrs Gabriel).

Spencer Bright's biography of Peter Gabriel mentions the fact.

[lovecraft]

I rate Stagnation and Dusk pretty highly, the rest is fine if occasionally prone to some lameness....yes, step forward Visions of Angels and White Mountain. With respect, the idea that Nursery Cryme is a step down from this seems absurd to me. The obvious comparison is Time and a Word and TYA....its obvious we are in a whole new league now.

[PROGMONSTER]

I rate Stagnation and Dusk pretty highly, the rest is fine if occasionally prone to some lameness....yes, step forward Visions of Angels and White Mountain. With respect, the idea that Nursery Cryme is a step down from this seems absurd to me. The obvious comparison is Time and a Word and TYA....its obvious we are in a whole new league now.

To me it's a step down. In a way Mirage is a step down from Camels debut. I find the follow up albums both weaker with more weaker tracks. The yes album for so long has been my fave Yes album but these days I'm actually enjoying Time and a word more with the inclusion of Dear father. Nothing really absurd to me. I find it absurd that such an amateur composition such as Musical box is rated a master piece by programs heads.

[JJ88]

To me it's a step down. In a way Mirage is a step down from Camels debut. I find the follow up albums both weaker with more weaker tracks. The yes album for so long has been my fave Yes album but these days I'm actually enjoying Time and a word more with the inclusion of Dear father. Nothing really absurd to me. I find it absurd that such an amateur composition such as Musical box is rated a master piece by programs heads.

Funny, I find that first Camel album to be pretty 'pedestrian'!

'The Musical Box' actually partially dates back to Anthony Phillips' time in the band. And I agree with martiprog, Hackett and Collins made such a difference. They were better musicians than anybody else in the band IMHO. Listen to all the sounds that Hackett gets out of his guitar on 'The Musical Box', and the fluency in his playing right from his little 'musical box' solos in that track. And Collins' drumming is marvellous throughout, but in particular look at the playing on the intro of '...Giant Hogweed'.

As for 'Looking For Someone', they got a lot better at writing the long tracks. This one especially is pretty piecemeal- the instrumental section has a somewhat 'tagged on' feel, not well integrated with what had gone before IMHO. The vocal part of the track is a lot better IMHO, and the playing is shaky. 'White Mountain'...always surprised they played this one again on the 1976 tour. It's never been one of my favourites, though I like the flute bits and the instrumental outro.

[begnagrad]

I find it absurd that such an amateur composition such as Musical box

Can you please let me know some of your musical accomplishments or master works "composed by you" that will put to shame The Musical Box ?

Can you explain in proper music language why is such a mediocre piece?

Or you meant to say that to "your" progressive ears this particular piece of music is not much to your liking ?

[at least 100 dead]

I'm actually enjoying Time and a word more [...]

Me too. Great record.

I find it absurd that such an amateur composition such as Musical box is rated a master piece by programs heads.

But if you take into account that amateurs built Noah’s ark while the Titanic was made by professionals, then „amateurish“ is a compliment, actually.

Professionalism - a neo-liberal scourge and vastly overrated.

[Rufus]

Me too. Great record.



But if you take into account that amateurs built Noah’s ark while the Titanic was made by professionals, then „amateurish“ is a compliment, actually.

Professionalism - a neo-liberal scourge and vastly overrated.

Agreed, YES's ouput was far more consistent than Genesis's. Time & a Word is their first classic. Genesis didn't hit that kind of stride until Foxtrot. Too much 'dodgy' stuff on everything prior to Foxtrot!!!

[yesstiles]

Agreed, YES's ouput was far more consistent than Genesis's. Time & a Word is their first classic. Genesis didn't hit that kind of stride until Foxtrot. Too much 'dodgy' stuff on everything prior to Foxtrot!!!

Yikes. Yes is my favorite band, but I think every Genesis album done in the 70's is better than "Time and a Word." Even Yes' debut slays it imo.

Fictional amateurs at that!

Oh brother. You do know that there are people here who believe Noah and the ark is an historical account right? Be respectful.

[Scott Bails]

But if you take into account that amateurs built Noah’s ark while the Titanic was made by professionals, then „amateurish“ is a compliment, actually.

Professionalism - a neo-liberal scourge and vastly overrated.

Oh boy.

[martiprog]

They still had that English traditional choral/hymn thing going on at that time, as J alludes to above, but I think it gives it a certain charm when it's just a couple of songs. I too wouldn't have wanted them to carry them forward to the next album. Overall, Stagnation is the standout for me - I love the way it builds, 9/10. Dusk is nice, but probably the weakest 5/10. Everything else is 7.5/10 for me. Very good album, but the band was not yet great. Nursery Cryme was a step up in every way, writing, performance, production and also Hackett & Collins made a big difference. Much as I love Ant, I reckon Hackett had much more in his toolbox.

Overall, 7.5/10 for the album, 6/10 for the production.

What hits me as I think back to this, is if you were a Genesis newbie who knew nothing about the history, listening to Trespass, and then, say, Invisible Touch, you really would have no frame of reference to connect them.

[Interstellar]

I like Trespass very much. It has a fresh, naive quality. The odd phenomenon is that I can't seem to remember the songs. I like almost all the bits and pieces that constitute the songs, but there may be something missing with the flow IMHO. Looking for Someone feels a bit messy indeed.
I don't think Nursery Cryme is much better. To some extent I even prefer Trespass. But Nursery Cryme feels more mature in the songwriting department, and has more memorable hooks.

[Werbinox]

Although interesting to analyze in context of a discussion about the evolution of Genesis' sound, I personally find my enjoyment of this album to be an unstuck-in-time kinda thing, not thinking about it or hearing in that way at all. It exists unto itself in its own rough / charming / naive way, made by ambitious idealistic young kids who ceased to exist after the album was recorded (becoming different beings by the time of NC) Idiosyncratic on my part, perhaps, but I tend to put this album in a separate category reserved for ancient and timeless relics. That doesnt mean its perfect at all, just that its many imperfections become charms in uniqueness.

"Looking for Someone", taken by itself without any comparison to the composition style we now know they went on to achieve, is a beautiful, bluesy, dramatic song that I never skip. Always a player! "White Fang" I sometimes skip, cuz I never seem to be able to pay attention to it all the way thru. "Visions of Angels" is similar, to me, to the kind of innocent-naive-charming stuff you find on the first Yes album. "Stagnation" is the best tune on the album, a succinct statement of what Genesis was in this period, and the vocals are great! "Dusk" is just a gorgeous, gentle tune that I can float in, acoustic guitar and ringing triangle flowing like water thru the forest of reverbed voices. "The Knife" is their aggressive "punk rock" ending, quite dramatic and powerful for its time. I dig it but often skip it, too, if Im not in the mood for it.

[JKL2000]

nd upsetting the balance for a while. I only rate Hogweed, Absent and Salmacis. The rest is mediocre imo.

You think The Musical Box is mediocre? I think all of Tresspass and Nursery Cryme (and Foxtrot) is great.

[Kcrimso]

Why is Musical Box such "an amateur composition"?

[Jubal]

Why is Musical Box such "an amateur composition"?

I guess quoting nursery rhyme references is a- wait for it-





a "Nursery Cryme".

[Now ducking]

[the winter tree]

I love this album. It may not be the "best" Genesis album but it's one of my favorites. It's astonishing to think it was composed and perfromed by guys who were 18- 20 years old at the time. There's an enchanting vibe throughout and I never tire of this album like I do many of their others at times. Every song is a winner.

[Koreabruce]

I love this album. It may not be the "best" Genesis album but it's one of my favorites. It's astonishing to think it was composed and perfromed by guys who were 18- 20 years old at the time. There's an enchanting vibe throughout and I never tire of this album like I do many of their others at times. Every song is a winner.

Yes. This is exactly how I feel about this album. I love it from start to finish! The songs work for me just the way that they are. The production, with all its flaws, I always found rather charming, e.g. the overloaded vocal in Stagnation on "...amongst THE WEEDS and slimy water" and the jarring edit in White Mountain between the reverb-heavy line "And he, the usurper, must diiiiiiiiiiiiie" to the bone-dry "Snarling he tore at the throat of his foe." I find most of Genesis' music highly endearing, but there isn't another record in their entire canon quite like this one, and when I pull it out, it always gets heard from start to finish.