The Science Group "Spoors"

[chalkpie]

I forgot to mention that I revisited "Spoors" last week for the first time in a while. One could write pages on that album, and really dissect each tune, but overall its pretty intense and contains incredible writing and playing. The Tickmayer bits of (possibly) sequenced stuff is really nifty (tons of textural painting as well). Also of special mention is the man, the myth, the one and only Sir Bob of Draketh's bass guitar TONE. There are really no words - one of the greatest bass tones in the history of rock music. Yeah it sounds pretentious but I don't care. His playing also matches the exquisite tone. Mr Johnson (Hi Mike!!) is also incredible here. You want to become a good guitar player? Transcribe the guitar parts here and then learn them. Haha. Instant music PhD. And of course Cutler.

Sorry, I can't delve into more details - I'm spinning Schoenberg at the moment and I'm missing it by typing this!

Music for the brave and adventurous. Buy it - its pretty amazing.

I need to spin it more often.

[chalkpie]

[walt]

This cd started me on my discovery of Tickmayer's mastery of complex but not impenetrable(IMO) composition.I bought a couple of his solo cds on RecRec and i've ordered another recent release(Ultima Armonia-a sax-piano-bass-drums session featuring Tickmayer).Another solo cd is coming soon.

Spoors,like many challenging recordings,reveals more of itself on each close listen.

[Scrotum Scissor]

And what an amazingly FUN Music! Excellently playful stuff.

[Phlakaton]

I dig this out every month or so - and of course - it never gets old at all. So full of great bits and pieces... wholes... halves... chunks... nuggets... bobs... nargles... boogers!

[B D]

It's funny listening to this now. I haven't heard it more than once or twice since I was working on it. Now, years later, it's hard to believe that I actually once knew this material inside and out! (The one posted above is the EASY one!) I also played some organ and guitar on this album too, in fact it's me drumming there on Timeline 6 - Stevan had come up with that groove which we all agreed was perfect for the song but Chris wasn't comfortable playing, it was much more of my kind of simple, steady beat so I played the drums while Chris played the hi-hat, so it would be a kind of hybrid BD/CC drummer. All the rest of the songs are (obviously) just Chris drumming, and he did a superb job on this album.

I did enjoy doing the bass tracks, and really glad someone notices! As I recall, I used a variety of tones from really dirty and twangy to smooth and subterranean, all with my trusty old Rickenbacker 4001 (owned since 1974) and Kustom 250 amp (bought in 1972) and of course my aura.

BD
www.bdrak.com

[Conti]

Love this record to pieces, much more than their former one, which sounds too "stiff" to me in certain places.

That said, the timelines and the bagatelles are perhaps my favorite tracks in Spoors. And I LOVE Chris' drumming in Urban Music, the last track on the cd.

If I'm interested in something from Tickmayer solo in the vein of Spoors, what should I look for?

[trurl]

This is cool shit! This is actually somewhat along the lines of what we're trying to do in the new Schendel/Clouse/Trenure/Park project.

Oh wow, didn't know you were involved BD! I definitely like the things you work on.

[walt]

If I'm interested in something from Tickmayer solo in the vein of Spoors, what should I look for?

I'm not sure if there's anything in Tickmayer's discography that treads a similar path with similar instrumentation as Spoors(other than the first Science Group cd).I'm looking forward to getting a quartet session cd with Tickmayer on piano,with sax, double bass, and drums.It's titled Ultima Armonia and it's in the mail to me now.Here's a clip from this cd.
http://vimeo.com/51956661

[B D]

Oh wow, didn't know you were involved BD! I definitely like the things you work on.

I admit it: I was involved in this...playing things as well as engineering and mixing.

Love this record to pieces, much more than their former one, which sounds too "stiff" to me in certain places.

I also feel that Spoors is the better of the two in many ways, it all rolled along smoothly and everything fell into place without much messing about, though "A Mere Coincidence" does have some nice atmospheres and moments, and for those interested in such trivia, was the last album I mxed on a mixing desk.

BD
www.bdrak.com

[walt]

Love this record to pieces, much more than their former one, ?

My sentiments, as well.

[Scrotum Scissor]

"A Mere Coincidence" does have some nice atmospheres and moments, and for those interested in such trivia, was the last album I mxed on a mixing desk.

I really love both. I think it was almost blatantly apparent when Coincidence was released that this may be the very finale of the Cutler/Frith "song-form" approach which stretched all the way back to "Beautiful as the Moon", something which made it very special indeed. I still think it works on many levels, and Amy Denio's input is extraordinary as always.

[NogbadTheBad]

I love both, nice work Bob

[chalkpie]

It's funny listening to this now. I haven't heard it more than once or twice since I was working on it. Now, years later, it's hard to believe that I actually once knew this material inside and out! (The one posted above is the EASY one!) I also played some organ and guitar on this album too, in fact it's me drumming there on Timeline 6 - Stevan had come up with that groove which we all agreed was perfect for the song but Chris wasn't comfortable playing, it was much more of my kind of simple, steady beat so I played the drums while Chris played the hi-hat, so it would be a kind of hybrid BD/CC drummer. All the rest of the songs are (obviously) just Chris drumming, and he did a superb job on this album.

I did enjoy doing the bass tracks, and really glad someone notices! As I recall, I used a variety of tones from really dirty and twangy to smooth and subterranean, all with my trusty old Rickenbacker 4001 (owned since 1974) and Kustom 250 amp (bought in 1972) and of course my aura.

BD
www.bdrak.com

That's you on Timelines 6??!! Fantastic. I have always "dreamt up" Msr Cutler in my head on that track - I guess I need to change the film, eh? As for the bass playing, yeah, really tremendous stuff happening there. Off the top of mi cabesa, I would say that this album, The Shunned Country, and Effigies in Cork have what I would consider the baddest-bad-nastieth-gnarlieth-shake-yer-arse-groovo-monkey-buzzy-kickin'-bitchin'-tits-Drake bass playing and sounds. I know there are many others, but those three just slay. What do you think? Am I close or am I missing something obvious? I know 5uu's could also easily make the list.

I keep forgetting to get the fatal Duckpond! I loved the first one, I need that one too. Did I see you on that PoiL thread? That's a group I know you would really really dig. Exceptional stuff.

[chalkpie]

Gun to my head = Spoors by a pretty large distance. Nothing against Coincidence whatsoever, but Spoors is just

[mogrooves]

Tickmayer's hip; good stuff though I prefer the first album.

[B D]

Off the top of mi cabesa, I would say that this album, The Shunned Country, and Effigies in Cork have what I would consider the baddest-bad-nastieth-gnarlieth-shake-yer-arse-groovo-monkey-buzzy-kickin'-bitchin'-tits-Drake bass playing and sounds. I know there are many others, but those three just slay. What do you think? Am I close or am I missing something obvious? I know 5uu's could also easily make the list.

There are some pretty neat and some very nasty bass tones on the two AA Kismet albums too, which I'll soon have available again on Bandcamp (CDs long out of print) Those were done in the late 90's, around the time of Crisis in Clay and Mere Coincidence so there is a bit of similarity to those in the approach to the bass. Oh you can hear some here:
http://www.bdrak.com/sounds/others/aawolv.htm
http://www.bdrak.com/sounds/others/aa.htm

It's hard to say though, Frank, maybe most of the time in my own music I tend to put the bass more inside the music, though I also think the bass parts on my own music usually have a lot more space between the notes than I used to back in the 90s (or 80's or 70's!) and as a bass player I always pay very, very close attention to how the notes and spaces work with the drums and guitars, and the main melody, so maybe that helps the bass part to stand out better as well. Also just a natural evolution and not wanting to always do it exactly the same way with the same exact sounds all the time. For example on Drive-In most of the time I used a more "traditional" bass tone, only used my old Bassman amp instead of the Kustom I'd been using since 1972 (though I did use that on one or two) and wanted the bass not so dirty and not clanky, played with my thumb (not slapping, but plucking with the side of the thumb, which I do quite a lot actually). On Lawn Ornaments I put flatwound strings on my bass for the first time ever, just to try and sound a bit different, love those and have stayed with them ever since. Also on Lawn I often played through the Kustom and the Bassman amps at the same time, which also helped give some nice tones.

Egotistically speaking: I do have a supreme confidence when playing bass - it's a bit like: (in mock-fatherly tone) "Please, step aside and let me show you how it's done."

I don't know Poil, so it wasn't me on that thread...at least I don't think so!

Duckpond: It sounds a lot more organic that Effigies, because we had the 4-piece band on that one instead of the trio we had on Effigies.

[calyx]

I played the drums while Chris played the hi-hat, so it would be a kind of hybrid BD/CC drummer.

OK, now I get the "Bos Cutke" credit. Always assumed he was a real person !

[B D]

OK, now I get the "Bos Cutke" credit. Always assumed he was a real person !

I wanted to call it "Chrob Cutrake" but for some reason it was changed in the credits!

[Udi Koomran]

I prefer the 1st
i hear Tickmayer has a new cd coming soon

[B D]

Now that I've listened to this again after so many years, I can hear that Chris played some of those noisy drumfills, I definitely hear his sound there. For example at 0:51-1:02 and 1:18-1:28. (no one hits a snare like he does.) That main groove throughout the song however is me, with Chris on hi-hat.

[Lieto]

Love this album!!!!! Awesome thread with the always amazing and insightful Bob! Had to pick but I think I like this one more than the first one too., but they are both fantastic

[aplodon]

I forgot to mention that I revisited "Spoors" last week for the first time in a while.

Great album!
Haven't spun it for a long time, either, so I need to revisit, also.

I prefer this to the first!

[Phlakaton]

What I would love to know - how the hell do you even compose some of this? It sounds like a master class in how put together different elements and segments to complete a whole song... some of the angularity and juxtaposition of the parts of each song blow my brain apart. Do you actually write down the bulk of a track... or is there a lot of free playing to figure out the direction you might take? Good God this music - 5UUs - Thinking Plague - U Totem - it all leaves me staring into space confused at life. lol

A Mere Coincidence --- Love --- damn do I dig that song. Perfect name for it. ha!

[chalkpie]

Now that I've listened to this again after so many years, I can hear that Chris played some of those noisy drumfills, I definitely hear his sound there. For example at 0:51-1:02 and 1:18-1:28. (no one hits a snare like he does.) That main groove throughout the song however is me, with Chris on hi-hat.

Oh man - you shouldn't have 'fessed up! But those fills and the drum treatment in Timeline 6 are really killer. Was it your call or Cutlers to treat the drums with the FX?

Did you guys rehearse live or do everything remotely? This band should tour!! A World Tour!! Cruise Ships!! Casinos!! Strip Clubs!! Penn Station next to the men's room and Starbucks!!

I hope Mike shows up because I would really like to hear his 3 shillings and opinions of this album.