Gentle Giant - Sound Quality of CD reissues

[Poisoned Youth]

I don't normally start these types of threads, but when I was shifting through my GG catalog recently, I noticed a significant variance in sound quality between the One Way issues I have (Free Hand, Civilian, PtF), the DRTs (Interview, Missing Piece, GfaD), the Repertoires (recent reissues of the first four albums), Alucard (Glass House - wasn't this DRT before DRT?), and a Capitol reissue of Power.

My favorites personally are the Repertoire and find many of the others difficult to listen to in comparison. Opinions on the various reissues as a whole? Do you feel this is a band that's been represented well digitally or could really use a new set of reissues (ownership rights not withstanding)?

[yesstiles]

I don't normally start these types of threads, but when I was shifting through my GG catalog recently, I noticed a significant variance in sound quality between the One Way issues I have (Free Hand, Civilian, PtF), the DRTs (Interview, Missing Piece, GfaD), the Repertoires (recent reissues of the first four albums), Alucard (Glass House - wasn't this DRT before DRT?), and a Capitol reissue of Power.

My favorites personally are the Repertoire and find many of the others difficult to listen to in comparison. Opinions on the various reissues as a whole? Do you feel this is a band that's been represented well digitally or could really use a new set of reissues (ownership rights not withstanding)?

That Capitol cd of "The Power and the Glory" is the best Gentle Giant gets on regular cd. It sounds wonderful. The DRT's are crap.

[zeprogmeister]

I like the Capital cd of PaTG also. The Columbia ones of the first few sound good to me, and I have mostly the Terrapin/Roed Goes on Forever version of the later ones. I am not in need of further reissues.

[Reid]

I've yet to hear a good sounding Free Hand. I had the One Way CD which sounded like crap, and now I have the BGO Free Hand/Interview which is only marginally better. I have a few 25 year old Line editions of Three Friends, Octopus, and Acquiring The Taste that sound good. I have the DRT edition of In A Glass House which sounds kind of harsh. And I have that old Capitol CD already mentioned which sounds great! I haven't heard any of the 2010 reissues.

[JeffCarney]

I happened to be listening to Three Friends today and since I had a few versions I did a quick comparison. Here's what I found:

The Line CD was the most dynamic, but it is seriously boosted in the top end. Too much treble.

The Columbia CD sounds better but isn't as dynamic. I wonder if I have a later pressing? I have noted cases before where Columbia has pushed the volume up on something that has been in print a long time. Sonically, this CD sounds warm and wonderful. I have no idea why it doesn't have a better reputation. I might try to seek out an earlier pressing to see if it is less compressed.

Then I have a rip of a Vertigo (UK 1st press "Swirl") LP. This sounds really good. A touch more treble than the Columbia CD but they are actually pretty close overall in terms of tonality and dynamics.

Ideally, if I could have the dynamics of the Line CD with the tonality of the Columbia, I'd be happy. I will definitely seek out the oldest Columbia CD I can find because I suspect they pushed the volume up at some point.

For Octopus, the Japanese SACD is out in front by 100 miles.

For the first two I just listen to vinyl rips as I have some good ones, but I do keep the Vertigo CDs.

Not a huge fan of anything after the first four, but agree with Yesstiles and Alan that PaTG on Capitol sounds fantastic.

[yesstiles]

The Columbia CD sounds better but isn't as dynamic. I wonder if I have a later pressing? I have noted cases before where Columbia has pushed the volume up on something that has been in print a long time.

The earliest Columbia cd of "Three Friends" is a USA DADC disc with "Digital Audio Disc Corp" embossed in the clear plastic inner ring.

For "In A Glass House" I prefer the Road Goes On Forever/Terrapin Trucking cd from the UK early 90's. Very dynamic.

[JeffCarney]

For "In A Glass House" I prefer the Road Goes On Forever/Terrapin Trucking cd from the UK early 90's. Very dynamic.

Isn't the Alucard a clone of this?

Seem to remember that being the case.

I also seem to remember that it's from the master tape.

[Vic2012]

I have 3 DRT CDs (P&G, Freehand, interview). A few years ago I read something about certain DRT reissues that were defective. So I have one of the defective copies of Interview. I'm not even sure what the "defect" is but I've kept the CD and I think it's okay. I didn't feel like bothering with sending the CD to DRT and all that.

[mx20]

I'm quite pleased with the Alucard version of Interview. My Vertigo swirl Acquiring The Taste LP beats whatever CD edition I have (it's an older Columbia, I think)-- the first note of the title track is "pinched."

[Crystal Plumage]

Not really a big fan of GG in general but I have "Edge of Twilight" which sounds stellar! Together with "Totally out of the Woods" this is enough for me

[mx20]

Not really a big fan of GG in general but I have "Edge of Twilight" which sounds stellar! Together with "Totally out of the Woods" this is enough for me

That's my favorite track, too! I've yet to meet another fan whose two favorite GG albums are Interview & Acquiring The Taste, as mine are. I love most everything in between, of course, and some before & after.

[Plasmatopia]

I haven't heard all the various releases of each GG album by any means, but I was first getting into GG when the DRT releases came out. I had no reference point and was more focused on the fantastic music, so I didn't notice the deficiencies in sound. I have replaced two or three of these with the Alucard releases and to my ears they sound WAY better than the DRT ones. For example, the bass sounds more punchy and detailed.

The DRT release of Interview (I think) had a problem where there was only one channel...I think the same channel was coming out of both speakers? I can't recall, but DRT offered a replacement that corrected the problem. Somewhere I made a rip of the problem disc before I sent it in for replacement, just for curiosity's sake.

Was it Alucard that fairly recently re-released both Three Friends and Octopus? I felt the sound on those was vastly improved over the other versions I had (which I think were the Columbia releases).

This certainly only provides information for one aspect of the sound, but I thought this was interesting:

http://dr.loudness-war.info/album/li...e+giant&album=

[Vic2012]

The DRT release of Interview (I think) had a problem where there was only one channel...I think the same channel was coming out of both speakers?

Yeah that's what I heard too. There was a list of serial numbers and my copy was on the list. I honestly don't think it sounds bad, but I'm not an audiophile with high end equipment.

[JeffCarney]

http://dr.loudness-war.info/album/li...e+giant&album=

Interesting. That shows the same problem with the Columbia Three Friends as my copy. It's compressed compared to some of the others.

Really a shame if it was always like that since its release, because the tonality on it is fantastic, IMO. Very warm mastering. The Line has great dynamics but is seriously overcooked with treble for my taste.

[Mr_Rubbish]

I've got a couple of Alucard discs, Free Hand and Interview, and I'm not impressed by the sound, they lack warmth. Also, they are CDRs which are screen printed, shoddy.

[Watanabe]

Interesting. That shows the same problem with the Columbia Three Friends as my copy. It's compressed compared to some of the others.

Really a shame if it was always like that since its release, because the tonality on it is fantastic, IMO. Very warm mastering. The Line has great dynamics but is seriously overcooked with treble for my taste.

was having a quick loom through that site there and the horrendously botched, completely no-noised Aqualung 25th remaster has a great rating of 15.WTF....maybe it's because it has an interview track on it that pushes the rating up? There's little dynamic range in the actual music.

[JeffCarney]

was having a quick loom through that site there and the horrendously botched, completely no-noised Aqualung 25th remaster has a great rating of 15.WTF....maybe it's because it has an interview track on it that pushes the rating up? There's little dynamic range in the actual music.

All that site shows is a rating for Dynamic Range using the Dynamic Range Meter.

The complaint about the 25th Aqualung relates to super heavy use of digital dehissing (aka "No-Noise); not compression.

[Rael]

Interesting. That shows the same problem with the Columbia Three Friends as my copy. It's compressed compared to some of the others.

Really a shame if it was always like that since its release, because the tonality on it is fantastic, IMO. Very warm mastering. The Line has great dynamics but is seriously overcooked with treble for my taste.

I'm no expert on Gentle Giant, but is there a way to tell how old your CD pressing is? I have the Columbia CD and I'm pretty positive I've had it for at least 20 years-possibly closer to 25. It's very easy on the ears and I'm playing it now as I type. But then I just finished listening to an awful remaster of Iceberg's "Tutankhamon" so even the Genesis remixes would sound acceptable by comparison! I'd be curious to know for sure if you have an overcooked Columbia pressing or if it was futzed with somewhere along the line.

[JeffCarney]

I'm no expert on Gentle Giant, but is there a way to tell how old your CD pressing is? I have the Columbia CD and I'm pretty positive I've had it for at least 20 years-possibly closer to 25. It's very easy on the ears and I'm playing it now as I type. But then I just finished listening to an awful remaster of Iceberg's "Tutankhamon" so even the Genesis remixes would sound acceptable by comparison! I'd be curious to know for sure if you have an overcooked Columbia pressing or if it was futzed with somewhere along the line.

Matrix says DIDP 071764 5.

My guess it that it could be the 5th repress.

If you want to check your EAC numbers we can get to the bottom of this.

I will say that even though it isn't as dynamic as the Line, the overall tonality just SMOKES the Line. Very underrated CD.

[Paul Smeenus]

Hi, my name is Paul Smeenus, I'm new here and this is my first post.

I haven't heard any re-issues but the originals were pretty poor. I used a Rega P25 turntable with a Rega Exact cartridge into a Tascam CD-RW 700 pro cd recorder and ripped cd's from vinyl, it was a lot better than the early cd's but I don't know how they'd compare to the remastered cd's.

One thing I've always hated about the original Three Friends is how they TOTALLY missed the time point where Mr. Class and Quality? ends and the title track begins. HOW is it not obvious that the bridge section of MC&Q is NOT the opening notes of the title track? I hope this was fixed on the remasters.

[Shadow]

Just pull out your import copies on vinyl and listen to them.

[JeffCarney]

Hi, my name is Paul Smeenus, I'm new here and this is my first post.

I haven't heard any re-issues but the originals were pretty poor. I used a Rega P25 turntable with a Rega Exact cartridge into a Tascam CD-RW 700 pro cd recorder and ripped cd's from vinyl, it was a lot better than the early cd's but I don't know how they'd compare to the remastered cd's.

One thing I've always hated about the original Three Friends is how they TOTALLY missed the time point where Mr. Class and Quality? ends and the title track begins. HOW is it not obvious that the bridge section of MC&Q is NOT the opening notes of the title track? I hope this was fixed on the remasters.

Welcome, Paul.

Not sure I completely follow your comments. Which originals were poor? All of them? That's a lot of CDs ...

Btw, I believe that the incorrect indexing point on "Mr. Class and Quality?" which was on the Columbia CD was repeated on the Repertoire and also the Japanese mini lp version.

Despite an indexing error, I feel the Columbia CD of TF beats the Line. And as I say, it sounds pretty darned close to the much loved original UK Vertigo LP in terms of its tonality. Still a very good value for the $5 it goes for. Wrong indexing point and all.

[Paul Smeenus]

Welcome, Paul.

Not sure I completely follow your comments. Which originals were poor? All of them? That's a lot of CDs ...

Btw, I believe that the incorrect indexing point on "Mr. Class and Quality?" which was on the Columbia CD was repeated on the Repertoire and also the Japanese mini lp version.

Despite an indexing error, I feel the Columbia CD of TF beats the Line. And as I say, it sounds pretty darned close to the much loved original UK Vertigo LP in terms of its tonality. Still a very good value for the $5 it goes for. Wrong indexing point and all.

Lol ok. I thought that 3F (especially when the track marking I mentioned is factored in), TP&TG, FH, & Interview were pretty poor but i was comparing them to the records, I just made cd's from my vinyl on those and others (minus TMP and GFAD which aside from a track or two don't really do anything for me) and they turned out well.

[JeffCarney]

Lol ok. I thought that 3F (especially when the track marking I mentioned is factored in), TP&TG, FH, & Interview were pretty poor but i was comparing them to the records, I just made cd's from my vinyl on those and others (minus TMP and GFAD which aside from a track or two don't really do anything for me) and they turned out well.

I think some you mention I would agree with. The first issue of FH had the wrong mix, right?

But I agree with those who mention PaTG on Capitol. The CD is "demo" level. "Aspirations" is a mind blower on that disc.,

[Paul Smeenus]

BTW I was lucky enough to see Giant twice. The first time was September 1972 in Portland OR as the opening act for Black Sabbath (Vol. 4 was soon to be released but at that time was delayed and Ozzy was bitching about the delay all through the set) and Giant was touring 3F. That was the first time I'd ever heard them and it changed every idea I'd ever had about music.

The second time I saw Giant was in 1976 in the same arena in Portland opening for Yes, who technically were touring the solo albums (which while I'm on the subject I rate Anderson > Squire (just barely, I consider both of those essential), both significantly better than Moraz > Howe >>>>>> the gawdawful White) but in reality that tour was virtually the same setlist as the Relayer tour. Giant played nothing from Interview (as best as I can remember from almost 40 years ago).