Trevor Rabin improved Yes!

[cavgator]

I have the utmost regard for Trevor Rabin as a tremendously talented guitarist, songwriter and composer, but for me, his sounds simply is not that of Yes. Then again, my definition of the classic Yes sound differs from many here.

For me, the Classic Yes sound is that from The Yes Album through Close To The Edge. With Bruford's departure and White's arrival, Yes's rhythm section got MUCH heavier. Whereas Broof played a lighter, off-beat jazzy style, Alan was a classic rock drummer, creating a more direct sound (which is something I think Squire was looking for).

For me, Relayer doesn't really even sound like a Yes album, even though it is among my desert island disks. Howe's Telecaster sound, combined with Alan's heavy drumming and Moraz' decidedly jazzier approach to keyboards, gave this incarnation of Yes a vastly different texture, a texture that partially returned with Wakeman. Indeed, Drama sounds more like a Yes album to me than Relayer.

Compared to the output from YesWest, I greatly preferred the work by Anderson, Bruford, Wakeman and Howe, who captured the classic Yes sound rather well (Squire's absence notwithstanding, as Levin is a more versatile bassist, IMO). YesWest was a great arena rock band, as was mid-career Kansas, Asia, Boston, Styx and Journey (Genesis was more pop in the 1980s than arena rock). But for me, they simply were not Yes, anymore than 1980s ELP were ELP, Tull was Tull, or Floyd was Floyd. They became another band. Respected, but not beloved.

[hewhoknows]

Finally, some interesting comments regarding Howe vs. Rabin. Most people just want to bash Rabin but I fully agree that he plays well (yes, please check out Jacaranda) and brought some "crunch" to the rhythms that Howe chooses not to do. Howe likes to run scales during vocal parts and just doesn't have the chops to do open solos without noticeable sloppiness. His rhythms are excellent and his song writing and acoustic playing are also extremely good. He used the same basic style in Asia (also very lacking in "crunch" till his recent departure and replaced by a more conventional guitarist). Also, same in GTR but at least Hackett was there to add more guitar and make it sound full. It's not a who's better thing but a preference. Mine is also for Rabin. I also COMPLETELY agree that if he went back to Yes and they tried new material, it could be outstanding. I had really been looking forward to the Anderson, Rabin, Wakeman project to move forward but that doesn't seem to be going anywhere.

[jarmsuh]

Yes maybe Rabin brings a new sound in Yes and is a good guitar player, but how come the band's music is decreasing in quality when he is with the band?

[hewhoknows]

Yes maybe Rabin brings a new sound in Yes and is a good guitar player, but how come the band's music is decreasing in quality when he is with the band?

Your mileage may vary but 90125 and Talk are excellent releases IMHO. Big Generator has some moments but is the weakest of the 3 Rabin era releases. I don't agree that the "band's music is decreasing".

[SteveSly]

I know it makes me a pariah for saying so, but I've always preferred Rabin to Howe. I came onboard with 90125, so I've always had a soft spot for YesWest.

...

I think I may be in this camp as well. I saw the “Union” tour twice and with the two of them on the same stage, I must say that I liked Rabin’s heavier approach in a live environment. I saw the “90125” tour twice, “Big Generator” once, and the “Talk” tour once (with Rabin and Billy Sherwood), and I enjoyed all of them. I have seen Howe a bunch of times too and love him too, but sometimes he seems to try a bit too hard to improvise or change up his solos to the point where they can come across a bit sloppy sounding. This is coming from a guy who can’t play a lick of guitar, so maybe I don’t know what I am talking about, but it is how my ears have heard it over the years.

Steve Sly

[klothos]

Yes maybe Rabin brings a new sound in Yes and is a good guitar player, but how come the band's music is decreasing in quality when he is with the band?

What you refer to as "Quality" is actually "Musical Preference", and that will be subjective from person to person

[timmy]

i'm a fan of both Steve Howe and Trevor Rabin. For me, both musicians helped make Yes exceptional in their own way and there is no comparison that can be made with these two guys.

[Scott Bails]

I think TR helped create a fantastic YES-based band for the 80s. But in my mind that was still a band called Cinema, Jon or no Jon. It was not an improved Yes.

This is the way I've always tried to approach it. Both are excellent guitarists and songwriters, but their styles and approaches are so different, it's almost silly to compare. And Yes sounds quite different with each of them.

I always found it disappointing that Rabin was criticized so harshly while he was in the band. No, he's not Howe. He's a very different musician, and brought different talents and perspective. I think they made some great music with him. They made some crap, too, but the same could be said about Howe.

[jarmsuh]

What you refer to as "Quality" is actually "Musical Preference", and that will be subjective from person to person

If you ask to the Yes fans if they compare the best Yes albums, they will by a large majority place CTE, TTO, YA, FRA over the best of Rabin's era.

[calyx]

I always found it disappointing that Rabin was criticized so harshly while he was in the band. No, he's not Howe. He's a very different musician, and brought different talents and perspective. I think they made some great music with him.

Not a big fan of YesWest myself, but one thing we can probably all agree on is that Howe's guitar style wouldn't have worked in YesWest - as I said, I don't even think it worked very well in Asia so...

[Kcrimso]

I would have put it that Trevor Rabin saved Yes, not improved. Without the 80s version of Yes, I don't think we would have seen them reform in the mid 90s to give us Keys to Ascension and then carry on from there like they have.

Why? Most of 70's prog bands have reformed (at least temporarily) and they didn't need Trevor Rabin to do that.

Hmm... maybe Rabin should join Gentle Giant...

[Yodelgoat]

Comparing Steve Howe to Trevor Rabin is apples and oranges. I really love both guitarists. In the 80's Yes needed to reinvent itself in order to survive, and it did so with TR. But to compare the two is almost impossible. I'm grateful for TR stepping in to keep the magic of Yes alive, but They just dont compare musically. I like Howes ingrained "sloppiness" and though TR could do a decent job of imitating it, its not the same. I havent heard Rabin play on something like Tales, but I bet he would nail it, but it still would not be the same as when Howe did it. They are just two completely different musicians. Imitating slop (and I use that in the most endearing terms possible) is not the same as being the creator of the slop. Try as he might, Rabin is just too much of a perfectionist to do it, and it just would not feel the same. I for one would like to see them both accepting this and be willing to work for the betterment of the whole. From what I understand Rabin was
"doubling" Howes parts on the Open your eyes tour, and that is like Jon Davidson singing "double" on anything Jon Anderson would sing, and that is just dilluting the real thing with te "cover" band stuff, when what you want to hear is the real thing. No wonder Howe got upset. Rabin shuold have just stood and watched Howe and allowed the audience to experience the "real" thing. Thats when the Ego rules the brain.

Sorry If I may have some of my recollections wrong. I'm sure someone will correct them. I have pnemonia and I'm typing through a dense fog of happy, happy, happy hydrocodone induced euphoria. Why cant the world be like this all the time... Man, I love you guys....

[Kcrimso]

From what I understand Rabin was
"doubling" Howes parts on the Open your eyes tour, and that is like Jon Davidson singing "double" on anything Jon Anderson would sing, and that is just dilluting the real thing with te "cover" band stuff, when what you want to hear is the real thing.

Rabin didn't play on Open Your Eyes tour. Billy Sherwood was the second guitarist. I think he mainly played rhythm guitar and maybe some solos that Rabin originally played.

[Yodelgoat]

Rabin didn't play on Open Your Eyes tour. .

So,was it an earlier tour when they played together and Howe got upset with Rabin - Or did I just imagine that?

[ronmac]

I always found it disappointing that Rabin was criticized so harshly while he was in the band. No, he's not Howe. He's a very different musician, and brought different talents and perspective.

It is odd that people would try to compare the two negatively. I'd much rather have someone bringing something new to the table than a clone, like they keep doing with Jon's replacements.

[klothos]

What you refer to as "Quality" is actually "Musical Preference", and that will be subjective from person to person

If you ask to the Yes fans if they compare the best Yes albums, they will by a large majority place CTE, TTO, YA, FRA over the best of Rabin's era.

....and this changes nothing in what i said "Best", "Quality", etc are still all subjective terms....There are people that like 80s/Rabin-era Yes that dont care for their 70s music, even if they are a minority (my sister is one)

[Kcrimso]

So,was it an earlier tour when they played together and Howe got upset with Rabin - Or did I just imagine that?

They played together only on Union tour. I don't know about upset part. Howe can be quite grumby but that I think is normal.

[JJ88]

I prefer Steve Howe's earthier, jagged style to Trevor Rabin's more slick, technical approach, but I wouldn't criticise Rabin either. '90125' is a brilliant album IMHO, and he had a lot to do with that. I personally believe that each album thereafter was a case of diminishing returns, but I don't think that was his fault- more a case of not everyone being on the same page IMHO.

[ProgPariah77]

When Peter Banks left the band, "Yes!" was all over. Done. Finis. I mean, he's the guy who came up with the NAME for pete's sake ... !

[ronmac]

When Peter Banks left the band, "Yes!" was all over. Done. Finis. I mean, he's the guy who came up with the NAME for pete's sake ... !

Which was inspired by Yoko Ono, right?

[Man In The Mountain]

Trevor Rabin
Donny Osmond

Just sayin'...

[ProgPariah77]

Which was inspired by Yoko Ono, right?

I think that guy's name was John Lennon or some such. One look at her *ahem* interactive artwork, and he was all like, "Yoko O-YES!," am I right ... ?

...

[No Pride]

I prefer Steve Howe's earthier, jagged style to Trevor Rabin's more slick, technical approach, but I wouldn't criticise Rabin either. '90125' is a brilliant album IMHO, and he had a lot to do with that. I personally believe that each album thereafter was a case of diminishing returns, but I don't think that was his fault- more a case of not everyone being on the same page IMHO.

Trevor's solo album "Can't Look Away" (1989) is the best YesWest album that wasn't a YesWest album. Probably because he had full control of it.

[ProgPariah77]

Trevor's solo album "Can't Look Away" ...

"Sludge" is a little masterpiece.

[No Pride]

"Sludge" is a little masterpiece.

It's definitely a departure from the rest of the album and sounds nothing like anything YesWest would've done. But yeah, it's great; I love it!