How about a 'classic' Genesis reunion w/o Gabriel? (stop the PC bashing)

[LEG-art]

Before I get hate mail. Please hear me out:

I think it's time to stop the Phil Collins bashing. Yes, he has a ton of solo success, but he still loves the classic tunes. But remember in 1992, Phil asked his band buddies if they could play Supper's Ready in it's entirety. Mike and Tony said No!" Phil also played a song with The Musical Box and showed he still has the chops. Unfortunately with his health... he said- "what would I do if Peter comes back for a reunion. I cannot play the drums anymore."

So my thoughts- the heck with Mr. `solo' Gabriel.

Lineup:

Vocals- Phil Collins
Guitars- Steve Hackett
Bass- Mike Rutherford
Keys- Tony Banks
Drums- Chester Thompson or Simon Collins

and if Phil cannot do it, use his son or Martin Levac on vocals/drums.

Remember Seconds Out is one of the greatest live prog albums and Phil did all the vocals. And as his voice has lowered, he'd have a easier time dealing with the Gabriel parts for the older numbers. But please no Daryl Stuermer, he's a very good jazz guitarist, but IMHO, he wrecked a lot of the classic songs live. And though Peter Gabriel was a genius in terms of songwriting, I believe he's more comfortable doing solo material and helping causes. Let him. Bring back the Second's Out lineup! Of course this is only my opinion and I could be wrong.

[Progatron]

But remember in 1992, Phil asked his band buddies if they could play Supper's Ready in it's entirety. Mike and Tony said No!

I don't recall that at all. Phil did want to play "Carpet Crawlers" on the '92 tour but was outvoted. It was Gabriel who wanted to do "Supper's Ready" (years later) and was talked out of it by Levin, Rhodes & co.

[bill g]

Yeah I don't think Tony would ever say no to what is close to his favorite piece of music by Genesis.

[calyx]

And as his vice has lowered...

His vice ?!? Talk about really mean Phil-bashing !

[profusion]

No bashing here. I would absolutely go see that. However, the money issues will always mean a gravitation towards the '80s pop material. You'd get an arena full of people wanting to hear "Invisible Touch," with a scattering of us weirdos waiting for "Supper's Ready." That's just the way it works.

I would rather see Tony and/or Mike work with Hackett on the Genesis Revisited project in some capacity, but I don't ever see that happening. Personally, I'm totally happy seeing Hackett perform the prog Genesis catalog properly with a cast of musicians who are more enthusiastic about it than Tony and Mike would probably be.

[LEG-art]

typo- my fault- fixed it. lol.... and to comment on profusion's remark- for some reason, I think Steve is a true outsider to the Genesis members. Perhaps Simon is the bridge to a more mutual relationship.

[trurl]

I'm all for it but I doubt it would be any big improvement over that last tour. They could even go with Chester and Nick DeVirgillio for the double drumming. It's a pipe dream though.

[Obscured]

I don't recall that at all. Phil did want to play "Carpet Crawlers" on the '92 tour but was outvoted. It was Gabriel who wanted to do "Supper's Ready" (years later) and was talked out of it by Levin, Rhodes & co.

I don't think anyone talks PG out of anything. If he wanted to play it, it would have been played. Just like when Peter decides to tour, the others have had their schedules decided.

[timmy]

Hell of an idea. If Pete is too busy then why can't the other 4 go out and play their asses off for us?

Tony, Mike, Phil, and Steve. Done. Put me down for 4 tickets in the Austin/Dallas/Houston area… for all three cities.

[Patelena396]

typo- my fault- fixed it. lol.... and to comment on profusion's remark- for some reason, I think Steve is a true outsider to the Genesis members. Perhaps Simon is the bridge to a more mutual relationship.

It would be interesting to know what the relationship between Steve and the other members of the band is. That said, I don't know if he is an outsider per say, but probably more like that of a guy who they respect, but worked with last almost 40 years ago. That is a long time. It would be great to see them reunite in some way. Personally, rather than a tour revisiting the past, I am always in favor of new music. How cool would it be if Tony Banks and Steve did an album together? They both have a fondness for the progressive side of things and were responsible to a large extent for some really great Genesis moments. For me personally, I would love to see Steve and Tony write and record something together.

[Tangram]

For me personally, I would love to see Steve and Tony write and record something together.

[Dodie]

I don't think anyone talks PG out of anything. If he wanted to play it, it would have been played. Just like when Peter decides to tour, the others have had their schedules decided.

Actually, Progatron was absolutely correct, if we can trust Peter Gabriel's own interview in an issue of Prog magazine a year or so ago. He says himself that he briefly contemplated doing 'Supper's Ready' on a solo tour (a relatively recent one, I think), and David Rhodes didn't want to do it. To be fair, it's hard to imagine Rhodes deputising for Hackett in those sorts of tunes. Nothing was inferred about Rhodes disliking the piece, but I read it to mean that he wasn't the right kind of guitarist for the piece.

I have no desire whatsoever to see any kind of Genesis reunion. Let Hackett continue to be as diverse (albeit with a few duds among the generally consistent genius), and let the others enjoy their affluent retirement. I suppose it would be nice to see Banks, Rutherford, Collins and Gabriel publicly give Hackett the kind of real credit he deserves, and perhaps guest on some stuff or collaborate - but I doubt that's ever going to happen. It's likelier that Peter Banks will rejoin Yes ;-)

[Rufus]

Get Hackett on board & BINGO, we have a Genesis worth listening to and investing in, Gabriel or not!

[LEG-art]

It would be interesting to know what the relationship between Steve and the other members of the band is. That said, I don't know if he is an outsider per say

For the first reunion at Milton Keynes, Steve found out about it, just with enough time to fly in and play Supper's Ready and the encore. I still have the program, Mr. Hackett is not listed in the credits.... and special guests were mentioned as Talk Talk, The Blues Band, and John Martyn, that has to tell you something about what they think of him. Steve attended Peter Gabriel's last tour. I have not heard if any of the Genesis members seeing the GR2 tour, though Steve said there were comps for his ex-mates. Hackett mentions that British men tend to have a problem with showing feeling. "We're all a bunch of repressed F@%$ers." he stated I believe at the Dublin show. Steve is a kind caring individual that goes the extra yard. Case in point- He stayed hours after a long show (and the curfew), during Nearest to sign and speak with everyone. John Wetton never showed up with UK. Could you imagine Michael Rutherford doing this?

Patelena396: How cool would it be if Tony Banks and Steve did an album together.

It would be a very interesting match.

A Phil-led Genesis with Steve, Mike , and Tony would be a must attend!!!! Maybe they could not sell out stadiums anymore (Yes, does casinos). Remember the music industry has changed. But they could do large venues and be profitable.

[JKL2000]

As long as they can find someone good at impersonating the current Peter Gabriel to do vocals, flute, and tambourine.

BTW, I have a vinyl boot of the Milton Keynes reunion that sucks. Are there any good quality boots of it? Can't believe there wasn't at least a broadcast?

[Patelena396]

As long as they can find someone good at impersonating the current Peter Gabriel to do vocals, flute, and tambourine.

BTW, I have a vinyl boot of the Milton Keynes reunion that sucks. Are there any good quality oops boots of it? Can't believe there wasn't at least a broadcast?

The band has always stated that it was never professionally recorded. They wanted it to be an of the moment kind of thing. That said, you would think that the band has a soundboard recording of it sitting around somewhere.

[Patelena396]

For the first reunion at Milton Keynes, Steve found out about it, just with enough time to fly in and play Supper's Ready and the encore. I still have the program, Mr. Hackett is not listed in the credits.... and special guests were mentioned as Talk Talk, The Blues Band, and John Martyn, that has to tell you something about what they think of him. Steve attended Peter Gabriel's last tour. I have not heard if any of the Genesis members seeing the GR2 tour, though Steve said there were comps for his ex-mates. Hackett mentions that British men tend to have a problem with showing feeling. "We're all a bunch of repressed F@%$ers." he stated I believe at the Dublin show. Steve is a kind caring individual that goes the extra yard. Case in point- He stayed hours after a long show (and the curfew), during Nearest to sign and speak with everyone. John Wetton never showed up with UK. Could you imagine Michael Rutherford doing this?

Patelena396: How cool would it be if Tony Banks and Steve did an album together.

It would be a very interesting match.

A Phil-led Genesis with Steve, Mike , and Tony would be a must attend!!!! Maybe they could not sell out stadiums anymore (Yes, does casinos). Remember the music industry has changed. But they could do large venues and be profitable.

It's hard to say what the real deal is with Steve and Genesis, though it's apparent they are at least reasonable with each other. Considering the drama that goes on in other bands of the era, there is no such thing in Genesis. I have read that Steve was in South America at the time of this show and had to fly in, arriving late. To my knowledge, Steve never complained about the situation with this show as it is possible that it was originally believed that he would not be able to attend. Things are different now 30 years on, but also, at the time, it had only been 5 years since Steve left the band. Other than the band themselves, who knows, but I don't get the sense that there are any great issues. The fact that they don't run around attending each other's shows, doesn't really mean that they don't like and respect each other overall.

[philsunset]

Maybe they could write something new, The Lamb..40 years on, Rael is old now...and incorporate older music as flashbacks..just an idea...

[Adinfinitum]

Besides maybe Steve, nine of them need the money from another reunion or seem particular interested in revisiting or reinventing the past. Well maybe Phil's needs to pay off one of his ex-wives). If you listen to recent interviews, Mike Rutherford doesn't look back nostalgically on prog Genesis. Peter has been heard to say to his kids ("this is what Daddy used to do"). Phil used to rag on prog rock but after playing with the Musical Box, acknowledged the complexity and difficulty of the music and perhaps found a newborn appreciation of the music. Tony is Tony - no one will tell him what to do and when to do it.

I don't know about you, but most artist do not look back nostalgically on their past art - most are embarrassed by it, see the flaws and mistakes, remember the horror stories and difficulties in creating the music, recall the bickering, fights and struggle to create. Most do not want to revisit such things but look to the future.

However, I'd see them in a heartbeat. Steve's recent GR2 show was great. Would it have been better seeing all 5 on stage, of course, but at this point, I'll take what I can get.

[Splicer]

At least in the few years after Hackett left the group, I think there was a certain bit of animosity towards his departure. I've heard and read interviews that Phil did around the time of ATTWT where he comes across as having been insulted by the way Steve left the band. I also remember the R&R HoF induction and Hackett's quip about the "hall of blame". What did that mean?

[trurl]

Maybe they could write something new, The Lamb..40 years on, Rael is old now...and incorporate older music as flashbacks..just an idea...

Yeah! It could be called LLDoB2: What Ever Happened To Rael And Is He Sane?

[GuitarGeek]

Wait a second, who was bashing the politically correct? Or was it police constables who were being bashed?

[Obscured]

The band has always stated that it was never professionally recorded. They wanted it to be an of the moment kind of thing. That said, you would think that the band has a soundboard recording of it sitting around somewhere.

You would think the band has a pro video of The Lamb somewhere too...
My boot vinyl copy of the Milton Keynes reunion is called "Gabacabriel". Very good sound quality. Nowhere near sb.

[GuitarGeek]

You would think the band has a pro video of The Lamb somewhere too...

Why? They had just done one concert film from the previous tour. If what's said about the band's finances at the time are true (ie that they owed huge amounts of money to the record company), they probably couldn't afford to do another concert film so soon afterwards, especially not after the last one went unreleased.

On the other hand, they shot Genesis In Concert on the Trick tour, so perhaps it wasn't about finances so much as other concerns. (shrug) Maybe the band were so unhappy with the Shepperton film that they were initially hesitant to do anything in that arena for awhile. Or maybe it was decided that if they did do a Lamb film, it'd have to be the entire show, not just "edited highlights" (which was what you get with most concert films), and that might have decided might be a little "too much" for a cinema audience or whatever.

They also may have felt that they would have been able to suitably film the band with The Lamb show. They may have decided that cranking the lights up to where the camera be able to "see" everything might have spoiled the theatrical elements for the audience. It's been said that's one of the reasons Pink Floyd never filmed any of their mid 70's shows (and why the attempts to film The Wall concerts in 1981 were disastrous). I think it's also why they "cut away from the stage" so much in Genesis In Concert, because during Entangled and the laser bits in Los Endos and As Sure As Eggs Is Eggs, the lights onstage were more or less blacked out, and you wouldn't have been able to see anything on the film.

[GuitarGeek]

Maybe they could write something new, The Lamb..40 years on, Rael is old now...and incorporate older music as flashbacks..just an idea...

Ah, but one of the beautiful things about The Lamb is that it's very open to interpretation. Is Rael dead (or dying?), or is it "just a dream...a terrible, terrible dream" (paraphrasing Patrick Duffy's line in relation to the infamous Dallas "dream season")? Or is he a patient in a mental hospital, or one of those "crazy street people" who stereotypically roam the streets of every major city in America, muttering to themselves)? Or is it a particularly vivid, perhaps drug induced, hallucination?

If you say, "OK, let's find out what's happened to Rael in the last 40 years" you take away at least some of that open endedness, as it were. It would require you to throwaway the "journey through the afterlife" interpretation. I mean, where else can you go with that on a sequel? It also possibly implies that Rael did in fact not achieve redemption/transcendence.

So what options are you left with, assuming that rumors of Rael's premature death are indeed greatly exaggerated? OK, well, here's a few possiblities:

1. Rael's a priest/monk/missionary/whatever, having been greatly shaken by his dream/acid vision/whatever. OK, but once again, what do you do with that?

2. Rael's been successfully treated for schizophrenia, or so his doctors think. But in fact, Rael was never schizophrenic, and it wasn't a dream/acid vision/whatever. All that stuff really happened to Rael, and now what he's long dismissed as "a delusion of his untreated medical condition" comes back to haunt him. That sounds vaguely promising, but I'm not sure what you can do with it. It's not like Rael was "battling evil" in the original story, so it's not something where there's a "new threat to the universe" or "the old threat that had been contained has now escaped". Maybe if Rael had to banish someone/something to The Phantom Zone or whatever, you might have a place to go with it, but...

3. Rael is "leading a normal life", having successful treated his mental condition, and has been released from the psych ward. It really was all "just a delusion" and now he's married with 3 kids. Or whatever. Or maybe he's a successful artist, painting murals based on his memories of what his mind perceived to be the events of the original album. Either way, sounds massively boring.

In the end, I think it's the best the band doesn't lift the lid. That's the problem with "franchises", the producers/studio henchmen don't know when it's a good time to stop. Either there has to be a sequel, or a comic book, or a TV series (or vice versa, you start with a TV series, then you go a movie), or there has to be novels that fill in gaps in the back stories of the various minor characters who are on screen in the original movie for a grand total of 10 seconds (paging, George Lucas!). Oy!

I mean, how many Friday The 13th movies have there been? Eleven, if you count Jason Vs Freddy. Count 'em! Did we really need anything after, say about the 4th or 5th? In actuality, the guy who wrote the first Friday The 13th never intended there to be any sequels at all, he wrote a story where Jason's mother was a warped serial killer bent on vengeance, and when she's killed, that was supposed to be the end of the story. Period. It was everyone who else who thought, "Hey, let's tack on an ending that leaves things open, ya know, just in case".

And don't get me started on the Psycho sequels (hey, let's take one of the all time great movies, with one of the greatest and most perfect endings, and add on to it, even though the genius behind the original picture has been dead for 10 years).