Oh, the horror

[NogbadTheBad]

At least Nancy had the grace of disappearing before Syd Vicious' death .

I thought Syd killed her, or am I missing something?

I'm confused too, Nancy died of a stab wound while staying with Sid at the Chelsea Hotel in NY, he was assumed to have done it but ODed before any trial.

[Rael]

>> At least Nancy had the grace of disappearing before Syd Vicious' death >>
Thread closing time 3.... 2..... 1.....

Wait a minute, Nancy Grace killed Syd Vicious? Now there is somebody I really can't stand. She deserves the OP's vitriol far more than Kurt Cobain in my opinion.

[davis]

Wait a minute, Nancy Grace killed Syd Vicious? Now there is somebody I really can't stand. She deserves the OP's vitriol far more than Kurt Cobain in my opinion.

why you not like NG?

[NogbadTheBad]

why you not like NG?

Oh this should be good, if the thread wasn't killed before it will be after this reply.

[Vic2012]

Nancy Grace is hot .

[ronmac]

So why was Kurt called the John Lennon of his generation?

For the same reason The Bay City Rollers, Go-Gos and Bananarama were called "the next Beatles": total nonsense.

[Cuz]

I suppose Daniel Johnston would be wildly famous and revered if he had given in to his mental illness, instead of persevering and being a beloved but living cult figure.

No. No he wouldn't. No disrespect, but I have heard his music. It would never connect with the public like Smells Like Teen Spirit did. Which was a "hit" years before Kurt killed himself.

[Scott Bails]

why you not like NG?

Seriously?

[Rune Blackwings]

regrettably, i cannot kill this thread. sorry about the whole thing. I was very wrong in saying what i did (not about disliking the song-i still despise it)...

[Trane]

I'm confused too, Nancy died of a stab wound while staying with Sid at the Chelsea Hotel in NY, he was assumed to have done it but ODed before any trial.

OK, I'm not that sure how things turned out exactly... don't care to check it either (sure it's well documented on wiki)

Wait a minute, Nancy Grace killed Syd Vicious? Now there is somebody I really can't stand. She deserves the OP's vitriol far more than Kurt Cobain in my opinion.

I know I wrote my (relatively poor) post hastily, but not to the point to be understood the way you did ... Nope, Syd alledgedly killed her... either way, they're just as loathable as that Cuntney Loath Out of those four, only Kurt has some (a bit) sympathy from me

[davis]

Nog & Scot:

let's pretend that I don't watch Nancy Grace's show. Now, why do you not like her?

[Scott Bails]

davis - I suggest you look her up on the Internet. You really have to find out about her yourself. Wikipedia is a good place to start.

[Rael]

davis - I suggest you look her up on the Internet. You really have to find out about her yourself. Wikipedia is a good place to start.

Yep. I'm the one who brought her up, but I don't feel the need to go into it here...

[Baribrotzer]

While Cobain certainly was no genius, he came up with some great riffs and catchy melodys. As someone who came of age in the 80s (graduated HS in 84, college in 88), I will be forever grateful for his part in putting an end to the sterile and plastic sound and culture of that decade. Yes, I know, he wasn't the only one or the first, but Nevermind blew everything up. And Nevermind is a great album.

Kind of how I feel. Mainstream major-label rock 'n roll, at the time, had become little more than hair metal and "corporate rock" like Jefferson Starship or Huey Lewis. As professional as old-school Vegas acts, and as cheesy. Rap was taking over, because it gave at least the illusion of risk and rebellion. Sure, punk existed and had for years - but in the US, at least, it was the province of little more than hipster college kids and despised outsiders. The Joe Sixpacks of this world hated it.

And Kurt & Co. brought it back. He was something new: a punker who could write hits, who had a band that were rough and crude and dangerous-sounding but solid and had a reasonably creative take on the basics, and who was photogenic enough to be a star. Nirvana were the new Stones - based in punk and folk rather than blues, mad at the world rather than sleazy - but fresh, powerful, and threatening in a way rock hadn't been for years. And, like the Stones, they had a great drummer.

[Rune Blackwings]

Kind of how I feel. Mainstream major-label rock 'n roll, at the time, had become little more than hair metal and "corporate rock" like Jefferson Starship or Huey Lewis. As professional as old-school Vegas acts, and as cheesy. Rap was taking over, because it gave at least the illusion of risk and rebellion. Sure, punk existed and had for years - but in the US, at least, it was the province of little more than hipster college kids and despised outsiders. The Joe Sixpacks of this world hated it.

And Kurt & Co. brought it back. He was something new: a punker who could write hits, who had a band that were rough and crude and dangerous-sounding but solid and had a reasonably creative take on the basics, and who was photogenic enough to be a star. Nirvana were the new Stones - based in punk and folk rather than blues, mad at the world rather than sleazy - but fresh, powerful, and threatening in a way rock hadn't been for years. And, like the Stones, they had a great drummer.

I have to take issue with Jefferson Starship being "corporate rock". While they devolved to that in the 80's (thanks to the record label's marketing pushing them to be more youth oriented and to Mickey Thomas's rather commercially friendly voice), they were, back in their hey day as both Jefferson Airplane and Jefferson Starship early on, the "dangerous" music-I mean, not even Cobain could ever attest to getting his clocked punched by the Hell's Angels, pointing a shotgun at a police officer (although Grace was in her 60's for that one) or coming close to lacing the President's drink with LSD. Grace slick, Marty Balin and Paul Kantner have not been anything for the bulk of their careers if not controversial in some way or another. Comparing Nirvana as being radical next to the likes of Paul Kantner and Grace Slick is like comparing the kid with the tattoos to his once hell raising grandparents who have mellowed out in their old age. I think a lot of people forget that Grace Slick was the pioneer of women in rock and metal-the aggressive badass chick fronting the guy band.

As I said before, my dislike for Nirvana is rather noted and this for two reasons:

1. I always felt that there were better bands who got less attention-such as Alice in Chains. I think AiC was light years above Nirvana, but that because Nirvana got a great deal first, AiC and others as talented were shoved on the back burners. I think had Cobain not killed himself and instead lived on, the consensus on him might have been different.

2. I hated the music press's claims that Cobain was a spokesperson for for his generation. Cobain and I share a birth year (as well as Staley of AiC) and I resented that the person chosen for being representative of my generation was a suicidal drug addict. Basically, the whole of "Generation X", none of whom I personally know acted like Cobain, are judged by a minority example.

[Trane]

Originally Posted by Cuz
While Cobain certainly was no genius, he came up with some great riffs and catchy melodys. As someone who came of age in the 80s (graduated HS in 84, college in 88), I will be forever grateful for his part in putting an end to the sterile and plastic sound and culture of that decade. Yes, I know, he wasn't the only one or the first, but Nevermind blew everything up. And Nevermind is a great album.

Kind of how I feel. Mainstream major-label rock 'n roll, at the time, had become little more than hair metal and "corporate rock" like Jefferson Starship or Huey Lewis. As professional as old-school Vegas acts, and as cheesy. Rap was taking over, because it gave at least the illusion of risk and rebellion. Sure, punk existed and had for years - but in the US, at least, it was the province of little more than hipster college kids and despised outsiders. The Joe Sixpacks of this world hated it.

And Kurt & Co. brought it back. He was something new: a punker who could write hits, who had a band that were rough and crude and dangerous-sounding but solid and had a reasonably creative take on the basics, and who was photogenic enough to be a star. Nirvana were the new Stones - based in punk and folk rather than blues, mad at the world rather than sleazy - but fresh, powerful, and threatening in a way rock hadn't been for years. And, like the Stones, they had a great drummer.

You two have made the most elegant and eloquent defence of an usually (but underservedly) hated band.

Thank you for that...

Not that much a fan of the band, but Nevermind earns a spot in my top 200, if at least honorary...

[Trane]

It's about time you made a better statement than your OP

I have to take issue with Jefferson Starship being "corporate rock". While they devolved to that in the 80's (thanks to the record label's marketing pushing them to be more youth oriented and to Mickey Thomas's rather commercially friendly voice), they were, back in their hey day as both Jefferson Airplane and Jefferson Starship early on, the "dangerous" music-I mean, not even Cobain could ever attest to getting his clocked punched by the Hell's Angels, pointing a shotgun at a police officer (although Grace was in her 60's for that one) or coming close to lacing the President's drink with LSD. Grace slick, Marty Balin and Paul Kantner have not been anything for the bulk of their careers if not controversial in some way or another. Comparing Nirvana as being radical next to the likes of Paul Kantner and Grace Slick is like comparing the kid with the tattoos to his once hell raising grandparents who have mellowed out in their old age. I think a lot of people forget that Grace Slick was the pioneer of women in rock and metal-the aggressive badass chick fronting the guy band.

Different eras... comparing apples and oranges.... and if I respect the Airplane (one of my top 10 bands) and the Kantener and Slick soloalbums, azs well as early Hot Tuna, I'm definitely not quite thinking the same of J starship, even in their early days...

Cobain was a product of his generation, but had the guts to bring back real energy to rock again

As I said before, my dislike for Nirvana is rather noted and this for two reasons:

1. I always felt that there were better bands who got less attention-such as Alice in Chains. I think AiC was light years above Nirvana, but that because Nirvana got a great deal first, AiC and others as talented were shoved on the back burners. I think had Cobain not killed himself and instead lived on, the consensus on him might have been different.

2. I hated the music press's claims that Cobain was a spokesperson for for his generation. Cobain and I share a birth year (as well as Staley of AiC) and I resented that the person chosen for being representative of my generation was a suicidal drug addict. Basically, the whole of "Generation X", none of whom I personally know acted like Cobain, are judged by a minority example.

1- I'd say that AiC owes much to Nirvana, because if they finally got a major label deal, it's because of Nirvana and Pearl Jam... the labels started looting and signing everything that moved afterwards... if it wasn't for those two bands, we'd probably have never heard of AiC

2- correct me if I'm wrong, but that's not Kurt's doing (as you say yourself). and I'd say that Cobain's "aura" (however positive or negative that is) also gloomed all over the Emo generation that followed... but again, that's not his doing.... he didn't want any of that shit... That's part of his reasons for ending it all.
And about your personal generation's representation... How bad would the flower power generation having to feel about drug-addicted depressed suicide cases, with the Morrison, the Hendrix or Joplin were chosen as icons (the first being almost a spokesperson as well)

[ronmac]

I don't think Morrison was ever considered any sort of spokesperson, especially at the time. Those would be Dylan and Lennon, among a few others.

But, I digress.

[Trane]

I don't think Morrison was ever considered any sort of spokesperson, especially at the time. Those would be Dylan and Lennon, among a few others.

But, I digress.

You're kind of right.... Though I'd say Morrison's lyrics and texts became more reverred after his death than during his career... I mean, in the 70's and 80's (including yours truly), there were numerous kids who drank Jimbo's words ansd attitude... I adored American Prayer...

In that regard, we could say that Cobain's case follows more Morrison's than Sid Vicious

[100423]

1- I'd say that AiC owes much to Nirvana, because if they finally got a major label deal, it's because of Nirvana and Pearl Jam... the labels started looting and signing everything that moved afterwards... if it wasn't for those two bands, we'd probably have never heard of AiC

Actually I think AIC's debut,Facelift, possibly came out on Columbia Records before Nirvana signed to a major label and before Pearl Jam was even a band.

[Trane]

Actually I think AIC's debut,Facelift, possibly came out on Columbia Records before Nirvana signed to a major label and before Pearl Jam was even a band.

You're more likely right on this, coz i'm anything but an expert of those years >> I was just getting back to rock after an 8 years hiatus (83-91)... which would make Jen's remark even less justified. (sorry Jen )

[Yodelgoat]

Kurt was a pretty lousy musician. And he wasn't much of a human being.

[Scott Bails]

Kurt was a pretty lousy musician. And he wasn't much of a human being.

This is my whole point. I never wished him dead, I wasn't happy to hear about his death, but I just never understood the worship.

[Joe F.]

Actually I think AIC's debut,Facelift, possibly came out on Columbia Records before Nirvana signed to a major label and before Pearl Jam was even a band.

I think you're right. Facelift came out in 1990 and Nevermind came out over a year later in '91.

As far as Pearl Jam goes, I saw AiC in a VFW hall after they were signed to Columbia, but before the album came out. Jeff Ament (MLB/PJ bassist) was in the crowd and I was talking to him about the pending Mother Love Bone major label debut that was still pending.

[Baribrotzer]

Kurt was a pretty lousy musician. And he wasn't much of a human being.

Not too different from, again, the Stones: Mick has never been a conventionally "good" vocalist, and personally seems to be a sex-mad and money-obsessed sleazeball; Keith is a mediocre guitarist with one great trick, and a drug-obsessed sleazeball. Little better, if at all, than Kurt - a crude guitarist with an ear for arrangement and a gift for writing hits, a singer with a "guy-next-door" voice, and a horrible depressive who self-medicated with heroin and other illicit drugs. And ended it when they stopped working.

A lot of stars aren't very admirable people.