Congo (Live) - Genesis (Not bad, but...)

[SunRunner2]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K0DzbIeuDds

I saw this video for the first time tonight and was impressed with the overall sound, however, something was dreadfully wrong from my perspective. I know that this Ray Wilson vocalist is well thought of here, however, I am looking at this video and thinking "something is definitely missing". That would be the excellent vocalists named Peter and Phil, who carried this group lyrically and vocally throughout their illustrious career. To me, it is like Genesis "lite" with Mr. Wilson at the helm; he just doesn't have the dynamism and allure that Collins and Gabriel brought to the table.

What are the thoughts of other PE members on this subject?

[rdclark]

"Singer" isn't "the helm."

[begnagrad]

Saw the tour, couple of concerts, me liked it a lot.

Take all the songs from CAS, rename the band to Stiltskin II with guests Tony and Mike... great album

Missing song in Prague

[arturs]

Prefectly good song. Perfectly good performance. But I agree with the OP that something's missing.

What's different than the real Genesis? IMHO... The drumming. Phil's drumming was the lead instrument on a lot of 1980s Genesis hits. So powerful and confident. This guy is a good drummer but he's no Phil or Chester for that matter. He doesn't lead. He's just following the beat, set by Tony it seems.

[Yaman Aksu]

Few comments but only about this particular vid:

- Doesn't help that his voice cracks several times (can't hit the notes) up thru 2nd verse -- maybe it's late in the tour, dunno. It happened to Gabriel and Collins too. But I haven't compared them across many live songs, didn't seek to find an average "lines sung incorrectly/off" percentage for each.

- Viewer might find his movement relatively slow (but the song is too...and with dark tones...not exactly his fault...) which might not help if viewer instead somehow has energetic songs in mind to compare. Apples and oranges.

- That backdrop (a curtain not a screen, not to mention folds!) and the lighting (atypically minimal for Genesis) gives the stage design visually a high-school talent show look, not the vocalist's fault. Reminds of this one time when Phil as a radio show guest says "I'm wondering why the host has all the bass and the EQ in his microphone and we guests are just sitting here with these other mics sounding like wimps" --- give those guys on stage a better looking stage and light design, similar to the years before that, the whole band including the vocalist will look more dynamic for sure.

[Tangram]

Nothing wrong with the song. It's a good song. OK, Banks' intro was rather weak sounding, should have cut it or found a way to beef it up. Genesis wanted to keep its stadium audiences, which aren't always the most loyal of fans, but they cut the spectacle and the double drummers. As mentioned above, it's kind of like a high school looking show. They didn't put the work in, they assumed the band name would carry the day. It didn't and Rutherford folded the tent. A lost opportunity

[Tangram]

Saw the tour, couple of concerts, me liked it a lot.

Take all the songs from CAS, rename the band to Stiltskin II with guests Tony and Mike... great album

Missing song in Prague

Would have loved to have heard Chester have a shot at a big time solo slot like this. Banks and Rutherford messed up when they didn't let him join the band, which led to him walking.

[revporl]

That's quite good. Didn't really pay attention to the album but that is quite pokey, it reminds me of H era Marillion but a bit heavier and darker. Doesn't sound much like Genesis from any other era really, it was very much its own thing.

[Aggie87]

I think it would've been interesting to see where the Wilson/Banks/Rutherford Genesis lineup would've ended up, had it lasted for a longer time. This was really just the beginning for them, and could be compared to early Gabriel Genesis or Collins-led Genesis, compared to where both of those lineups ended.

Unfortunately, expectations didn't allow for that type of progression, and Wilson didn't end up lasting.

[pb2015]

Always wondered what was up with that lyric. The singer isn't getting along with his wife/girlfriend and she is going to make him go live in Africa?

[aith01]

Congo is one of those Genesis tunes I’ve loved since the moment I first heard it.

[Sturgeon's Lawyer]

These two live tracks sound better, and I mean much better, than anything live I've heard from the Collins version post-Three Sides Live.

[IMWeasel]

"Singer" isn't "the helm."

Yeah exactly -- you can't really blame it on Ray Wilson. If you dont like this version of Genesis b/c its not Phil or Pete thats your own hangup lol

[Flightwave]

I love CAS very much. It’s a solid album and in my top 5 Genesis records.

[EBES]

Re this particular video -- the bass has more of a thickier punchier quality and is much more noticeable in the arrangement than in the studio version, at least to my ears. Some nice little fill-in bits from the guitar as well. Those two things make it all a bit more organic-sounding than the original. The added intro drags a bit and I could do without the breakdown/sing-along (generally with most things, not just here). Vocals might be imperfect in places but not unusually so for live music that isn't carefully edited and curated. The staging is fine by the standards of anyone who wasn't five years out from packing arenas.

I was 14 when Calling All Stations came out, and I found it immensely exciting. Genesis were my favorite band and this would be my version, the one I was actually around for. I could write an essay-length post about my evolving relationship to this album since then but my feelings are (a) it has lots to recommend it and shouldn't be dismissed, (b) it's very imperfect and there's not much of it I can listen to without thinking about the flaws, and (c) I'm immensely sympathetic to Ray Wilson, who did the best he could with what was probably an impossible job.

Congo isn't one of my favorites on the album. It sounds great as a texture but the melody doesn't compel me and the lyric feels like a parody of a brooding intellectual love song. Wilson didn't contribute to the writing, so that's on Tony & Mike.

[Yaman Aksu]

These two live tracks sound better, and I mean much better, than anything live I've heard from the Collins version post-Three Sides Live.

Hmm to me this is confusing because these two vids, especially the first, really have voice pitch issues, as a matter of fact. Way We Walk DVD has songs at least as interesting as these two and with better executed Live vocals, including, at a minimum, Home By The Sea, Domino, Driving the Last Spike, all with high-energy parts which, being high-energy, elevate the vocals and other instruments even higher. Put the instrumental middle of Fading Lights into that basket too and the delivered overall energy that projects out to the audience, the sound, just seems more interesting , not just due to the Live vocals being correct-pitch --- and this includes comparison to this paeticular live Dividing Line (despite its higher energy than Congo here -- Congo is a good song but especially this Live version during verses rates low on the energy scale than those above WWWalk song examples on that DVD due to reasons such as: relatively low-freq (and consequently low-energy) male voice even though the guitar chords underneath are heavy alright (actually, heavy but low-tempo and dark...not high energy much). To me the band performance (the sound) ultimately has turned out more interesting on those particular songs of the DVD. But ok, everyone hears/prefers sounds in their own way.

[SunRunner2]

Good analysis provided above, and thanks for the input. I realize that Ray was attempting to fill some mighty big shoes, vocally, but the comments on drumming, from arturs, opened my eyes to one reason for the disappointment that I had with the video performance. Hard to beat Phil's fills.

As to the word "helm", I was using it in a general way, as in the definition "leading or heading up", which Wilson was as far as vocals were considered (correct me if am wrong).

Thanks for the input.

[pb2015]

I was 14 when Calling All Stations came out, and I found it immensely exciting.

That summer I moved to Chicago and was living with a friend who was a big Genesis fan, more than I am. For a month or so leading up to the release WXRT played "Congo" all the time and on the release day there were one or two launch events on the radio, including one where Ray did quite a good version of the opening of "Supper's Ready." I remember seeing an ad in the NY Times for the tour as well. And then...all the air went out of that balloon very quickly.

[Aggie87]

Some of the other songs from this concert are interesting, getting to hear this band tackle some of the older material.

[JJ88]

I watched that Katowice show on YouTube years ago and wasn't particularly impressed. Wilson is a good vocalist and does a fine job on Calling All Stations, but the Collins-era songs simply didn't suit his vocal range particularly well. He does have a superficial resemblance to Gabriel's voice. Yet by that point they were expected to play those Collins-era hits on stage. So this was all rather doomed from the start.

The poor US sales of the album and cancelled tour were a very ignominious way to go out and one can't pretend otherwise. Thankfully, the reunion tours with Collins completely restored their commercial status. I'm glad they aren't seeing out their days like certain other bands, that's for sure.

[JJ88]

They didn't put the work in, they assumed the band name would carry the day. It didn't and Rutherford folded the tent. A lost opportunity

It was a somewhat half-hearted relaunch. The album actually has some really good material on it but the arranging feels a little off in places, and then there's those weird early fades on some tracks. (I think 'Congo' itself ends rather oddly on the album.)

But it was a very different era, anyway. I don't know that an album with Collins would have been as big as We Can't Dance had been. Look at Collins' own Dance Into The Light, which was also far from the blockbuster success that Collins was used to.

[Sturgeon's Lawyer]

H'mmm.

The "Turn It On Again" video -- never liked the song but it seems like a decent performance. The lighting and camera work at the beginning seem designed to induce an epileptic fit.

I quite liked the "Lamb" video ... until the end of the third verse when Wilson brings out Collins's "Down, down down!" which always annoyed me.

[wilcox660]

I have zero problem with this iteration of Genesis. BTW - I'm at the helm of my opinion.

[Digital_Man]

I've looked at many lists for best to worst album rankings online and for Genesis Calling All Stations almost always shows up dead last. I think one time WCD was last though. Anyway, I feel the album is unfairly maligned. It's true it's not great especially compared to their 70s and stuff but I don't think it's nearly as bad as some will have you believe. I do agree that the songs sometimes fade out too quickly (something that was pointed out a long time ago on PE). Congo was probably the most well known song and the one that was played on the radio but there's a few other good ones too. It's unfortunate they didn't keep going with Ray but I think the issue was more about not thinking the fans would accept him as a lead singer (and they were probably right). I remember when I saw Genesis (for the first time) in 2007 they were playing this album before the show over the PA and I got the feeling hardly anyone there knew what they were hearing.

[aith01]

I have zero problem with this iteration of Genesis. BTW - I'm at the helm of my opinion.

Same here.