Is there a future for YES? or NO?

[Frankh]

And if you’re telling me you don’t know anyone who is stuck in the past when it comes to music

This is me all over. Roughly 1971 to 1976.

[jamesmanzi]

I was listening to Heaven & Earth on the way to work this morning, and I can confirm that there is a future for Yes in the lucrative children's music industry. Lay some lyrics about counting, table manners, and farm animal identification over that music and that album can finally reach it's potential.

(no, seriously. I love these guys, but what were they thinking?)

[abhorsen]

I know what you mean. The two "backing tracks" on Steve Howe's Anthology 2 are great. That said, I do like some of the finished album: "Masquerade", "The More We Live", "Miracle of Life".



I love the title track. Loved it when it was a Chris Squire Experiment piece.

And that's it.



"It was All We Knew" is great as it is (but I'd happily listen to a Belle & Sebastian version too). I quite like "The Game", but prefer "Believe Again", and adore "Subway Walls". It's the middle of the album that doesn't work for me, at all.

Hmmm... take all those bits and stick them together, and I think you've got a decent album!

And we haven't mentioned Talk, which obviously completes the quartet of Yes's 4 worst albums.

Hopefully, this is all history and we get great new studio albums from both the current Yeses.

Henry

Ok, now I want a Belle and Sebastian version of It Was All We Knew. That would rule! And I like the original. I am getting the impression I am in the minority in liking the majority of the Heaven and Earth album. I think most of the criticism I've read of it since the release is valid but so much about music's appeal to me can be rooted in the context/environment in which I first get into an album. Summer 2014 when H&E came out was a nice pastoral, relaxing time for me in the mountains, and I listened to that album quite a lot. So those memories and experiences are tied into how I feel about the laid back tunes on the record. Jon Davison's voice fits the soundscape of the album nicely as do the keys work by Downes. Yes has always been a pastoral band at times and certainly one that would be suitable for composing children's music in the proper context. H&E is not a great album but I don't find it deserves the vitriol I've seen directed at it either. FFH is pretty great and it's a step away from that but when looking at Yes albums since Tormato in 1978 I like it better than most as a whole, save for Drama.

[yamishogun]

... I am getting the impression I am in the minority in liking the majority of the Heaven and Earth album. I think most of the criticism I've read of it since the release is valid but so much about music's appeal to me can be rooted in the context/environment in which I first get into an album. Summer 2014 when H&E came out was a nice pastoral, relaxing time for me in the mountains, and I listened to that album quite a lot. So those memories and experiences are tied into how I feel about the laid back tunes on the record. Jon Davison's voice fits the soundscape of the album nicely as do the keys work by Downes...

My life at the time when I lived close to the country side of Japan in 1994 is a small part of the reason I like Talk. I also was always walking or biking on trials when I listened to Talk, not listening on a stereo while sitting down apart from "Real Love", which was fun to listen to in the dark. I'd skip past "I am Waiting" so that makes Talk 43 minutes of Yes bliss. Ain't that right, Henry?

I think "Subway Walls" is the most interesting song on H&E but isn't as good as "Walls" on Talk.

[Yodelgoat]

I just picked up Heaven and Earth off Amazon... Listening now for the first time as I type this. "Believe again" is sounding quite nice. reminds me a bit of some of the Davison songs with Glass Hammer. There are some really nice keyboard sounds in here. Nothing groundbreaking or earth-shattering, Just a nice song... I am not going to go through a play by play review, because it usually takes me a few listens before I really know what I am hearing. Already I do not begrudge Yes doing this. It is at their own expense and time that they chose to create this. If it turns out I hate it, I just have to hit delete - or never pull it up into my player again. Ignoring something is the biggest way to state how you feel about a song or artist.

Already, this will get at least a second listen from me. I like how they are bringing in interesting sounds to augment a rather bland, and weak melody. It didnt feel like an 8 minute song though...

Davisons voice is very suited to this type of music... OK. I think I am going to be OK with my purchase today. I'll be giving Talk another shot soon as well.

[abhorsen]

My life at the time when I lived close to the country side of Japan in 1994 is a small part of the reason I like Talk. I also was always walking or biking on trials when I listened to Talk, not listening on a stereo while sitting down apart from "Real Love", which was fun to listen to in the dark. I'd skip past "I am Waiting" so that makes Talk 43 minutes of Yes bliss. Ain't that right, Henry?

I think "Subway Walls" is the most interesting song on H&E but isn't as good as "Walls" on Talk.

I really like the image of hiking around Japan listening to Talk. I quite liked the album when it was released. The tour was pretty great for that too. It's been a long time since I listened to Walls or the album in general. Will spin it again this week!

[abhorsen]

I just picked up Heaven and Earth off Amazon... Listening now for the first time as I type this. "Believe again" is sounding quite nice. reminds me a bit of some of the Davison songs with Glass Hammer. There are some really nice keyboard sounds in here. Nothing groundbreaking or earth-shattering, Just a nice song... I am not going to go through a play by play review, because it usually takes me a few listens before I really know what I am hearing. Already I do not begrudge Yes doing this. It is at their own expense and time that they chose to create this. If it turns out I hate it, I just have to hit delete - or never pull it up into my player again. Ignoring something is the biggest way to state how you feel about a song or artist.

Already, this will get at least a second listen from me. I like how they are bringing in interesting sounds to augment a rather bland, and weak melody. It didnt feel like an 8 minute song though...

Davisons voice is very suited to this type of music... OK. I think I am going to be OK with my purchase today. I'll be giving Talk another shot soon as well.

Believe again was my intro to the album too! I believe it was released early on iTunes that summer so I got to spin it lots before the full album was released. I really like the song. Davison, Howe, Squire and Downes all shine on the song. H+E sounds like a perfectly natural album for that lineup. I dig all of the songs honestly. I wish Yes had toured the album and really played the record live with added material from FFH, Drama and maybe one or two classic songs from the 70's but that's it from the classic era. Maybe I've just seen Yes too many times between 1980 and 2002 but I don't need to hear the warhorses again.

[Rand Kelly]

Ok, now I want a Belle and Sebastian version of It Was All We Knew. That would rule! And I like the original. I am getting the impression I am in the minority in liking the majority of the Heaven and Earth album. I think most of the criticism I've read of it since the release is valid but so much about music's appeal to me can be rooted in the context/environment in which I first get into an album. Summer 2014 when H&E came out was a nice pastoral, relaxing time for me in the mountains, and I listened to that album quite a lot. So those memories and experiences are tied into how I feel about the laid back tunes on the record. Jon Davison's voice fits the soundscape of the album nicely as do the keys work by Downes. Yes has always been a pastoral band at times and certainly one that would be suitable for composing children's music in the proper context. H&E is not a great album but I don't find it deserves the vitriol I've seen directed at it either. FFH is pretty great and it's a step away from that but when looking at Yes albums since Tormato in 1978 I like it better than most as a whole, save for Drama.

I'm there too abhorsen, I love Heaven & Earth and It Was All We Knew is great it has a nostalgia feeling that I adore. I am so sick of seeing this "Tribute Band" crap. ARW started out as not being Yes, and now they are Yes featuring ........... and I found that was confusing venue promoters beyond reason. I nearly bought the wrong tickets because ARW was showing pictures of Steve Howe. It took a long time to be 100% sure and by that time Yes tickets were being sold while I was just waiting around pissed me off. I blame Brian Lane.

[DoubleDrummer]

Among many, many others................I saw the TALK tour and also the 97 tour after OPEN YOUR EYES.
TALK: It was interesting to me to see how much Rabin did for the band and how well he and Squire worked together, as well as he and Anderson.
The music from that album provided great material for live performance...............it clicked.

OPEN: I felt the tension between the old grouch (Howe) and the band because he was sharing the stage with Billy Sherwood.
Sherwood provided good accompaniment and stood next to Squire -- you could tell they liked this tour.
But (IMO) the surprise was Khoroshev..............OMG what a player.

[Koreabruce]

I just picked up Heaven and Earth off Amazon... Listening now for the first time as I type this. "Believe again" is sounding quite nice. reminds me a bit of some of the Davison songs with Glass Hammer. There are some really nice keyboard sounds in here. Nothing groundbreaking or earth-shattering, Just a nice song... I am not going to go through a play by play review, because it usually takes me a few listens before I really know what I am hearing. Already I do not begrudge Yes doing this. It is at their own expense and time that they chose to create this. If it turns out I hate it, I just have to hit delete - or never pull it up into my player again. Ignoring something is the biggest way to state how you feel about a song or artist.

Already, this will get at least a second listen from me. I like how they are bringing in interesting sounds to augment a rather bland, and weak melody. It didnt feel like an 8 minute song though...

Davisons voice is very suited to this type of music... OK. I think I am going to be OK with my purchase today. I'll be giving Talk another shot soon as well.

Personally, I really enjoy Heaven and Earth for what it is. I think you'll end up liking it for the most part.

[Frankh]

But (IMO) the surprise was Khoroshev..............OMG what a player.

Saw him on the Masterworks tour. Kansas opened. Had never seen them before, and it was five of the six main guys. They were so good I worried about Yes as a headliner that night. Needn't have. Yes hit the stage Close To The Edge, Starship Trooper and never looked back. Particularly effective was the Gates, Leaves Of Green, Ritual conclusion.

There is no telling what kind of contribution Igor could've made to the band.

It is another sad story in the Yes chronology.

He was, presumably is still so talented.

All this being said the band smoked so large that night that my sister and I,
she my partner in Yes crime so to speak, vowed never to miss them again if they were playing anywhere near us.

In this way she and I managed to see the 2000 Masterworks, the 2001 Symphonic, two 2002 and two 2004 tour shows with Rick. All as memorable as it's ever gotten or will get.

[Rajaz]

David Gilmour was not always the leader...

For Era III, he was. But right, not always..

Pink Floyd historically split in 3 Eras each with it's singular leader: Era I - Sid Barrett * Era II - Roger Waters * Era III - David Gilmour

[Rajaz]

Saw him on the Masterworks tour. Kansas opened. Had never seen them before, and it was five of the six main guys. They were so good I worried about Yes as a headliner that night. Needn't have. Yes hit the stage Close To The Edge, Starship Trooper and never looked back. Particularly effective was the Gates, Leaves Of Green, Ritual conclusion.

There is no telling what kind of contribution Igor could've made to the band.

It is another sad story in the Yes chronology.

He was, presumably is still so talented.

All this being said the band smoked so large that night that my sister and I,
she my partner in Yes crime so to speak, vowed never to miss them again if they were playing anywhere near us.

In this way she and I managed to see the 2000 Masterworks, the 2001 Symphonic, two 2002 and two 2004 tour shows with Rick. All as memorable as it's ever gotten or will get.

Masterworks 2000 was one of the two Best Yesshows I've seen, the other was the original TFTO 1974.

Kansas was a weak opener but filled the bill nicely. I agree that if it weren't for Koroshev;s keyboard contributions, maybe this tour would have never happened. I have the boot form the show I saw at the Starplex in Dallas, TX.

I saw many tours before the Masterworks and continued in 2001 and 2002 like you but Yes did not play in Texas for the 2004 35th Anniversary. I did not see them until 2009 at Bass Hall Fort Worth and all the following tours since then.

In the studio, Koroshev's best work was for The Ladder album specially in Homeworld which is one of my favorites, it's a shame Yes does not play it Live anymore.

[Trane]

Yes was always a fairly fucked-up band as I can read from Aymeric's book

When Broof left the band (just after recording CTTE) in March 72, he offered to play/tour with the band until they found a suitable replacement, which could've lasted until September or October, since Crimson was only starting to rehearse then. Squire and Howe immediately said no... and forced a bailout from Bill with 10K indemnisation towards the band and give up 50% of his CTTE rights to White (who'd have to defend the album on stage)

WTF?? Those guys were sordid individuals... I mean, I can understand the band not finding it opportunistic top have their drummer bailing out after an album release, but refusing Broof's generous proposal and taxing him that way... ??

[arturs]

^^^ IIRC the screwing of Bruford was 100% the dirty work of, you guessed it... Brian Lane.

[Scott Bails]

^^^ IIRC the screwing of Bruford was 100% the dirty work of, you guessed it... Brian Lane.

There's a surprise.

[strawberrybrick]

Yes was always a fairly fucked-up band as I can read from Aymeric's book

When Broof left the band (just after recording CTTE) in March 72, he offered to play/tour with the band until they found a suitable replacement, which could've lasted until September or October, since Crimson was only starting to rehearse then. Squire and Howe immediately said no... and forced a bailout from Bill with 10K indemnisation towards the band and give up 50% of his CTTE rights to White (who'd have to defend the album on stage)

WTF?? Those guys were sordid individuals... I mean, I can understand the band not finding it opportunistic top have their drummer bailing out after an album release, but refusing Broof's generous proposal and taxing him that way... ??

What's amazing is that they were able to create great music under what appears to be less than ideal working relationships.

[Buddhabreath]

Yes was always a fairly fucked-up band as I can read from Aymeric's book

... and as I recall from Stump's book and interviews, Yes were a right bunch of assholes when Gentle Giant opened for them on tour whereas Ian and Jethto Tull were buds and very supportive. Maybe they didn't like the competition and rankled when they heard arrangements more clever than theirs.

[Mister Triscuits]

^^^ IIRC the screwing of Bruford was 100% the dirty work of, you guessed it... Brian Lane.

Welllll...

Did the band members somehow not know about it?
Were the band members legally or contractually powerless to do anything about it? Did they even protest Lane's machinations?
Or did they just go along with it? If that's the case, I would modify that "100%."

[Zonefish]

Were the band members legally or contractually powerless to do anything about it?

These were musicians in their mid 20s...I am not certain they had the business acumen to realize the ramifications.
Or did they just want to record their next album or play their next gig? We see later on that they were ripped off left and right or invested poorly--the rock music landscape is littered with management types chewing up and spitting out the talent.

[Trane]

What's amazing is that they were able to create great music under what appears to be less than ideal working relationships.

Well, apparently, inside the band itself, it was relatively jolly, as long as you were constructive... which Banks wasn't during T&aW, and Kaye not wanting to dive/plunge into synths made him also not as constructive.
And though they (the band) were not impressed with White's drumming capacities, he seemed to melt in quite nice and be part of the band banter almost right away... Which transformed his limited try-out into a permanent contract really quickly.

... and as I recall from Stump's book and interviews, Yes were a right bunch of assholes when Gentle Giant opened for them on tour whereas Ian and Jethto Tull were buds and very supportive. Maybe they didn't like the competition and rankled when they heard arrangements more clever than theirs.

Something tells me that they were very much like that with most people not inside their little circle... I can see the Mad Flauter having strong enough a character to have Yes react with Tull differently (as Tull was making more big money earlier than Yes was)....

I've never had good vibes from Squire, who seems to be totally egoistical and 100% arrogant... As Broof once wrote , Squire would empty the band's petty cash box to go buy his stage clothes, not consulting anyone

^^^ IIRC the screwing of Bruford was 100% the dirty work of, you guessed it... Brian Lane.

Welllll...

Did the band members somehow not know about it?
Were the band members legally or contractually powerless to do anything about it? Did they even protest Lane's machinations?
Or did they just go along with it? If that's the case, I would modify that "100%."

These were musicians in their mid 20s...I am not certain they had the business acumen to realize the ramifications.
Or did they just want to record their next album or play their next gig? We see later on that they were ripped off left and right or invested poorly--the rock music landscape is littered with management types chewing up and spitting out the talent.

I can imagine Squire (and maybe Anderson) being frustrated at seeing another original member leave (but without being fired ), and also feel like it was the very wrong moment to leave (which would piss off Howe as well), Wakeman probably not caring too much , as he had his solo career to worry about I Yes got delayed.

Si I can imagine Squire (and Howe) telling Lane to sock it up into Broof's arse as far as he could.... I mean 10K£ was a bloody fortune in those days.

It's kind of surprising that after getting fucked that way, that Bill would re-join them in the late 80's. (though he joined the Anderson camp, not the Squire camp, at first)

[JJ88]

I seldom post in this part of the forum anymore...but FWIW, other than Alan White, John Martyn didn't gel with them either when he supported them. (I recall an interview with him not long before his death.)

The story about Bruford giving up half of the CTTE royalties is well known and in Chris Welch's book from the 00s. I too got the impression that was a management thing. Bruford and Howe seem to have stayed on good terms, AFAIK.

[bondegezou]

Well, apparently, inside the band itself, it was relatively jolly, as long as you were constructive... which Banks wasn't during T&aW, and Kaye not wanting to dive/plunge into synths made him also not as constructive.

I suspect their non-constructiveness was more about behaviour than the music. Kaye was off partying hard, and didn't come back from the US when he was meant to. My guess is that that mattered more than his attitude to synths.

Henry

[floyd umma gumma]

With regard to the question of whether there is a future for Yes - I believe there is a future but I expect it will continue to be to a diminishing audience - I will be surprised if they ever play Madison Square Garden again. Partially this is due to the aging of their fan base - however there are many acts of similar vintage with similarly aged fan bases who still sell huge amounts of tickets (Billy Joel, Springsteen, Sabbath for example. If Gilmour wanted to tour as Pink Floyd with Nick Mason and some hired hands they would certainly sell as many tickets as they wanted)

As long as Anderson works with Wakeman and Rabin I think they can continue to sell to the Yes base. If Steve Howe were to retire, I think that would be the end of the "official" Yes. Alan White is still hanging in there but it's a bit like watching Arnold Palmer when he played at the Masters in 2004. Who knows, maybe he will get it back . Cal Palmer still plays very well but he looks to have taken much better care of himself over the years. The remaining members of official Yes could certainly continue - even if they somehow are able to use the Yes name, they would be reduced to playing in little theaters or clubs to a couple of hundred die hard fans.

If either of the current Yesses puts out some shockingly fresh recorded material that may extend their longevity.

Even if they were to unite the 2 bands I'm not sure how big the reception would be. One good thing about the 2 bands is that each band appears happy on stage. When you had the "classic 5" lineup or even the Ladder line-up it didn't look like anyone on the stage wanted to be there with the others. So if you had the 2 bands unite you'd have Anderson and Wakeman being all nice to each other on one end of the stage and you'd have Howe and Sherwood over on the other end, and you'd lose the happy aspect of the band playing together. It's disappointing that the members have made so many negative comments about the others. Wakeman says he's not angry at Steve Howe but he sure seems to be. Perhaps it's because they gave Oliver the shaft. Anderson is more passive-aggressive with his comments about Steve Howe, which actually disappoints me more than the more direct comments I've heard from Howe or Wakeman.

[Luckie]

I seldom post in this part of the forum anymore...but FWIW, other than Alan White, John Martyn didn't gel with them either when he supported them. (I recall an interview with him not long before his death.)

I was going to mention John Martyn's opinion of them as well. It kind of rings true, but on the other hand I don't think any of Yes were guilty of gaslighting and beating their wives.

The story about Bruford giving up half of the CTTE royalties is well known and in Chris Welch's book from the 00s. I too got the impression that was a management thing. Bruford and Howe seem to have stayed on good terms, AFAIK.

And he was happily a part of Squire's solo album.