I think you've covered it. Great song, great emotion.Originally Posted by Poisoned Youth
I think you've covered it. Great song, great emotion.
I find the vocal melody and Fripp's melodic lead remarkable.
I like it a lot, but the ending is a bit ... standing still.
As NogbadTheBad said: Mumps and Dense would be ahead for certain.
And its not my favorite track on Red.
This.
Oh shoot, I thought the greatest song ever was 'Nile For A While' by Mr. Sirius?? And for some reason I was under the impression that the greatest KC track of all time was Bolero-The Peacock's Tale. Looks like I was way off yet again. I feel so ashamed!
In all seriousness though, the lead guitar melody is outstandingly remarkable!
Yes 'Mumps' is ahead of most everything for me too.... that and 'Nile For a While'
I wish. This was the first time I got to look at the thread after starting it. Anyway, just trying to add some content and try an experiment. It worked out pretty much as planned.
WANTED: Sig-worthy quote.
Funny I just watched this on youtube the other day. That guitar melody is just so beautiful. It really is a great piece of music.
Okay, I'll play along:
Starless is the greatest song ever because the wonderful opening song part is just so melancholy and mellotronic, following by Fripp experting building tension in the second part while Bruford (live versions particularly) embodies the Flying Brick Wall. The third part brilliantly releases the tension and brings it home by restating the theme. Sounds like a best song ever candidate.
Other candidates for Best Song Ever: The Musical Box, Firth of Fifth, Starship Trooper and (modern-ish prog edition) Jordrok
Jeff
You could also raise the question of whether "Starless" is a song, or a shortish epic. And whether they're the same thing, or can be the same thing. Or not.
Looking at a few other prog classics, "Firth of Fifth" could be either a song or an epic, as can "The Cinema Show" and "The Musical Box"; whereas "Watcher of the Skies" is clearly a song; "Supper's Ready" is an epic; and "Can-Utility..." is somewhere in-between. Although "Close to the Edge" does have some resemblance to a short symphony, you could also make that same case, since it can be seen as a vastly expanded AABA song form. "Roundabout" is a song, "Awaken" is an epic. In contrast to all of these, "Living in the Heart of the Beast" is mostly through-composed - except for the proletarian call-to-arms march at the end - so it doesn't quite fit into either category; neither does "Erk Gah/Hold to the Zero Burn". "Inca Roads" is a song, "Greggary Peccary" is an epic, and Side Two of Roxy (comprising "Village of the Sun", "Echidna's Arf", and "Don't you Ever Wash that Thing") is a song suite, somewhere between an epic and three songs that were usually played back-to-back.
Last edited by Baribrotzer; 01-25-2018 at 06:52 PM.
luv me sum Crim and luv me sum Starless...
but there are a ton of pieces better than Starless, even if Starless *is* one of the 5 best Crim pieces ever
Why is it whenever someone mentions an artist that was clearly progressive (yet not the Symph weenie definition of Prog) do certain people feel compelled to snort "thats not Prog" like a whiny 5th grader?
Love the first section, like the second section, then the saxes come in and I usually pull the plug.
Yeah, I just don't care for Ian McDonald on sax, he's great on flute though.
-noisynoise
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I was thinking Awaken was right up there with Starless too.
It's funny, because in both cases I also don't think a definitive version exists. For example, I love the guitar on the coda instead of the sax, but also for the opening instead of the violin. The live versions are amazing, and the current line-up is doing better and better, but it just doesn't have the edge that the '74 live versions did in terms of tone.
For Awaken, the '91 and many of the later versions build in a way that the original (studio or live) doesn't quite manage. One of the things that the '90s+ Yes does really well is the build up at during the final third of the song, just like the last part of And You And I before the coda.
Either way, they are two near the top of my list,
King Crimson's best song?
Starless
vs.
Larks' Tongues In Aspic Part 1
Best song ever?
"Close to the Edge"
Every song mentioned so far is in my top 5.
Big deal. This is PE. Everyone's Top 5 has 50 songs in it.
I agree with everything written about Starless in the OP. Starless and Epitaph are my top KC tracks. Impossible to pick one best ever, but those 2 would be on my short list with the following....
Yes--Awaken
And You and I
Heart of the Sunrise
Genesis--Suppers Ready
Musical Box
Cinema Show
Pink Floyd--Echoes
Shine On You Crazy Diamond
Kansas--The Pinnacle
....as the most impactful and moving tracks of music I love
+1
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I guess she knows it's the last track on the album, uh?
Wow...I mean, the last section and the way it ends is simply poignantly awesome. Still gives me the chills every time, and makes me replay the track
If you love the opening part, I can't really understand how you could find the closing section boring
The only thing that could've enhanced it is that Wetton could've sung another verse (even after 30 years, I still expect him to ... or wish he did anyways). As for the triple crescendo, one could argue that it is more concise than the middle section's crescendo. FTM, the middle section took me a fair amount of time to like
Add Lizard and you've got my top 3
So do I, but the sax parts is really poignant (not even taking intio account of McD's return to KC).
IMHO, the flute was impossible in Starless, u nless managing a spot for it in the debut
Yup, all 15 of them
my music collection increased tenfolds when I switched from drug-addicts to complete nutcases.
IMO it's the opening part with the vocals that's boring and uninteresting. I would put the song among Crimson's better ones if that stuff wasn't part of the song.
just like it's twin Moonchild, you got a haunting classic that transforms after the second verse and goes on a downward instrumental spiral towards it's conclusion. both would have been better with a tradition third verse and finale and a duration of half it's length. but back in the 70's most bands were putting out albums every year, so they had deadlines to record. it's all about filler filler filler! and in KC case, just cut and paste this jam and put it here and there- make it longer.
Starless is the perfect closer to the best album ever made. Some of the negative comments on here really have me scratching my head. The slow-building ending and incredible crescendo is one of the finest moments in music ever. I think some people just try to be controversial for controversy’s sake.
I have always felt this way, too. Red is over-rated as is this song. A big chunk of nothing new happening for too long. For years and years I didn't even like it, although when the latest three drummer version of Crim swung through town, it was okay. Fallen Angel, on the other hand, is, for me, easily the best song on this album.
neil
Starless has never been among my favorite KC tracks. I don't hate it, but I don't have the love for it some seem to. The thing that always disappoints me is that all that tension built up between about 4:30 and 9:10 resolves in... a blues jam. It just seems a bit anticlimactic and underwhelming to me, and feels like it's somewhat self-consciously reaching back to 21st Century Schizoid Man. I like the mingling of the opening melody and the bass line from the middle in this part, but I wish they'd found a different way to express those elements. Just my opinion, but that's just how I react to it, and that hasn't changed much since I first heard the song umpteen years ago; though I enjoyed it more in this recent tour than ever before - not quite certain why.
So, not a top song for me, but not a "skipper" either.
Bill
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