I've been really digging this track lately. Does anyone have a personal favourite live version they can recommend, preferably from either the Starless or Road to Red box sets?
I've been really digging this track lately. Does anyone have a personal favourite live version they can recommend, preferably from either the Starless or Road to Red box sets?
Starless has always been the definitive KC track for me if I had to choose one song, certainly of that 3 man era. Too many great versions to choose from however....
It was so cool hearing KC do that track live at the 2 shows I went to in Chicago and Milwaukee this year. Thought I might never hear that live.
Two that stick out to me:
The current version is particularly stunning, as it adds the saxophones and Fripp's chordal sledgehammer solo is goosebump-inducing.
From 1974 versions, I've always been partial to the Pittsburgh version - April 29th I think. It may not be the best one, but Bruford's dominance on the drums absolutely floored me as a Crimso Newbie back in 1993
Not that it's any better or worse than any other version, but my sentimental favorite would have to be the Stanley Theater, Pittsburgh version on Road to Red (also on Great Deceiver) because it was the first version of the song I ever heard. It was part of a radio broadcast sometime before Red was released. I was very puzzled at what seemed from the lyrics to be a "version" of the title track from Crimso's latest LP that was nothing like the freaky instrumental on the album.
Hurtleturtled Out of Heaven - an electronic music composition, on CD and vinyl
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I think I'm quite alone in this, but although I love a lot of the live-versions, I'm only moved by the studio-recording on Red.
Current version of the band I quite like Vienna.....Tony finally added distortion to his bass for the heavy part at the end and it adds a delightful crunch.
Else, my fave goes to the studio version.
I also would say the studio version is the definitive version, though I love hearing it live as well.Originally Posted by interbellum
Hmmm... I also like the studio version but am a sucker for the violin...such a beautiful sound.
Right there with you. All the live versions fall flat to me come the climax, especially in the 70s. The recent versions are better, but still...give me the studio version everyday of the week.
Please don't ask questions, just use google.
Never let good music get in the way of making a profit.
I'm only here to reglaze my bathtub.
Well, the first two versions I heard were Pittsburgh and Providence, as I somehow managed to own the Great Deceiver box before I owned Red (and in fact, come to think of it, I had the Pittsburgh version on a bootleg cassette, though I'm not sure if that was derived from the King Biscuit broadcast or the boxset, as I think this was already the mid 90's when I got that tape). But I don't think I've heard a version of the song I don't like.
Anyhow, one of those two would probably be my favorites, though I generally prefer the 1974 live versions to the Red version for a couple of reasons:
1. On some of the live versions, the last couplet of the last verse, Wetton sings "You may win/But you lose". Or at least that's what it sounds like to my ears. I know on other versions, he seems to sing "What you lose". Given that these may have been known at the time to be "placeholder" lyrics, he may have sang it both ways, on different nights. Anyway, I interpreted the lyrics to be about ya know, something like gambling or "making a deal with the devil" or some other similar situation, ie "You may win fame/fortune/whatever, but you may lose yourself/your soul in the process". And I always thought that fit perfectly with the tenor of the music, the chords, the melody, the arrangement, etc. So I was a bit disappointed to realize that particular couplet were dropped from the final draft.
2. Perhaps more importantly, are the melodic lines Chuckles plays during the last section, on the live arrangement. I'm talking about the reprise of the vocal melody, between the two solos, and the reprise of the intro melody over the coda. On the studio versions, those were assigned to the guest musicians. It sounds great on the album, but I preferred hearing them played with the laser beam fuzz guitar sound. On a related note, I always thought it was interesting that on the live version, Cross plays the intro melody, but on the studio version, Fripp plays it (which made it all the stranger that they gave the coda over to other instruments on the studio recording).
And I was quite pleased to hear those melodies being played by guitar when I saw Crimson a couple weeks ago.
The lost verse that got reused in a slightly altered form for UK's Caesar's Palace Blues. (which, in the Boston version, is itself so full of "placeholder" lyrics that it's almost hilarious)
For me, perhaps the most moving version of it was at the Emerson/Wetton tribute that Jobson and Bonilla did last year.
Could not politely disagree with you more at least in comparing 201x vs 73/74. I would define flat as lifeless or without spirit. Certainly a word I would never use on the 73/74 versions.
Out of control....sure....
sloppy sometimes... Absolutely
Flat? Hardly IMO.
Death inspires me like a dog inspires a rabbit
Yeah, but the couplet in question I think fit better with the feel of Starless than it did in Caesar's Palace Blues. That's my opinion, anyway.
The lost verse that got reused in a slightly altered form for UK's Caesar's Palace Blues. (which, in the Boston version, is itself so full of "placeholder" lyrics that it's almost hilarious)
Studio original
2017 Chicago Live recording
If it isn't Krautrock, it's krap.
"And it's only the giving
That makes you what you are" - Ian Anderson
The lyrics went through many variations throughout '74.
I definitely agree with the guitar reprise of the melody, although I also prefer Fripp playing the intro melody as well. The current lineup does the song justice, but there's a fire in the '74 versions, particularly that ending melody. I'd probably need to sift through and select my favorite middle part, which would hinge on a combination of Bruford's playing and Fripp's blistering '74-era solo just after the recapitulation of the verse melody. So I'd have to do a mash-up to get my definitive version.
I guess it shouldn't e a surprise, given Bruford being originally a "jazz drummer who some got sucked into playing rock music", but I'm always intrigued by the different things Bruford plays during the section, over that bass line (do I understand correctly that it was Bill who came up with that bassline?) on different versions. He really did a great job of taking over the percussion duties after Muir left, didn't he?
I like 'em all. Freakin' great song!!!
Along with LTIA1, I by far prefer "Starless" in the studio version. All other Crimson songs I prefer live.
The groovy one.
Sleeping at home is killing the hotel business!
Heard Cross/Fripp Starless Starlight?
Very beautiful and very sad. David Cross is a fine violinist.
Perhaps finding the happy medium is harder than we know.
Sure, the current version is great. But I must say that Mel C should take a step back. He plays too much. Also, the first fill he does in the song starts exactly when the first vocal part starts. Why not "introduce" the song for a while? Never would have happened if I was the musical director and not Fripp :-D
All of them. But right now, this one:
"The woods would be very silent if the only birds that sang were those who sang best..." - Henry David Thoreau
Thankfully, all is as it should be.
Sleeping at home is killing the hotel business!
I never thought I'd see "Mel C" and "King Crimson" mentioned in the same post.
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