Unfortunately, without Hammond organ there would be no proto prog!
Unfortunately, without Hammond organ there would be no proto prog!
no tunes, no dynamics, no nosebone
Originally Posted by nosebone
No Hammond, no Chalkpie.
Yeah, thud rock Tapsters, and not "proto".
Hell, they ain't even old-timey ! - Homer Stokes
Ok, but please just explain to me what is "proto" in Gnidrolog's music?
I'm just curious.
Not only that "greasy" Hammond organ sound, but also soulful vocals, heavy guitars and long, complex tracks. In the mid-seventies, the records-dealers had to separate on their mail-lists, with a new tag (i.e. "proto-prog"), the albums of early Deep Purple, early Uriah Heep, early Rare Bird and such, away from then-current hard-rock and progressive rock albums as they, for example, already had synths as something usual in the mid-seventies, and generally sound of rock music was changed, thus those early albums by above mentioned bands already in the mid seventies sounded pretty different than then-current stuff. For someone it sounded dated and awful, someone still loved it, but all were understood which kind of "sound" is on an album if see "proto-prog" tag that is typed on a mail-list with the various albums.
Btw, even Genesis was recorded one proto-prog track.
Last edited by Svetonio; 01-01-2017 at 02:24 AM.
Very true.
I never thought of Genesis as proto prog; not even "Trespass." I would say the closest they ever came to being proto prog was their very first album "from genesis to revelation" and it's questionable that even that one is proto prog. Maybe more like baroque pop or psych pop.
As I said above - just one "proto-prog" track they released, and that's The Knife.
Proto-prog means not a genre, it's a "sound".
Last edited by Svetonio; 01-01-2017 at 01:52 AM.
Gracious were influenced by King Crimson, yet they were totally unique to me. I was very impressed by their two albums. Did they ever open for The Who? I remember reading a post from a lady who claimed she witnessed the band doing some really strange things. Never mind, I just thought it was hilarious. I read that post in the early 2000's. I thought Gracious were uniquely odd. I also liked Family and collected everything. Music In A Doll's House reminded me of sections of Genesis music on Trespass and Nursery Cryme. And the song "Never Like This" written by Dave Mason is reminiscent of an early David Bowie song/style. Atomic Rooster were one of my favorites. In Hearing was great in its entirety. Lucifer's Friend released an album titled Where The Groupies Killed The Blues which was far more progressive than their debut. The real proof was revealed when I heard a bootleg concert of the band performing tracks from the Groupies album as they came across having a Classical background as opposed to playing like a straight up Rock band emulating Deep Purple and Uriah Heep. The Pink Mice album In Action was very good. Curved Air Second Album displayed a lot of fine Classical influence.
Those "proto-prog" bands, i.e. those legendary heavy-rock bands in their progressive phase that the records dealers - five-six years later - called "proto-prog(ressive)" due to the marketing reason only, actually were rather the great concert attractions than the studio wizards who make some perfectly executed albums.
Imo, the very best executed "proto-prog" album is In Rock by Deep Purple.
I saw Deep Purple live for the first time in 1975. As they were for the first time in Belgrade (on the first tour with Coverdale), they played the tracks from their early phase that were popular here, and I can say that those "imperfect" proto-prog studio songs, played live, sounded progressive as hell. Same with Uriah Heep - I even didn't like UH that much before I saw them live in 1977.
Last edited by Svetonio; 01-01-2017 at 02:58 AM.
You're obviously a bit older than me. I've heard you make this claim several times, and I must confess that I wasn't even aware that there were Progressive Rock mail-order dealers in the mid 70s. I never heard anyone make the claim until you did on this board. I still have most of the mail order catalogs that I received through the mail when I started getting serious about collecting. I was wondering, do you still have any of these mid-70s catalogs that you could make a few scans of and upload here? I realize that we should just take your word for it, but it would be nice to have verification. It might also end all argument, and in your favor. Perhaps you could also provide the names of some of these very-early-in-the-game dealers? I'm guessing Collignon and Geertsen, but I wasn't aware that they had started that early.
Not only was I unaware of Prog-Rock mailorder existing in the 70s, but I hadn't heard the term "Proto-Prog" until the 90s. I like to think I keep my ear to the ground pretty well, so if you can do some scans of dated catalogs, I'm sure it would be very enlightening. Thanks in advance.
In the 70s there weren't mail-order records dealers (re-sellers) dedicated to Progressive rock only, and I never said that.
Where did you read that I said that? Give me the link!
They sold everything - that's why they used tags, actually.
Don't know if you've seen this, but there are two fairly long videos of Gracious! playing at the Isle of Wight on YouTube...
Assumed because general sellers wouldn't normally go into such subgenre specifics. They wouldn't even know about it, nor would they be bothered to. Too many fish to fry. The Prog-Rock mailorder grew out of collectors getting into the selling game. First to help fund their purchases, then becasue it could be somewhat lucrative. A general seller would have been a businessman, and his knowledge would have been just that, general. He would have been able to tell you more about how the records made it to market than any kind of subgenre specifics, so it was not an unusual assumption on my part.
General sellers drilled deep enough in their descriptions to include the term "Proto-Prog"? Man, that strains believability. For that matter, how many general sellers were doing mail-order in the mid-70s? I think Jem might have had a limited catalog here in the US at that time, but if you would, please educate us on this forgotten bit of record collecting history. I find it interesting, anyway.
Names & scans?
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Recommended_Records 1978
Due to the low pound I bought most of my prog as mailorder in England during the mid seventies and forth, it wasnt ReR (before later) cant remember the name of the place, but they sent out a large catalogue.
Back to the groups themselves...
Like Enid, I have most of what 's on that list in the 1st post. I was wondering why no one mentioned Westfauster - In a King's Dream. This guitar-free 3-piece band came from Cincinnati, Ohio of all places and featured organ, harpsichord, piano, flute, sax, and drums. I'd never heard of it before I discovered it on YouTube this past summer, and I fell in love with the album. It's labeled "Psych/Progressive Rock", but I hear much of what is found in Proto-Prog... Then again, what do I know?
Keep in mind that the original list was not meant to be exclusionary. If it included everything that could be potentially considered, it would be nearly impossible to wade through the list and to isolate what could arguably considered to be the quintessential or the cream of the crop.
So this discussion gives th interested parties a chance to discuss beyond that with releases like Westfauster.
WANTED: Sig-worthy quote.
I didn't bother to delve through 4 pages of commentary, but any reason The Nice or The Moody Blues were not included?
"And your little sister's immaculate virginity wings away on the bony shoulders of a young horse named George who stole surreptitiously into her geography revision."
Occasional musical musings on https://darkelffile.blogspot.com/
[As I said above - just one "proto-prog" track they released, and that's The Knife.]
Well, it's not really proto prog to me more like heavy prog or proto prog metal. All MO of course.
Too well known maybe. I think the focus is on more obscure groups for the most part.
I know no such animal really exists but I'd like to see a version of the top 100 list that didn't include non English bands or Canterbury. For me it was pretty much a strictly English phenomenon. Canterbury I consider to be a bit different and imo was probably the first real prog subgenre not to be proto.
It's odd really, because I would not consider Traffic or Procol Harum obscure at all. And the Moodies and Nice were certainly on the same peer level as Procol and Traffic. I would also probably add Pretty Thing's S.F. Sorrow from 1968 as a quintessential proto-prog album -- mellotron, sitars and all.
"And your little sister's immaculate virginity wings away on the bony shoulders of a young horse named George who stole surreptitiously into her geography revision."
Occasional musical musings on https://darkelffile.blogspot.com/
Steel Mill, Green Eyed God? (not the Springsteen band) http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xtINb...=RDxtINblhERH4
Sounds really really nice! thx
no tunes, no dynamics, no nosebone
I'll make another list of favorites we missed the first time around!
no tunes, no dynamics, no nosebone
Prog fans have failed to define prog, yet alone proto prog. Sounds like anything with a folky vibe with echo effects and maybe a Hammond or Mellotron get included?
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