Robert Christgau and prog...

[miamiscot]

He has awful taste in music but is a very good writer.

[Scott Bails]

And the book also brought to my attention the existence of a record called Having Fun Onstage With Elvis, which contains no actual music, just Elvis demonstrating that he's a better singer than stand up comedian (it consists entirely of bits of him talking between the songs in concert, during the early 70's).

This remains the only album released while Elvis was alive that hasn't been released on CD.

So, someone had some sense at RCA.

[bRETT]

The NYDolls were the archetypal garage band, playing rock 'n roll in its "purest", rawest form for the love of it. They were "authentic" but not conscious of it. Their rootsiness was almost inadvertent - what "roots" they had didn't extend further than the Stones, the Kinks, very early Beatles, and various Sixties one-hit-wonder garage bands of the sort compiled on the Nuggets series. .

I agree with most of what you say about the Dolls, but I'd say they're less "rootless" than that-- They really loved the whole Brill Building tradition, witness their covers (the Shangri-Las, Leiber & Stoller, etc) and their choice of Shadow Morton as producer. Much of that probably came from Johansen, who turned out to bea pretty serious music scholar in his solo career.

[Dana5140]

Christgau on Magma:

"An art-rock band with its own mythology- big deal. But these guys have also made up their own language. One night when I was painting my auxiliary record shelves I put on Attahk and started laughing out loud. I'm told Attahk is one of the fast ones, though."

However, that's Christgau. We should talk Lester Bangs... :-)

[Progbear]

This remains the only album released while Elvis was alive that hasn't been released on CD.

So, someone had some sense at RCA.

Clearly not the same person who decided to withdraw and melt down poor-selling titles to press new records. Wondering why originals of Annette Peacock’s I’m the One are so scarce? Most copies became John Denver’s Greatest Hits!

[GuitarGeek]

This remains the only album released while Elvis was alive that hasn't been released on CD.

So, someone had some sense at RCA.

Is that right? Well, yeah, if I was in charge of the Elvis reissue program, I'd discreetly and conveniently "forget" that album ever existed, too.

Actually, it's probably someone at the Elvis estate, whoever it is who's in charge of those things. They probably said "Do we have to reissue Having Fun Onstage With Elvis", and the guys at RCA were probably smart enough to say, "No, no we don't, actually".

But this reminds me, I need to get more Elvis records.

[Baribrotzer]

I agree with most of what you say about the Dolls, but I'd say they're less "rootless" than that-- They really loved the whole Brill Building tradition, witness their covers (the Shangri-Las, Leiber & Stoller, etc) and their choice of Shadow Morton as producer. Much of that probably came from Johansen, who turned out to be a pretty serious music scholar in his solo career.

You're right, and I should probably add Motown and Stax and soul music in general, as well. And maybe Creedence, who had that classic raucous garage sound, but better songs and lots of them. But all of that was music they would have heard on Top-40 radio growing up - it wasn't the Chess or obscure "race" label blues records Mick and Keith collected and had to search for.

Also, that stuff was only five to ten years old when they formed. It might have been overtaken by newer styles, by psych/prog, by folk-rock, by later Motown, by country-rock, and so forth, it might have been considered a bit dated by then, but at the time it wasn't considered "roots" music. It was just yesterday's hit singles.

[pb2015]

I recall reading that Elvis demanded that the Having Fun... album be deleted. Probably in the CD age everyone had the good sense to stick by that decision.

I owned the LP once. It was just sort of boring.

[GuitarGeek]

I recall reading that Elvis demanded that the Having Fun... album be deleted. Probably in the CD age everyone had the good sense to stick by that decision.

That's what it says on Wikipedia. The album was (SURPRISE!) dreamed up by Van Kuijik, in a bid to put out an album on his own label so he could profit off it directly, and not have to share the monies with RCA. Of course, RCA ended up issuing their own version of the album, so the Corporal's plan kinda backfired.

You know what the really strange thing is? Apparently, some disturbed individual put together a bootleg called Having Fun With Elvis Onstage Vol. II!

[aith01]

That's what it says on Wikipedia. The album was (SURPRISE!) dreamed up by Van Kuijik, in a bid to put out an album on his own label so he could profit off it directly, and not have to share the monies with RCA. Of course, RCA ended up issuing their own version of the album, so the Corporal's plan kinda backfired.

You know what the really strange thing is? Apparently, some disturbed individual put together a bootleg called Having Fun With Elvis Onstage Vol. II!

Wow... This is the kind of thing that you just cannot make up.

[pb2015]

I have also seen fanmade "Having Fun" comps online for other artists (Robert Plant being one of the more surprising ones).

[BigSixFan]

I always liked the crack about the first UK album, where he said that it demonstrated that "rocking out in 9/8 isn't particularly difficult or impressive, it is in fact completely impossible".

There was a review of one of the Yes albums, where he said he preferred Yes over ELP, but eventually even Yes wore out their welcome with him.

But I think the last word in funny record critic style commentary is a book called The 100 Worst Rock And Roll Albums Of All Time. There's 50 singles (including one by Phil Collins) and 50 albums (including records from Roger Waters, Yes, ABWH, ELP, Queen, Chicago, Lou Reed, the Grateful Dead, and the Starland Vocal Band). There's also various side lists, like "Worst Elvis compilations", "Sibling banality" (a list of musicians, such as Simon Townshend, Chris Jagger, and Mike McCartney, who demonstrated that they weren't as talented as their more famous siblings), and also a list of bands who "should have stopped while they were ahead".

There's a lot of great bon mots in that book. An Elvis record called Elvis Sings For Children (And Grown Ups, Too) is described as "and satisfies neither". An Elvis best of called Hits From The Movies is dismissed as "What hits?!". The commentary on Chicago At Carnegie Hall notes that they began their career with three consecutive double LP's, noting, "From day one, they didn't know when to shut up". There's a great bit about Jon Anderson "singing about birds and mountains. At least the birds could fly away. The mountains weren't so fortunate. They had to stay and listen to Jon sing". And the book also brought to my attention the existence of a record called Having Fun Onstage With Elvis, which contains no actual music, just Elvis demonstrating that he's a better singer than stand up comedian (it consists entirely of bits of him talking between the songs in concert, during the early 70's).

I mean, if you've got a sense of humor, this is a hilarious book. And it's hard to argue with anyone who cites My Ding-A-Ling as the worst single of all time.

I've bought this book decades ago and still have it. Absolutely hilarious, even if Jimmy Guterman pokes malicious fun at our prog heroes.

As for Xgau, all I can think of is "Those whom the gods destroy, they first make proud." When Christgau was flying high, skewering the likes of ELP, Yes and others who devoted their lives trying to strike new ground, he was as proud as a peacock. It's not hard being a critic, kicking those who do not seem worthy of his lordly attentions. But life has taken this arrogant Noo Yawk City elitist a painful turn, and he couldn't emulate Nat Hentoff as a cultural elder statesman, while prog lives on long after Christgau and the rest of us are dust.

Some like to say it is sad, but then I think of the endless pain Keith Emerson and so many others must have had every time he saw the treatment of works they poured their hearts and souls into get needlessly trashed by an arbiter of what does and does not constitute rock music. A firm believer that REAL rock is American, blues and R&B based, no more than two minutes in length, or has a political message attached, he had no use for prog. Fine, it's his opinion; he's entitled to it. We have our opinions as well, and I for one do not mourn his professional demise. Schadenfreude...

[Baribrotzer]

I've come to think that the earliest generation of rock critics might have really been primarily folk music fans - hip intellectuals who partied and danced to R&B because you couldn't really dance to serious topical folk music, and who "went electric" along with Dylan. Blues, country, and R&B were all OK because they were the music of the oppressed, of black people and poor Appalachian whites. But British guys exploring their own European cultural roots in classical music were simply not "authentic", and "authenticity" was the ne plus ultra of music, and of art in general.

[aith01]

I've come to think that the earliest generation of rock critics might have really been primarily folk music fans - hip intellectuals who partied and danced to R&B because you couldn't really dance to serious topical folk music, and who "went electric" along with Dylan. Blues, country, and R&B were all OK because they were the music of the oppressed, of black people and poor Appalachian whites. But British guys exploring their own European cultural roots in classical music were simply not "authentic", and "authenticity" was the ne plus ultra of music, and of art in general.

Interesting... I never thought of it like that, but you make some good points.

[moecurlythanu]

I think they were 50s-early 60s style Rock n Roll fans, and anything that didn't fit into the same rubric as their beloved (often) driving, simple, r&b based music was doomed to be considered anathema. When Punk came along with it's driving, simple music and rehash of 50s toughs clothing styles, (safety pins as an embellishment, of course) they were all in.

The exception being anything that fit the New York art scene, bonus points for being influenced by the Velvets.

[BigSixFan]

I've come to think that the earliest generation of rock critics might have really been primarily folk music fans - hip intellectuals who partied and danced to R&B because you couldn't really dance to serious topical folk music, and who "went electric" along with Dylan. Blues, country, and R&B were all OK because they were the music of the oppressed, of black people and poor Appalachian whites. But British guys exploring their own European cultural roots in classical music were simply not "authentic", and "authenticity" was the ne plus ultra of music, and of art in general.

Agree completely. I think it is politically based to a large extent by embracing the Seegers and Guthries of folk music, along with the rebelliousness of Hank, Sr. Then came Bob to take the torch, and this runs pretty much to a straight line to the punks. It is a world where being a rebel was what their type of rock was all about, which explains why they never embraced the bubble gum of the sixties, preferring music with an edge, an anger. Prog rarely discussed topical issues, preferring science fiction and fantasy themes with a music that is not blues-based. Remember, part of the sixties also included the civil rights era and the black nationalist movements, with prominent jazzers like Charlie Mingus, Ornette Coleman and Miles Davis expressing their rage through their instruments with fire, passion and fury. Christgau and Bangs were smack dab in the middle of all the turmoil, and the rage of the folk/rock/jazz movement reflected their own rage...

[Baribrotzer]

The exception being anything that fit the New York art scene, bonus points for being influenced by the Velvets.

Partly because that music came out of the same social circles the critics belonged to, partly because it embraced the urban dark side of drug addiction and grimy alternate sexuality, and partly because it represented a "true", "authentic" path for art-rock: raw and consciously simplified, but with deep intellectual baggage, rather than musically elaborated upon but with slender philosophical justification. In a way, the VU were a musical version of the Beats, rather than the hippiedom that fueled psych/prog; and those early critics, I think, also came more out of the Beat movement than anything else. I know one of them slightly - Richard Meltzer - and he's definitely a Beat of sorts.

[Dana5140]

Bill Martin referred to this as the Blues Orthodoxy- that the critics could understand music based on the blues, since it grew out of Black culture and oppressed people, and was more of the "people's music," as opposed to all the prog and art rockers that grew out of more classical (i.e. elite) music. I think baribrotzert and BigSixFan have this right.