What caused that enthusiasm for the avantgarde music in the first half of the 80s?

[Svetonio]

What caused, in your opinion, that sudden enthusiasm, in the first half of the eighties, for the avantgarde, ambient and experimental music in general?
For example, Terry Riley's 80s albums were exposed in then-record stores next to the commercial LPs of Japan, Bauhaus, Yello and such.
In my humble opinion, it was that groundbreaking, sample-driven collaboration between Brian Eno and Byrn on My Life in the Bush of Ghost, released in February 1981.




Rick Wright said "knocked me sideways when I first heard it – full of drum loops, samples and soundscapes. Stuff that we really take for granted now, but which was unheard of in all but the most progressive musical circles at the time... The way the sounds were mixed in was so fresh, it was amazing."
Kate Bush said in an interview in 1985 that the album "left a very big mark on popular music".

[Beebfader]

I think there was a general `opening out' maybe caused in part by the punk/new wave/DIY explosion....a return to street level releases and self promoted concerts perhaps. Even the likes of Fripp and Eno were feeling the energy, as well as Byrne (a relative newcomer).

[Zeuhlmate]

My personal perception - The classic prog rock was for most bands (except KC) getting a bit samy / tedious or even pop-commercial, so if you liked to be challenged musically, you had to look for new directions. That was RIO, avant, or jazzfusion of different kinds.

[Trane]

I think there was a general `opening out' maybe caused in part by the punk/new wave/DIY explosion....a return to street level releases and self promoted concerts perhaps. Even the likes of Fripp and Eno were feeling the energy, as well as Byrne (a relative newcomer).

Not sure that avant garde stuff sold a lot to the public... I never saw Throbbing Gristle or This Heat albums up on the front window racks next to Ultravox either... FTM, I didn't discover tose bands until the late 90's... Just like the RIO bands (discovered those in the early to mid-90's as well), one had to be really searching in weird places (as in not immediately obvious) to find them. For ex: I had heard of Cabaret Voltaire and Killing Joke (they were spoken about on the rock tv show The New Music - forefather of the future MuchMusic) but it's not like that brought mega attention to the bands and albums.


It was probably big on some artistes, but the mainstream public didn't hear much of it... Well maybe the Eno & Byrne collab Bush thingie.

[markwoll]

At the time I remember playing two new records for some punk/new wave loving friends, "My Life in the Bush of Ghosts" and "Boy" ( U2) .
They loved Boy and were totally mystified by the Eno/Byrne record. They loved Talking Heads, Clash, Ramones, etc.
The Talking Heads "Remain in Light " was still pretty new and was a departure from '77 and MSABAF, there were more similarities with "Fear of Music" which did have Eno all over it.

Eno and Byrne were leveraging older Musique concrète with new technologies. A stunning album, still one of my favorites.
It was clean and sharp. Compared to noise bands that were still doing cut and splice with tape to generate their sounds along with raw synth it was Pretty and shiny.
But, still jarring to those who wanted "Great beat, easy to dance to, I give it a 10" new wave fans.

[jake]

I wonder if the advent of the CD which began around that time had any influence. From this graph it looks like not only did CDs overtake vinyl in the 80s but the volume increased hugely - so avant-garde music sales may just have risen with the general tide.


source http://blog.thecurrent.org/2014/02/4...e-handy-chart/

[zravkapt]

No avant anything ever sold well (stuff like "Revolution #9" doesn't count). What you are talking about is different eras with different influences. In the late 1960s many (but not all) rock bands were influenced by folk, blues, R&B, jazz and classical. In the late 1970s many (but not all) rock bands were influenced by reggae, proto-techno, proto-industrial, proto-ambient, funk and disco.

[Scrotum Scissor]

^ True.

Still Svet is correct in that there was a quite peculiar boost of general interest in some (or even many) things "avant-garde" in the wake of the more radical offsprings from the punk and art-punk endeavours. Rock listeners with a penchant and nerve for "otherness" who had previously perhaps dwelled into the outer echelons of experimental progressive would now actively seek out new terrains within the frame of post-punk, electronic and vintage ambient, new wave, NDW, industrial etc. In many aspects, Bowie's accomplishments through his Berlin trilogy and further achievements by Roxy M., The Tubes, Residents (and indeed the Ralph label) stepped into the vacuum left by what many folks regarded as the stagnant undertakings of purportedly adventurous 70s rock music. In the UK, bands like the Virgin Prunes, Japan, Magazine, Wire, (early) Simple Minds, New Order etc. basically all considered themselves "experimental" to some extent - and legitimately so.

Hugues is also right in that the venture of RIO (or avant-progressive) never really reached a significant audience, except for the odd playing of Zamla tunes on Swiss and French radio accomodated by the status of "out" music at large in these countries, be it Magma or Gainsbourg. Of course, being the certified RIO fanatic that I am, I'll continue to champion the notion of this as the "actual" continuum of the progressive rock medium. But no, I doubt if there was much overt "success" to speak of as such, other than with particular critics.

[cazz]

Disco sent artistic people for the hills

[GuitarGeek]

Well, believe it or not, I imagine MTV and it's after effects had a lot to do with it. MTV had a shown on circa 1983 called IRS Presents The Cutting Edge, which I believe focused on more sort of underground music. I recall they did a segment on Fripp one time. I think being associated with popular (or semi-popular) bands like Talking Heads and U2 probably gave Eno's other activities a boost at the time, too.

I recall PBS had a music show, where they featured people like Laurie Anderson and David Van Tiegham (who I also remember was featured on Ripley's Believe It Or Not, because of his use non conventional percussion instruments). Sesame Street, of all things, also sometimes featured the likes of Joan LaBarbara and Phillip Glass accompanying the animated segments.

Night Flight, on the USA Network, also featured a lot of more sort of avant oriented stuff, again you'd see people like Laurie Anderson, Eno, and Cabaret Voltaire there.

Publications like Guitar Player and Guitar World wrote major articles on musicians like Sonic Youth, Elliott Sharp, Glenn Branca, Rhys Chatham, Fred Frith, Henry Kaiser, Derek Bailey, Sonny Sharrock and Hans Reichel. GP's sister magazine, Keyboard, wrote articles on Terry Riley, Sun Ra, John Cage, Conlon Nancarrow, Pauline Oliveros, Carl Stone, Stuart Dempster, Stephen Scott, Controlled Bleeding, etc. I also remember the local library having several books on avant garde music (as well as an extensive LP collection of such music, including damn near every Stockhausen record that Deutsche Gramaphone put out, some Terry Riley, Morton Subotnick and at least one John Zorn record, Spillane). I can't be the only person who discovered the above names via those channels.

And later in the decade, VH-1's New Visions show once again sometimes featured people like Phillip Glass and Laurie Anderson. And one of the first times, maybe the first time, I ever heard David Torn's music (though I may have read about him in Guitar Player and Guitar World first) was when he performed on the New Visions show that Bill Bruford hosted (whether that was Bruford's idea, ie "I'd like to have this bloke I've just recorded with come on and play for the audience", or the producers' idea, I still don't know).

Then there's the proliferation of college radio (you tune in for the punk rock show at 4:00pm, but maybe continue listening at 6:00 when the next guy comes in and plays The Residents and Live Skull), as well as record labels who were apparently pumping at least money into avant garde music. If Terry Riley, Phillip Glass, and John Zorn seemed highly visible in the 80's, it might have been because they were all on labels that were putting promotion dollars into making it happen.

[markwoll]

it was the drugs

[infandous]

I used to listen to an avant-garde radio show in my senior year of high school (1987). I really can't say now how popular it was or who was even featured. That was really my first exposure to such music and didn't really leave much of an impression (though I did like a lot of it, it didn't inspire me to seek it out to add to my collection for whatever reason). Of course, later in life I've come to embrace a lot of RIO bands and albums, but I was pretty much unaware of any 80's "enthusiasm" for avant-garde music..........though, I didn't even really start really getting in to music in general until 1982-83 or so (in terms of having favorite bands, style of music, etc.). It would take almost 10 more years for me to really start looking at non rock/pop genres with any serious interest.

[MYSTERIOUS TRAVELLER]

My personal perception - The classic prog rock was for most bands (except KC) getting a bit samy / tedious or even pop-commercial, so if you liked to be challenged musically, you had to look for new directions. That was RIO, avant, or jazzfusion of different kinds.

even though I'm an old guy of the first-gen Prog crowd, I was unaware of the Avant movement by the time the 80s rolled around. I instead got into Hardcore Punk and the New Wave club scene. It wasn't until about 2000 that I found the Avant Rock style of Prog, but I would agree with your POV on this.

[Svetonio]

Still Svet is correct in that there was a quite peculiar boost of general interest in some (or even many) things "avant-garde"(...)

Well, yes, we loved those avant LPs that were "listenable" avant music. At least in my circle, we didn't loved "unlistenable" avant-garde music. For example, I loved, and I still do, György Ligeti's creepy choir on Lux Aeterna / Volumina / String Quartet No.2 / Etude No.1 the album released on Deutsche Grammophon in 1983, but I didn't like that String Quartet No.2 on the same album, to be honest. Btw, I also loved so much that creepy choir on John Adams' Harmonium the album, released on ECM in 1984 :



I love creepy

[Jefferson James]

In hindsight the early '80s seem really frivolous and irreverent, almost a Roaring '20s vibe; in the States things were good financially and people had more disposable income and time on their hands. I think MTV had a lot to do with it -- content and all that. So you had bands like Art in America getting video rotation. It was a great musical time in general, likely the energy of punk fused with the songwriting of the '60s (generalizing, thinking of Pretenders and that insanely wonderful debut album) spurred on by the new digital revolution. A zeitgeist thing.

These days we're too fragmented and internalized as a society and things look pretty grim on a global level -- no worries -- so I'm skeptical younger generations will ever come together enough to create another over-arching artistic advancement period which influences and changes the culture the way, say, the '60s did.

Maybe people were smarter in a dumber world than now, and more open to things?

I was 18 in 1980 and I don't really recall the period with fondness in a sense of feeling like I belonged to something greater than myself. I thought most of it was horrific and self-centered. But great music managed to come thru. I went on a Police binge a few weeks ago and was aghast at the originality of the music and the band. That shit still rocks so hard.

[regenerativemusic]

Wire was a major leader in this, releasing avant-garde music in the late 70s. The solo members albums were also experimental.

[Digital_Man]

My guess is that the avant garde and RIO stuff was not trying to be commercial in the first place therefore when punk and new wave came along it's not like they were going to lose anything. They were never really in so how could they suddenly be out? Also, maybe there was a sense of "let's see what we can get away with" by not following the herd.

[Scrotum Scissor]

My guess is that the avant garde and RIO stuff was not trying to be commercial in the first place therefore when punk and new wave came along it's not like they were going to lose anything. They were never really in so how could they suddenly be out? Also, maybe there was a sense of "let's see what we can get away with" by not following the herd.

There's a pretty clear distinction between avant-progressive (as manifested in RIO or Zeuhl music of the time) and avant-rock at large. Both essentially evolved from a rather complex set of virtues and principles developed from underground rock as far back as '67-69, but only the former (avant-progressive) actively integrated the experience of compositionally adventurous 70s rock. Still, even one of the original RIO bands, namely Etron Fou Leloublan, took significant information from their contemporary punk surroundings and indeed even performed at punk festivals and on bills with punk groups on a more or less regular basis. I don't think any of them pondered about "getting away with" anything; they were all genuinely dedicated in their respective creative visions, whether improvising freely or charting fiercely intricate ensemble works or simply playing oddball songs (like EFL). What basically set avant-progressive (as in RIO) apart from "conventional" progressive rock of yore, was a consistent attention to formality and aesthetic theory - there were no simulations of "high art" or aspirations at that, no wannabe or enacted artistic identities, no superficial arguments as to priorities or dispositions in regard to motive. These artists' idiosyncracies and eccentricities were not only authentic (as in staged) but genuine. As such it is very much the case that they didn't even bother with considerations of the "outside world" of commercialism.

[Svetonio]

In this thread I'd like to mention Frank Zappa's London Symphony Orchestra, Vol. I the album from 1983, as a worthy 80s avant LP as well.








A beautiful music.

[Poisoned Youth]

Interesting discussion...

In hindsight the early '80s seem really frivolous and irreverent, almost a Roaring '20s vibe; in the States things were good financially and people had more disposable income and time on their hands. I think MTV had a lot to do with it -- content and all that.
<snip>
I was 18 in 1980 and I don't really recall the period with fondness in a sense of feeling like I belonged to something greater than myself. I thought most of it was horrific and self-centered. But great music managed to come thru.

Interesting take. I was 10 in 1980, so the 80s for me were my "coming of age" period. I look back on the 80s with some fondness. It was excessive and fun, full of synths, pop music, early hip-hop, and hair metal. For as cheesy as some of the music was, it had a much more positive, innocent vibe in retrospect than the decade of grunge, disillusion, and angry lyrics to follow.

In regards to Svet's question, I am not sure there was an actual increased enthusiasm as much as an increase in contrast. From my perspective, the contrast of 80s avant-garde music stands out because the 70s vibe had passed, many of the prog rock icons had gone pop, and the majority of 80s music had that "frivolous" vibe Kerry points out. Even the emergence of neo-prog had a distinctly 80s production vibe and ethos.

Beneath all that was this land of "opposite". I agree with Scrot that there is a distinction between avant-prog and avant-rock. The former like Art Zoyd, UZ, Cow, etc. was already well established. So while there were great recordings made in the 80s, I feel the greater contrast to 80s popular music gives the perception that is stands out more if that makes sense.

[Trane]

Well, believe it or not, I imagine MTV and it's after effects had a lot to do with it. MTV had a shown on circa 1983 called IRS Presents The Cutting Edge, which I believe focused on more sort of underground music. I recall they did a segment on Fripp one time. I think being associated with popular (or semi-popular) bands like Talking Heads and U2 probably gave Eno's other activities a boost at the time, too.

Then there's the proliferation of college radio (you tune in for the punk rock show at 4:00pm, but maybe continue listening at 6:00 when the next guy comes in and plays The Residents and Live Skull), as well as record labels who were apparently pumping at least money into avant garde music. If Terry Riley, Phillip Glass, and John Zorn seemed highly visible in the 80's, it might have been because they were all on labels that were putting promotion dollars into making it happen.

I do think that college radios were fairly radical 'at least in evening time)... As for early MTV (or its Canadian equivalent New Music >> forefather of Much Music), there were some coverage of the more arty bands.

it was the drugs

80's drugs were not quite as good as 70's one... especially in terms of marijuana derivates (couldn't trust hash oil anymore and most hash were so hard-pressed there wasn't much resin left to get high to.
Now, of course 80's were more about uppers than about the then-almost-passé grass derivaties (only good for the reggae dudes)

In hindsight the early '80s seem really frivolous and irreverent, almost a Roaring '20s vibe; in the States things were good financially and people had more disposable income and time on their hands. I think MTV had a lot to do with it -- content and all that. So you had bands like Art in America getting video rotation. It was a great musical time in general, likely the energy of punk fused with the songwriting of the '60s (generalizing, thinking of Pretenders and that insanely wonderful debut album) spurred on by the new digital revolution. A zeitgeist thing.

I was 18 in 1980 and I don't really recall the period with fondness in a sense of feeling like I belonged to something greater than myself. I thought most of it was horrific and self-centered.

Yeah, somehow the 80's was a lot more fragmented than previous decades, but also looking in previous decades for inspirations like those revivals (Stray Cats and later the New Romantics movement), but it was because music became a lot more visual... soooo much so that the visuals quickly became more important than the music itself.
And like you, I certainly didn't feel "part of the crowd" in the early 80's (my Uni days) as I did in the 70's (my high school days)

Interesting take. I was 10 in 1980, so the 80s for me were my "coming of age" period. I look back on the 80s with some fondness. It was excessive and fun, full of synths, pop music, early hip-hop, and hair metal. For as cheesy as some of the music was, it had a much more positive, innocent vibe in retrospect than the decade of grunge, disillusion, and angry lyrics to follow.

Beneath all that was this land of "opposite". I agree with Scrot that there is a distinction between avant-prog and avant-rock. The former like Art Zoyd, UZ, Cow, etc. was already well established. So while there were great recordings made in the 80s, I feel the greater contrast to 80s popular music gives the perception that is stands out more if that makes sense.

yeah, I can see how being 10 in 80 would've made that decade particularly fun , but to someone almost 10 years older... mehhh!!!...

I'd say (but no proff whatsoever) that Cabaret Voltaire probably sold more albums in the early 80's (due to theur exposure) than Henry Cow, Art Bears, News FBabel did all together, though...

[Svetonio]

From Liquid and Stellar Music / This Same Temple the album by Paul Dresher, released in 1981

[Svetonio]

At the time I remember playing two new records for some punk/new wave loving friends, "My Life in the Bush of Ghosts" and "Boy" ( U2) .
They loved Boy and were totally mystified by the Eno/Byrne record. They loved Talking Heads, Clash, Ramones, etc.
The Talking Heads "Remain in Light " was still pretty new and was a departure from '77 and MSABAF, there were more similarities with "Fear of Music" which did have Eno all over it.

Eno and Byrne were leveraging older Musique concrète with new technologies. A stunning album, still one of my favorites.
It was clean and sharp. Compared to noise bands that were still doing cut and splice with tape to generate their sounds along with raw synth it was Pretty and shiny.
But, still jarring to those who wanted "Great beat, easy to dance to, I give it a 10" new wave fans.

Exactly due to that reason, I think that My Life in The Bush of Ghosts was THE album which intrigued many to discover more of experimental and ambient music released in the first half of the 80s, and also aroused a new interest for some albums from the 70s, as for example Eno's Another Green World was rediscovered as well.

[Svetonio]

Interesting discussion...



Interesting take. I was 10 in 1980, so the 80s for me were my "coming of age" period. I look back on the 80s with some fondness. It was excessive and fun, full of synths, pop music, early hip-hop, and hair metal. For as cheesy as some of the music was, it had a much more positive, innocent vibe in retrospect than the decade of grunge, disillusion, and angry lyrics to follow.

In regards to Svet's question, I am not sure there was an actual increased enthusiasm as much as an increase in contrast. From my perspective, the contrast of 80s avant-garde music stands out because the 70s vibe had passed, many of the prog rock icons had gone pop, and the majority of 80s music had that "frivolous" vibe Kerry points out. Even the emergence of neo-prog had a distinctly 80s production vibe and ethos.

Beneath all that was this land of "opposite". I agree with Scrot that there is a distinction between avant-prog and avant-rock. The former like Art Zoyd, UZ, Cow, etc. was already well established. So while there were great recordings made in the 80s, I feel the greater contrast to 80s popular music gives the perception that is stands out more if that makes sense.

Just for your information, in the 70s, Henry Cow - like all other such acts with the strong influences of the Avantgarde and despite of their stylistic differences - were tagged in the British rock press as "experimental rock" (or "avant-rock"); of course, it was presumed as a genre of progressive music.
Tag "progressive rock" was reserved for the bands like Family and King Crimson.

[Vonta Jitty]

In the words of someone or other, not so much Avant garde, more like Haven't practiced