The Damn I'm Old Thread - Putting Up With Being a Geezer

[Rarebird]

The Francis Scott Key bridge was hit by a cargo ship early this morning and has collapsed.

https://www.aol.com/francis-scott-ke...070830939.html

I saw it on the news. A terrible accident. Glad it didn't happen during rush-hour.

[Shadow]

I saw it on the news. A terrible accident. Glad it didn't happen during rush-hour.

I've crossed it many times. They seem to think the ship had either a fire or electrical problem where they lost the ability to steer the ship.

[Rarebird]

I've crossed it many times. They seem to think the ship had either a fire or electrical problem where they lost the ability to steer the ship.

Haven't read anything about the cause yet. But well I live in The Netherlands, so...

Just read the the people on the ship somehow lost control of the ship.

[Vic2012]

Just saw the video. Good grief. Speechless.

[markwoll]

[Rarebird]

Just saw the video. Good grief. Speechless.

Saw the video as well, almost like a house of cards. Terrible.

There was even a mention on the website of the regional news-site of Rotterdam, with the question if it could happen there. Answer: No, because ships that big stay outside the area with bridges.

[Duncan Glenday]

Yep - I've been watching it on the news since 4:00am. I've crossed that bridge before.

This is a MAJOR incident. Probably many lives lost. Tragedy.

In addition - there will be monster traffic snarl-ups. Whatever ships are in the B'more harbor right now will probably be stuck there for a few weeks, and no new ships will be able to get in.

[Duncan Glenday]

Makes me wonder why they didn't erect bollards to protect the bridge's stanchions!

Oh, wait - it would cost a lot more . Silly me.

That should be standard practice on ALL bridges that could be impacted by ships. There was a similar (but far smaller) incident in the deep south a few years ago. (Louisiana?)

[SteveSly]

Yep - I've been watching it on the news since 4:00am. I've crossed that bridge before.

This is a MAJOR incident. Probably many lives lost. Tragedy.

In addition - there will be monster traffic snarl-ups. Whatever ships are in the B'more harbor right now will probably be stuck there for a few weeks, and no new ships will be able to get in.

Apparently the ship knew it had a problem and had alerted someone on land who was able to close the bridge down to traffic. Everyone who lost their lives were construction workers working on the bridge. Whoever managed to close the traffic down to the bridge saved a lot of lives.

[ronmac]

Totally fucked up situation. It could have been so much worse.

I saw video of the ship going dark, which appears to confirm the power loss. It's odd that construction workers stayed on the bridge.

"The last thing we need is regulation to prevent this," said nobody rational.

[Garyhead]

I sailed those ships for 25 years. As a Chief Engineer, I knew it all was on my shoulders. “That’s why you get paid the big bucks!” That was a switchboard problem….for a complete blackout. Looks like the Emergency Generator never kicked in….it would have come on faster than that….the Steering gear would still be functioning. The black smoke is most likely the engine firing up again. This Main Engine is a MAN 9S90ME … making it an electronically controlled engine. Power loss rendered that engine useless. On the ship I sailed on…..no electronics so no electricity needed. It used pneumatic logic controllers so there was always plenty of air to control the engine. I think you will see in the future NTSB report that dropping the anchor might have caused the vessel to swerve. Also, if they tried to reverse the engine after the restoration of the first power cut, the propellor would have been in backwash thus just spinning and doing no work. The radio call from the ship to the Key Bridge saved countless lives…..they stopped traffic in time….only 6 of the 8-man repair crew are missing. Those crew were screwed….they needed to be traveling the 60mph to get away fast enough.

[markwoll]

In a port like Baltimore would a ship that size ever be that close to a structure? They don't sail under it, or do they?

[NogbadTheBad]

Their route was under the bridge

[moecurlythanu]

I sailed those ships for 25 years. As a Chief Engineer, I knew it all was on my shoulders. “That’s why you get paid the big bucks!” That was a switchboard problem….for a complete blackout. Looks like the Emergency Generator never kicked in….it would have come on faster than that….the Steering gear would still be functioning. The black smoke is most likely the engine firing up again. This Main Engine is a MAN 9S90ME … making it an electronically controlled engine. Power loss rendered that engine useless. On the ship I sailed on…..no electronics so no electricity needed. It used pneumatic logic controllers so there was always plenty of air to control the engine. I think you will see in the future NTSB report that dropping the anchor might have caused the vessel to swerve. Also, if they tried to reverse the engine after the restoration of the first power cut, the propellor would have been in backwash thus just spinning and doing no work. The radio call from the ship to the Key Bridge saved countless lives…..they stopped traffic in time….only 6 of the 8-man repair crew are missing. Those crew were screwed….they needed to be traveling the 60mph to get away fast enough.

Thank you for that. Always good to hear the voice of experience Gary.

[NogbadTheBad]

I sailed those ships for 25 years. As a Chief Engineer, I knew it all was on my shoulders. “That’s why you get paid the big bucks!” That was a switchboard problem….for a complete blackout. Looks like the Emergency Generator never kicked in….it would have come on faster than that….the Steering gear would still be functioning. The black smoke is most likely the engine firing up again. This Main Engine is a MAN 9S90ME … making it an electronically controlled engine. Power loss rendered that engine useless. On the ship I sailed on…..no electronics so no electricity needed. It used pneumatic logic controllers so there was always plenty of air to control the engine. I think you will see in the future NTSB report that dropping the anchor might have caused the vessel to swerve. Also, if they tried to reverse the engine after the restoration of the first power cut, the propellor would have been in backwash thus just spinning and doing no work. The radio call from the ship to the Key Bridge saved countless lives…..they stopped traffic in time….only 6 of the 8-man repair crew are missing. Those crew were screwed….they needed to be traveling the 60mph to get away fast enough.

Reports are saying they were traveling at excessive speed, any thoughts on that?

[happytheman]

Makes me wonder why they didn't erect bollards to protect the bridge's stanchions!

Oh, wait - it would cost a lot more . Silly me.

That should be standard practice on ALL bridges that could be impacted by ships. There was a similar (but far smaller) incident in the deep south a few years ago. (Louisiana?)

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/sciencet...ey-Bridge.html

[ronmac]

^^ The Daily Mail? Do you have a legitimate new source?

[Garyhead]

Reports are saying they were traveling at excessive speed, any thoughts on that?

No...it was not excessive speed....below 5 knots, the rudder becomes useless....not enough water passing over it to control steerage. Also, speed is determined to allow the water-passing-over-the rudder but not so excessive to create a damaging wake. There is now a youtube video showing the vessel within the shipping lanes. Radar shows the shipping channels.....it looks just like a road map. The ship left the channel shortly before impact. That's why I think the Anchor is the culprit....you cannot stop a ship with an anchor....you'll just drag it on the bottom. It Will cause the ship to change direction tho.....Dropping the anchor in a power failure is established procedure for emergencies. Perhaps if they dropped the Starboard Anchor instead of the Port Anchor, the vessel would have swerved the other direction and we wouldn't be discussing this today. The NTSB report will look at all aspects.

[SteveSly]

I sailed those ships for 25 years. As a Chief Engineer, I knew it all was on my shoulders. “That’s why you get paid the big bucks!” That was a switchboard problem….for a complete blackout. Looks like the Emergency Generator never kicked in….it would have come on faster than that….the Steering gear would still be functioning. The black smoke is most likely the engine firing up again. This Main Engine is a MAN 9S90ME … making it an electronically controlled engine. Power loss rendered that engine useless. On the ship I sailed on…..no electronics so no electricity needed. It used pneumatic logic controllers so there was always plenty of air to control the engine. I think you will see in the future NTSB report that dropping the anchor might have caused the vessel to swerve. Also, if they tried to reverse the engine after the restoration of the first power cut, the propellor would have been in backwash thus just spinning and doing no work. The radio call from the ship to the Key Bridge saved countless lives…..they stopped traffic in time….only 6 of the 8-man repair crew are missing. Those crew were screwed….they needed to be traveling the 60mph to get away fast enough.

Great insight. Thanks for posting.

[Garyhead]

Makes me wonder why they didn't erect bollards to protect the bridge's stanchions!

Oh, wait - it would cost a lot more . Silly me.

That should be standard practice on ALL bridges that could be impacted by ships. There was a similar (but far smaller) incident in the deep south a few years ago. (Louisiana?)

That may be true, but 1000's of ships have successfully navigated under that bridge for 47 Years! They are saying now in the news that a direct hit to a bridge stanchion would take out almost any bridge with ships the size they are today. In the past All ships were restricted in width so as to pass through the Panama Canal. Beginning in the mid 90's....some companies started making wider hulls to carry more cargo....they are called PanaMax ships. This also meant Ports had to install bigger cranes to load / offload cargo. The ship I was on was the same length as this one but this one is much wider....more tons in motion.

[Shadow]

That may be true, but 1000's of ships have successfully navigated under that bridge for 47 Years! They are saying now in the news that a direct hit to a bridge stanchion would take out almost any bridge with ships the size they are today. In the past All ships were restricted in width so as to pass through the Panama Canal. Beginning in the mid 90's....some companies started making wider hulls to carry more cargo....they are called PanaMax ships. This also meant Ports had to install bigger cranes to load / offload cargo. The ship I was on was the same length as this one but this one is much wider....more tons in motion.

Maybe they will start having tugs navigate the ships out to the bay, or at least pass the bridges.

[Jerjo]

I would imagine that one of the biggest priorities is to clear away enough debris to get at least one channel open. You can't leave a port that size locked up for months while they move all the debris out.

[ronmac]

That may be true, but 1000's of ships have successfully navigated under that bridge for 47 Years! They are saying now in the news that a direct hit to a bridge stanchion would take out almost any bridge with ships the size they are today. In the past All ships were restricted in width so as to pass through the Panama Canal. Beginning in the mid 90's....some companies started making wider hulls to carry more cargo....they are called PanaMax ships. This also meant Ports had to install bigger cranes to load / offload cargo. The ship I was on was the same length as this one but this one is much wider....more tons in motion.

Yep, that thing was more than three football fields long and like a 170,000 tons.

[ronmac]

Had a suprise last year when I went to start repaying on my student loan after the covid restrictions and it was gone.

you're welcome

[Shadow]

you're welcome

Your money went to pay Stormy.