Burp......
Burp......
My NADs need increasing[emoji6] sorry bad joke. I've read about this, Nicotinamide mononucleotide (NMN) is a naturally occurring compound in the body that plays a vital role in how cells use energy. It is involved in the synthesis of NAD.Originally Posted by yamishogun
OK, listen up.
What all of you want to take is Elysium Basis at $1.50 a day.NR is a derivative of vitamin B3 and a blueberry extract. Six Nobel laureates are on the science committee. Maybe you should wait until results are posted and published early next year.
What NR does is increase your NAD+ that we all have in every cell. But it depletes from age 40 or so. You want to take this. Now.
But ya'll on this thread are soooo much smarter than six Noble laureates right?
https://www.decodedscience.org/nmn-n...e-in-mice/3616
I'm really serious guys. This is not a joke. If you don't believe, that is cool since I'm a die hard skeptic in general but another human trial result is coming in a few months.
I take it at 47 and like it but I understand if those want to wait for human evidence. (mice do great!)
A trial of 120 people, half who received a placebo should be out in winter or spring at the latest.
The good news is that it doesn't matter. You will still benefit from advancing science that you blew off getting your PhDs in music theory.
NMN is basically NR, but it looks like NR is more direct. NR is around a $1 a day but NMN is more like $50 until they figure out how to make it cheaper - and they will.
Last edited by yamishogun; 12-03-2016 at 10:08 PM.
Thanks for the info.The good news is that it doesn't matter. You will still benefit from advancing science that you blew off getting your PhDs in music theory.
NMN is basically NR, but it looks like NR is more direct. NR is around a $1 a day but NMN is more like $50 until they figure out how to make it cheaper - and they will.
I'm intrigued, but don't understand all your acronyms.OK, listen up.
What all of you want to take is Elysium Basis at $1.50 a day.NR is a derivative of vitamin B3 and a blueberry extract. Six Nobel laureates are on the science committee. Maybe you should wait until results are posted and published early next year.
What NR does is increase your NAD+ that we all have in every cell. But it depletes from age 40 or so. You want to take this. Now. This a supplement so you can buy NR (vitamin B3 derivative) and ptersotilbine (blueberry compund) separately but so far the cost seems about the same. (I don't buy Elysium but the savings is small.)
But ya'll on this thread are soooo much smarter than six Noble laureates right?
Just trying to help. I take it, and I like it.
Could you 'splain it in a way that is easier to understand?
(Meanwhile, I'll Google it...)
Regards,
Duncan
Is that the new Centrum Sylvan?
Regards,
Duncan
^Good one.
I've been following this type of thing since around 2003. Here is more information as a starting point for those who are curious as well as a quick guide.
In 2006, David Sinclair of Harvard, now 46, made a splash when the NY Times picked up his study published in nature that showed obese rats taking resveratrol lived longer than obese rats without taking the compound found in trace amounts in red wine. He then told a "life extension" organization that he took 300 mg of resveratrol a day based on a scale up of his rat study. Last year, he told the Washington Post that he takes 1,000 mg of resveratrol a day at breakfast (you can google the interview "This scientist is working on anti-aging pill - and is taking it himself")
His adviser at M.I,T., 64 year old Leonard Guarente, formed Elysium, which sells Basis. That is 50 mg of pterostilbine (found in blueberries) and 250 mg of NR or Nicotinamide Riboside, which is a form of Vitamin B3 found in trace amounts in milk and bananas. NR is a cousin of NMN that David Sinclair injected in large amounts in rats in 2013 and saw their muscles go from the human equivalent if a 60 year old to a 30 year old. (Don't try this at home...) NMN is currently very expensive so NR can be taken to boost NAD+ levels in all cells, although don't think it has the dramatic effect on muscle aging reversal as NMN injected into mice.
NAD+, as explained by Guarente, is needed in cells to make parts of the cell communicate better with the mitochondria, the energy center(s) of the cell.
Guarente also thinks that the blueberry compound pterostilbine may have a synergistic effect with NR so is sold together but can be bought separately from other vendors so maybe cheaper than Elysium, maybe not. All of what I've mentioned have passed safety tests.
Guarente thinks this type of thing (NR, pterostilbine and resveratrol) is being worked on by pharmaceuticals to form synthetic versions that may be stronger but doesn't want to wait so has been taking them since 2014:
Basis (250 mg of NR and 50 mg of pterostilbine) in the morning along with 250 mg of resveratrol, 2500 IU of Vitamin D and a baby aspirin at 81 mg.
Elysium completed a trial this summer of 120 healthy people aged 60 to 79 where half received Basis (NR and pterostilbine) and half received a placebo. The company claimed last year it will put all results no matter what they are on their web page but not sure when that will happen.
I think you want to be at least 40 for these to have an effect. My friend, 47, took Basis and after a few weeks saw that she went from 120 lbs to 110 lbs without feeling hungry. She was happy since when she tried to get down from 120 lbs to 110 lbs a few years earlier, she found it extremely difficult and was hungry. I'm not sure it would change everyone's weight if overweight but can see it could based on what I know of the science - just the very basics.
Others have reported: better sleep, more energy/alertness in the day, fading aging spots, better night vision and clearer thinking. That last one is pretty vague...
Six Nobel laureates of medicine and biology are on Elysium's science advisory board but Chromodex is the monopoly supplier of NR so can be bought separately from other vendors.
Guarante is a highly respected scientist but that doesnt mean he is right about NR and pterostilbine but he said last year: "Extrapolating from animal studies, I think BASIS (NR and pterostilbine) holds great promise."
Why not 4000 iu of Vitamin D? If there's one Vitamin that is non-toxic and shown to have serious health benefits, that's it. Most people don't even know they are deficient. And you really need more than MDR to have optimal health. It's not something you store in your fat in the summer and use up in the winter, unless you truly hibernate and convert your fat to calories. In fact obese people are deficient usually because fat sequesters it. Older people need more too.
Well, I just put down what Gurante said he is taking. I take 4000 UI of Vitamin D. I currently take 500 mg of resveratrol and 125 mg of NR with no pterostilbine but will add that soon. Ill also probably go up to 250 mg of NR but would like to see what studies say first.
To add a bit more, according to a scientist who researches NR at the U of Iowa, about 200,000 people take NR and most are probably taking 250 mg a day. One study by Chromodex showed that 100 mg of NR increased NAD+ levels in the blood by 30%, 300 mg by 50% but 1000 mg also about 50%. So those who take just 125 mg of NR are likely seeing some effect, and it isn't clear going over 300 mg gives more benefit. Some say they prefer 125 mg over 250 mg and I've read a couple who say they 'need' 375 mg or 500 mg. I've just taken 125 mg so haven't compared.
The price of NR more than doubled after Sinclair's mouse study showed great results with NMN in 2013, and he may be trying to patent a method to mass produce that at a much lower, affordable price that could also compete against NR. NR is just a form of Vitamin B3 so itself cant be patented but they could patent the manufacturing process.
I think we should know much more about all of this within a few weeks.
Last edited by yamishogun; 12-04-2016 at 04:05 PM.
I may be opening up Pandora’s Box here, but regarding NR, I am always skeptical of these type of products. Admittedly I work for big Pharma as a production supervisor, and my wife has worked as a research biologist in human health for many years (she now works in animal health research), so we are all about the science behind these type of claims. All of the supplement companies operate outside of same guidelines that the FDA requires for pharmaceuticals. That does not mean that all of their products are worthless, but a good chunk of them have no scientific basis in effectiveness (if they did the pharma companies would have made them years ago). An actual “drug” takes years to come to fruition and requires many phases of testing and clinical trials in order to be brought to market. “Supplements” do not require much of anything in regards to actual scientific data. Getting back to NR, from what I have read there does seem to be some promise with this substance, but there still appears to be a long way to go until we have scientific proof of it’s effectiveness. Here is a pretty good article on it that I think gives a fairly balanced evaluation: https://www.technologyreview.com/s/5...ti-aging-pill/
Elysium wrapped up their Basis (NR along with pterostilbine) study in July. They chose 120 healthy people aged 60 to 80 and divided them into three groups: 250 mg of NR, 500 mg of NR and a placebo group. They collected data on the following:
* blood pressure
* lipid profile
* serum glucose
* body weight change
* 6 minute walk
* chair standing test
* pain tolerance
* physiological profile
* quality of sleep and quality of life questionnaire
They have known the results for 4 months so no longer a long way to go for controlled human study evidence, just a matter of a few weeks or months. There are also NR trials at the U of Minnesota for concussions, the U. of Washington for heart failure and more at the U. of Iowa, Colorado U and U. of Copenhagen that are in process or have been completed.
One issue is that a supplement like NR and other compounds has the potential to make some popular pharmaceuticals unnecessary and at a much lower price. Those companies are already developing their versions as drugs, which will presumably be more potent yet would again compete against some drugs whose patents haven't run out yet.
2017 should be a very interesting year to see how this develops.
Here is another article on Basis from New York Magazine. Again, when it comes to suppliments I am always skeptical, but maybe there is something there. You be the judge: http://nymag.com/scienceofus/2016/08...-of-youth.html
Nothing is free of hazards - you can even die from drinking too much water (has happened to marathon runners, their salt balance was diluted too much)
D vitamin hazards:
Tim Spector leader of British Gut microbiome project and author of 'The Diet Myth':
The sun goes down on Vitamin D: why I changed my mind about this celebrated supplement
https://theconversation.com/the-sun-...pplement-52725
February 2016 -Vitamin D Supplementation and Increased Risk of Falling A Cautionary Tale of Vitamin Supplements Retold
http://jamanetwork.com/journals/jama...stract/2478893
My wife told me to eat supplementary zink (she read somewhere that is was good), which I did, untill I discovered that my prostate grew because of this!
I thought I had a prostate problem, was checked, scanned etc., and they found nothing, but I still had problems peeing. It dissappeared when I stopped eating the zink pills. This phenomenon is actually known (could find the scientific article in 10 minutes, later perhaps...).
Too much zink intake is linked to prostate cancer http://www.webmd.com/prostate-cancer...rostate-cancer
But its complicated, since zink also is said to prevent prostate cancer.
http://www.lifeextension.com/magazin...th/page-01?p=1
I think the lesson is: Dont overdo anything that has to do with your health.
Eat healthy, not too much of anything, especially meat, fat and sugar, lots of fruit and vegetables, and thus you will most probably get all the vitamins you need - and save a lot of money !
That article on Vitamin D is typical poo poo. A lot of words which are out of context. I don't have the time to recall the controlled studies which have demonstrated its benefits. I do know that a person can receive 10000 iu from the sun in about 30 minutes and if it was bad, there would be a shitload of folks affected if they lived in the south year round. There is a non healthy level, but no supplement I've seen on the shelves goes above 5000 iu and a recommendation of one a day. I know that there is an established healthy range for serum level which I have had checked while taking 5000 iu. I know that most insurance won't pay for D checking, and statistics show when checked 90 per cent in North America are deficient. I also know that one would have to eat salmon 4 times a day to get 2000 iu a day. This is bull shit about getting vitamins from diet as applied to D. I agree that there huge benefits from getting E and A from diet. And C supplementation needs to be limited and combined with a specific diet. But D is a no brainer, those who poo pop it perhaps have other motives. Maybe they are afraid that their jobs are at risk if people were healthier without their help. I'm all for science as applied to the quality and purity of supplements, and the government, and industry is lazy as far as putting effort towards at least having standards for production.
BTW because of all of complex factors, there are no guarantees of any benefits of a supplement of D will be observed because there so many genetic and environmental factors. There are some pretty clear issues with deficiency. However, no guarantee is not reason for me to take the risk of not supplementing. I don't get sun because of skin cancer I've had, and sun isn't there year round. I don't eat wild salmon often (farmed salmon is low in D, but high in omega 3).
I have been a long-time supplement skeptic. The exception is for Vitamin D and the studies that began to accumulate around 2004 that showed a strong connection between Vitamin D levels and the risk of getting cancer for people living in northern latitudes. But this summer a study showed that people with congestive heart failure with an ejection fraction on average of 26% went to a 34% after taking Vitamin D for a year along with their medications. That lifted them, as a group, from a more dangerous level of heart failure to a less dangerous level where normal is 50% to 70%.
From BBC News in April:
"It's quite a big deal, that's as big as you'd expect from other more expensive treatments that we use, it's a stunning effect.
"It's as cheap as chips, has no side effects and a stunning improvement on people already on optimal medical therapy, it is the first time anyone has shown something like this in the last 15 years."
There are issues with this article.
* The author says Elysium Basis, NR with pterostilbine, didn't make him feel better, just different. Yet we do not know how old the author is. I've read a lot on NR and Basis what jumps out is what those over 60 have to say versus those under 30. If you already have NAD+ levels that haven't begun to decrease from around 40 then you probably wouldn't feel much or anything different.
* The skeptic S. Jay Olshansky is quoted as he usually is in any article on anti-aging pills but the articles, including this one, almost never reveal that he has a Ph.D. in sociology and is not a scientist.
* The article states: "When GSK shut down the biotech’s Cambridge offices a few years after buying it, laying off a number of employees and folding what remained into the larger corporation, many scientists in the field pounced. They included Guarente-lab alumni like Kennedy and Kaeberlein." This is not at all correct. Both anti-aging researchers had been resveratrol skeptics and often quoted in the press going back to 2006. In a 2009 interview, however, Kennedy said, "The media likes to call me as the guy who is against David Sinclair and resveratrol, but I'm really not. I'm just agnostic." (A close paraphrase)
* The author said that Sinclair's injection of NMN in mice made older muscles look younger but didn't improve strength. I've never read this. This is from this past summer, although this time another research team gave NR orally to mice through food:
"Which is why the researchers wanted to “revitalize” stem cells in the muscles of elderly mice. And they did so by precisely targeting the molecules that help the mitochondria to function properly. “We gave nicotinamide riboside to 2-year-old mice, which is an advanced age for them,” said Zhang.
“This substance, which is close to vitamin B3, is a precursor of NAD+, a molecule that plays a key role in mitochondrial activity. And our results are extremely promising: muscular regeneration is much better in mice that received NR, and they lived longer than the mice that didn’t get it.”
* Not an error but here is a comment from an 85 year old man who had been taking Elysium Basis for two months:
OldAxe Aug 26, 2016
I have been taking Elysium for two months. Not much to report but with no change of diet nor eating habits I have lost eight pounds. Blood pressure this morning 132-76 Thats down a little. I am sleeping better lately. I was getting up to go three or more times a night. Now sometimes sleep all night. sometimes have to go once. I have no pain, no aches, no prescriptions. I am 6.0' 175 Lb If I make it to Oct. 5, 2016 I'll be 85. Feeling good, Jake (J C)
Anyway, it won't be that long before we know much more about how NR affects those between the ages of 60 and 80.
Curious do you know when the results of the study you have mentioned are coming out? If I read correctly it has already been completed?
Nope. The 8 week trial was completed in late July according to what is online. One thing I heard months ago is that Elysium might release the results around the same time the U of Copenhagen or the U of Iowa or the U of Colorado release studies. More likely is that they are waiting for publication in a peer reviewed journal and that could take up to a year or even longer, but I think they will release information within weeks.
Last edited by yamishogun; 12-06-2016 at 11:41 AM.
I am 60 and still playing in bands for a living. I am a composer and at the moment I'm still working on a Chamber Rock cd ...but have confused feelings if maybe I should rearrange the pieces a bit to make it a Chamber Symphony instead. No one believes I am 60 and I am often told that I look 40. Although aging process is sometimes a big drama psychosis for people ...I have the opposite scenario where a lot of women flirt with me and I find myself telling them..."Pardon me but I'm old enough to be your father" You see...I was introduced to a kind of monastic way of life in my youth and have certain morals. Which explains why I never did hard drugs when I traveled the road nor did I indulge in sexual promiscuity...but!...that's just me. My position is a bit moronic in the fact that I have to create barriers with people around me...but I am in the music business so therefore its quite what I expected.
I'm an asshole because I jabberbox with the keyboard bravery on P.E. ..but at a Prog concert I clam up and feel too shy to converse. I don't know wth that is but I've always been that way. I like quiet conversations in secluded places. As a 60 year old I still strongly believe in the existence of supernatural forces which channel through me during a performance. Sometimes I will be on stage surrounded by people eye balling my playing. I am a decent guitarist not a great one. I merely have reflections of Pat Metheny and John McLaughlin in my playing. I have a Classical background since childhood...but sometimes at a gig..I want to play like Paul Kossoff and Ritchie Blackmore. This explains why other Classical students disregarded me as being a loser and completely laughable. I have a natural gift for Classical guitar and they just busted my balls to no end...in point they thought I was wasting my time.
Some nights I drive to the gig listening to Popol Vuh and when I arrive ....I would assume my mind set would change ..but it hasn't because I will transcend to a different realm even if it has to be in a Zeppelin song. At gigs people tend to ask me lots of questions about my life. They often mention bands they like and as they speak I'm remembering that I opened for some of their favorite Rock bands when I was a teenager....but I do not reveal this because I need to sit in my van and listen to the soundtrack to "A Simple Plan"...so I don't want to get deep with anyone. Then someone will walk up and begin talking about how they saw me play in their youth....opening for a Rock Star or something like that. The loneliness of a past memory takes hold on me at that moment....because it is another lifetime and that particular ghostly separation from my life is hauntingly sad. I feel like I'm in a sling and want to escape from these people.
I am very sweet to them. I am thankful...but try to figure out an excuse to get away as they talk endlessly to me. I am 60 and sleep between 3 to 4 hrs a night. I am very hyperactive. I am pretty much of a misfit in life and have developed self indulgent ways over time. When I was 16 I was walking through the devil worship woods in Vineland...??? and I saw a girl being raped. A huge guy was ripping off her clothes and she was screaming for me to help her. I grabbed a 2/4 board from a stack of rotted wood on the ground and hit him on the back . As he rolled over...I screamed for her to run. Thirty years later I'm playing in this huge venue and up walks the owner's wife. She thanked me for saving her...we hugged and it was a tearful scene. I felt like the character of Richard Dryfess in Stand By Me looking back on his youth through a novel. 60 is haunting.
That is one of the most heartfelt, honest posts I have ever seen here, Enid.
I can relate somewhat to the "how old are you?" shock of many people when I tell them I'm almost 72. While I don't play in bands anymore & haven't for many years, I've never stopped singing rock n' roll with friend's bands and even karaoke on occasion, and when I can't anymore, if I'm still alive, I'll just transition to Sinatra & Bennett
Where our paths diverge is in our view of morality and hedonism, and that's fine.
"My choice early in life was either to be a piano player in a whorehouse or a politician, and to tell the truth, there's hardly any difference"
President Harry S. Truman
Wow! Thanks for the supportThat is one of the most heartfelt, honest posts I have ever seen here, Enid.
I can relate somewhat to the "how old are you?" shock of many people when I tell them I'm almost 72. While I don't play in bands anymore & haven't for many years, I've never stopped singing rock n' roll with friend's bands and even karaoke on occasion, and when I can't anymore, if I'm still alive, I'll just transition to Sinatra & Bennett
Where our paths diverge is in our view of morality and hedonism, and that's fine.
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