What is "Corporate Rock"?

[GuitarGeek]

Well, as far as *I* know, AOR stands for "Album Oriented Rock", meaning they weren't writing for the hit single. And to lump Kansas in with the corporate rock tag? Ludicrous, at least until after "Monolith". The funniest thing about them is their backing by Don Kirshner, MISTER Corporate Rock. I never did get that, although I'm not complaining, since it brought me Kansas.

Kirshner obviously thought he could make money off them (and he did eventually), otherwise he wouldn't have ripped them off the way he did. Of course, the other option is he wouldn't have signed them at all, and they would have ended up, at best, getting ripped off (probably) by someone else.

[GuitarGeek]

Not so much 'cribbed' but Perry's phrasing is presumably inspired by Sam Cooke's on 'Nothing Can Change This Love'.

I'll have to listen to it again, but I could swear there was one with a very similar, if not identical, vocal melody. But maybe it's the phrasing I'm thinking of, not so much the actual notes.

[StevegSr]

Steve, the popular connotation of the term "corporate rock" as I recall from the late 70s concerned a specific genre of slickly-produced arena rock or AOR, and the bands usually named included Foreigner, Styx, Journey, Boston, REO Speedwagon, Survivor, Toto, Starship, later Bad Company and post-Dio Rainbow.

In fact, I think they all had exactly the same singer in studio using aliases.

By all means look up "corporate rock" on the world wide web. In nearly every case the definition is the same.

Greg, you kill me. But let's forget the infallible WWW for the moment and ponder this. I understand that "corporate rock" is construed by most people to mean AOR which can be construed to mean Album Oriented Rock, or Adult Oriented Rock, and as you stated, Arena Rock for short. All vague terms that describe a rock music genre which has been variable lover time.

But MOR or Middle of The Road, which includes our favorites from Burt Bacharach, BJ Thomas, Glen Campbell to Barry Manilow , can also be considered "corporate rock." See the rub?

And I agree that Styx, Journey et al, all used the same songwriters, recording studios, engineers, producers and singers. Just like the Monkeys. Well, at least the Monkeys did actually sing their songs.

And if the Monkeys and The Archies of Sugar Sugar fame or infamy, (which were a faux group that actually did the musical backing for the Monkeys) were not the first to be "corporate rock", Then who was? Pat Boone?

Hmm...sanitized black music reconfigured for a white audience, I wonder...

[Halmyre]

but while the nobles' Code of Honour required that one promptly pay all gambling debts to other wealthy noblemen, stiffing tradesmen who actually needed the money to live upon was almost seen as admirably rakish and clever.

Not a lot has changed.

[GuitarGeek]

And I agree that Styx, Journey et al, all used the same songwriters, recording studios, engineers, producers and singers.

Which songs by Styx and Journey were written by the same people?

And if the Monkeys and The Archies of Sugar Sugar fame or infamy, (which were a faux group that actually did the musical backing for the Monkeys)

One more time: The Wrecking Crew backed damn near everyone who recorded in LA during the 60's. They played on The Byrds' first single, they played on all those Beach Boys records everyone loves, they backed Frank Sinatra, Dean Martin, they deputized for The Association and Gary Lewis And The Playboys, and so on.

The idea that The Monkees were somehow different or less than because they used studio musicians is complete bullshit (or dren, to use an old Sebacian word).

And the name of the band is spelled Monkees!

[Firth]

What I remember about the term 'corporate rock' is in the mid- to late-70s, when the Beatles were gone, Hendrix was dead, all the mad innovation of 1967-1974 was coming out of fashion, and several rock bands (the ones everybody's mentioned) were taking over the formerly AOR airwaves with their radio-friendly hit singles. They played sports arenas, they played their hits verbatim, they all sounded very similar (and seemingly had the same singer). These bands were labeled 'corporate rock.' I don't know if they were all produced by David Foster, but they certainly seemed like cookie cutter bands playing variations of the same song over and over -- a simple riff, followed by a chorus repeating the song title about twenty times. It was music designed to be chanted by 30,000 people in a stadium waving lighters.

Our beloved quirky progressive rock was buried under the onslaught.

And shortly, the excesses of corporate rock would be swept away by faster, cheaper music produced by non-musicians under the rubric of punk and disco. Those proved that you didn't actually NEED musicians to sell records, which pleased the suits no end.

Wrong, corporations which had the say on what was produced made more profit from cheap talent.

[nycsteve]

Phil Collins killed corporate rock.

[Firth]

Phil Collins killed corporate rock.

No PC is worst example of how the greed of the 80s transformed many artists into whores.

[Progbear]

"AOR" - in North America, anyway - means "album oriented rock" and pertains to an FM radio format that began in the 1970s, not a genre of music. AOR was the radio format precursor to the "classic rock" format, which became popular in the late 1980s.

I wonder if this might be a regional thing, like how “soft rock” means something different in the UK. Here it’s usually used to describe MOR artists like John Denver or Captain & Tennille that no sane person should consider “rock,” making the term fairly inaccurate, though it’s stuck.

No PC is worst example of how the greed of the 80s transformed many artists into whores.

I’d say Starship were worse, but this is a prog board, so obviously we must demonize Phil at all costs.

[Dave (in MA)]

And the name of the band is spelled Monkees!

Who were the Monkers who were doing the Monking to them, and how Monked were they?

[Baribrotzer]

No PC is worst example of how the greed of the 80s transformed many artists into whores.

I would not say that. From everything I've heard, he liked quite a few different genres of music, including both prog and R&B. So after spending some ten years playing mostly prog, it doesn't surprise me that he might have wanted to do something else for his first solo record. The surprise - to both him and the rest of Genesis - was that Face Value caught on the way it did. Can you really blame him, then, for running with it? I can't. No, I don't have much interest in Phil's solo career, or in post-W+W Genesis in general, but I'm not going to say they're crap just because I personally find them disappointing after the heights of Selling England....

[Halmyre]

Phil Collins killed corporate rock.

It's *ruined*, he *ruined* corporate rock. Ruination is PC's thing, donchaknow.

[Sturgeon's Lawyer]

Journey is almost as bad as the Eagles. Styx at least had a few good songs. (Actually, so did Journey, on their first album...)

[Dave (in MA)]

It's *ruined*, he *ruined* corporate rock. Ruination is PC's thing, donchaknow.

If he did a prog album after all this time that PE-ers really liked, would that mean that he ruined ruination?

[Facelift]

If he did a prog album after all this time that PE-ers really liked, would that mean that he ruined ruination?

Since there is nothing he's not capable of ruining - yes.

[-=RTFR666=-]

Some here have made their minds up, alas. They won't let the facts get in the way.

...as the OP thereby satisfies his agenda...

[StevegSr]

Which songs by Styx and Journey were written by the same people?






And the name of the band is spelled Monkees!

OMG! Are we really having this conversation?



sar·casm.


[ˈsärˌkazəm]


NOUN


1.
the use of irony to mock or convey contempt:


That was an explanation of sarcasm which Dark Elf and I have fun using. So, my meaning is not Literal. Ok?

And I'm well versed with the Wreaking Crew and know all members from Hal Blaine to Carol Kaye, but what's your point? That these great session musicians were incapable of doing sessions for schlock producer Don Kirshner's Monkees? (I spelled it correctly as I know you're a big fan and I don't want to keep insulting you by calling these hacks the "Monkeys")

Again, what's your point? Professionals recording corporate rock? Makes a lot more sense than using amateurs, doesn't it?

And for the record, Mr. Tambourine Man by the Byrds couldn't sound less slick and contrived to me if the Byrds were singing along to musical backing piped in from speakers behind a wall. Same for the Monkees singing anything.

[StevegSr]

Dial it back a bit, please.

Ok, it's done. But it doesn't change the truth or remove my quote from this site.

[regenerativemusic]

What's the name of you guy's commune going to be? are you going to buy toilet paper?

[veteranof1000psychicwars]

Late to the thread but "corporate rock" was EXCLUSIVELY used in the years 1976-1979, and was used to describe "faceless" bands like Foreigner, Journey, Styx, Boston, Toto, and a couple others. IIRC this was a phrase created by some of the new scribes at Rolling Stone, after all the good writers like Bangs, Charles M. Young, Ben Fong-Torres, etc., had jumped ship.
This phrase was only meant to refer to bands in that period of time, when all the "great" new music was being made by the Sex Pistols and their ilk. The phrase did not survive (or certainly should not) that short period of rock history....it does not pertain to any bands or music made after that period of time.
It was just a stupid fucking catchphrase for bands who were still producing rock music in an unfavorable climate, and didn't happen to put their pictures on the covers of their albums. I think even Kansas was lumped in there when Leftoverture came out.

So....trust me, that was the only time that "corporate rock" was used to describe bands. How they came up with that, I don't know...they seemed to think that these bands were put together as a marketing ploy, and 'inauthentic', as punk was rearing its revolutionary, useless head.

All popular rock now, what is left of it is "corporate", if it's to have any popularity and impact, but that has no bearing on the genesis of the phrase.

[yamishogun]

Late to the thread but "corporate rock" was EXCLUSIVELY used in the years 1976-1979, and was used to describe "faceless" bands like Foreigner, Journey, Styx, Boston, Toto, and a couple others. IIRC this was a phrase created by some of the new scribes at Rolling Stone, after all the good writers like Bangs, Charles M. Young, Ben Fong-Torres, etc., had jumped ship.
This phrase was only meant to refer to bands in that period of time, when all the "great" new music was being made by the Sex Pistols and their ilk. The phrase did not survive (or certainly should not) that short period of rock history....it does not pertain to any bands or music made after that period of time.

Correct. But I was only 8 in 1978 and as precocious as I was, I wasn't reading Rolling Stone then. I first read the phrase "corporate rock" in the 80s in Rolling Stone but with reference to those bands but not often. I knew which bands they were writing about but didn't make sense. The irony is that Styx was singing "The Grand Illusion" in 1977, telling people not buy into commercialism that is on TV and in magazines. Boston had a hit, "Peace of Mind," singing about climbing "the company ladder" - and how it sucks. That was from 1976 and the second song on the first album. Way to kick off a corporate rock band!

Oh, I remember Dennis DeYoung said that Burger King wanted to use "The Best of Times" for a commercial. He said no and laughed, "I didn't want it to be "The Best of Fries!""

[GuitarGeek]

Boston had a hit, "Peace of Mind," singing about climbing "the company ladder" - and how it sucks. That was from 1976 and the second song on the first album. Way to kick off a corporate rock band!

In a way, Boston were the antithesis of "corporate" attitude. Tom Scholz had a very "It'll be finished when it's finished" attitude, and didn't care to tailor his work to the deadlines imposed by the high sheriffs at whichever label he was working for at the time. He's always maintained that he was only half finished with Don't Look Back when the overlords at Epic Records took the masters out of his hands and released it. He even suggested everyone who bought that album should have gotten half their money back from the label. And of course, after Don't Look Back he infamously took forever to record each successive album. I remember which critic it was at Rolling Stone snarkily referring to Third Stage as "Boston's first (and probably last) album of the Reagan era". And indeed, he's never once released two albums during the same Presidential regime.

And even his approach to arranging, to things like guitar tones, etc, was relatively unique, certainly not keeping with any kind of "assembly line" logic. Even the way he did guitar overdubs seemed to go against the usual trend of trying to make multiple guitars sound like some akin to a choir or a string section or horn section, where it blends into one big voice. I guess one could argue that the guitars on the Boston records DO blend into "one big voice", but Scholz deliberately avoided recreating any of the minute details of one overdub when doing another, say if he was doubling a part or overdubbing a harmony line. He said it was because he "didn't want it to sound like a machine", which I suppose is a reasonably point, but even still, it made the band sound subtly different from anyone else doing those type of things.

[GuitarGeek]

Oh, I remember Dennis DeYoung said that Burger King wanted to use "The Best of Times" for a commercial. He said no and laughed, "I didn't want it to be "The Best of Fries!""

Babe would have been a better choice for a fast food advert. If there was a song that deserved to be used in a TV commercial, it's that one. Worse use of a Fender Rhodes, EVER!!!!!

[Trane]

I think what Jacob Holm-Lupo wrote sums up the label well:

"There's really only one correct answer to this: Corporate rock was used to describe the bands otherwise known as arena rock or AOR. Foreigner, Asia, Journey, Boston ...
It was a derogatory term, and incorrect as well."

The term was only used against Journey, Foreigner, Boston, Asia, and Styx - maybe along with a couple of others. They happened to be the bands that were huge from 1978 to 1982 and played in arenas. I'm not sure if Asia was called corporate rock since a little later and the term "super group" started.

I don't remember Styx being labelled as Corp Rock... And I'd say that AOR Corp Rock bands filled football stadiums, not hockey arenas ... Though The Who and Zep filled stadiums, they never got camlled that, because they weren't AOR

All I can say is without Ertagun believing in Yes and Genesis, both may have died quiet deaths

Not sure Ertegun had personally anything to do with Genesis being distributed through Buddha

"Corporate rock" began to be used in the mid-1970s. It pertained to a particular set of characteristics, which I have already mentioned. It did not pertain to "any music that is lucrative and released on a major label." Splitting the two words up and finding anything that could pertain to any meaning combination of the two words is both missing the point and defining the term so broadly so as for it to be essentially meaningless. There are lots of bands/albums that made millions that would not be considered corporate rock under the traditional common usage, and many other bands that were only marginally successful, which would. It is telling that searching for "corporate rock" under Wikipedia redirects to Arena Rock.

The use of the term coincided with the explosive growth of the music industry, which was propelled by the mass popularity of a style of music ("rock," as opposed to "rock and roll") that had been created/appropriated by the counterculture.

I was thinking 1977/1978, so yes; could really be "late '70s."

Even then, I'd say that it's a little too soon for the "Corp Rock" label. IMHO, it's an early 80's thing. Had The Eagles and Doobie Bros and Steely Dan lived past the turn of the decade long enough, they might've bneen branded the "corp rock" label - and I'm not aware they were called that... Well, in some ways, those LA bands did get another label: "Yacht Rock"

[Trane]

I'll say it one more time: Corporate Rock was never about a single genre, as much as prog purists would like portray it as such. It was separate musical business enterprises that catered to cookie cutter varieties of rock and pop, with the recorded companies holding major artistic control over their signed artists, as well as the rights to their souls. It's quite simple really.

Well, of course MJ could've been branded the "corp rock" label, but that label never was branded to pure pop artistes. indeed there was an intention notion that "rock" should've been "purer" than pop in its commercial and artistic goals, but that'sbeing more catholic than the pope

Same result to my ears: wimpy and irritating.

Yup, though I must say that I wuldn't lump Styx in that "irritating and whinny/wimpy" category... First they had three singers (JY being the worst of the three and DDY the better one)... And DDY had a very different voice than most of these AOR/CR singers like Cronin, Thomas or Perry

Oh, and if you seriously can't tell the difference between Journey, REO Speedwagon, Jefferson Starship, Boston, and Rainbow, you're not really paying attention. How the frell can you mistake Journey for Rainbow? If nothing else, you should be able to tell the difference between Blackmore and Schon. And secondly, Perry and the singers who were in Rainbow sound nothing alike. If you seriously heard Since You Been Gone, Stone Cold, Power, or Street Of Dreams and thought "That sounds like Journey", or if you heard Faithfully, Chain Reaction or Don't Stop Believin' and thought "Is that the new Rainbow record?", honestly, there's no way I can take you seriously as any kind of listener of rock music.

Well, I believe that the comment that occupies your thoughts here was more of a lumping or dumping ground, like as teens, we called some funk & RnB acts as "that disco shit/crap".

I mean, in some ways, the songs of all these bands were interchangeable... Wheels In The Sky could've been played by REO, Starship's Miracles (though in an earlier time frame than Corp Rock) could've been sung and played by Journey, (etc...) and we wouldn't have budged

"AOR" - in North America, anyway - means "album oriented rock" and pertains to an FM radio format that began in the 1970s, not a genre of music. AOR was the radio format precursor to the "classic rock" format, which became popular in the late 1980s.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Album-oriented_rock

But the Adult Oriented (whether Rock or Radio) has been aroubd so long that it merits its own wikipoage as well... Personally as a Canadian teen, I had never heard of this Album-Oriented Rock/Radio) label, until much later than the "adult" thing

AOR was a reaction to bands like Floyd and Tull, who wrote suites that only worked if you played the whole album. Playing whole albums on the radio was never very common -- "Home Taping Is Killing Muisc" -- but for a while there it was not unheard of either.

well, you're right, but then again, I was too young to witness this album-oriented radios of the early 70's. Though I doubt they played both sides of an album at once (back to back), I'sd think they played those 10 or 15-mins-long tracks back to back without interruptions (spoken or commercial)...

But by 74 (when I started getting into it), most likely that model of radio was commercially dead... at least in the daytime... because night-time, adults (who listned to AORock/radio) were in front of the tv, while us teens were listening to our radios in our bedrooms while doing homeworks or fondling the girl next door