Maybe it's a flare.Originally Posted by Nijinsky Hind
Maybe it's a flare.
Haaha... Hmmmm... Sounds like when the sub would hit bottom in "Voyage to the bottom of the sea".
I'm glad you have an imagination. love sailors tale.
Still alive and well...
I couldn't have said it better
Thanks for the kind words, everyone who has posted them. Easier than replying individually, and hope you are ok with that
I don't like Mel Collins mistake on a sailor's tale... he ruined the climax with that minor third instead of the major!!!
Finally listened to this...this hits many homeruns as far as I'm concerned. It is leagues better than the Orpheum release, especially in sound. I'm sure i'll be spinning it often, at least until the next one comes along.
I only have three (somewhat) minor complaints... 1) while the mastering seems quite an improvement, the mix still leaves me mildly confused. The bass is certainly quiet, and during the end of both Sailor's Tale and Starless the guitar seems to be rather buried, which is a shame. 2) I was never a Vroom guy, but this 'new' version certainly is a turn in the wrong direction. 3) For reasons I can't properly articulate, I'm not a huge fan of Jakko's voice. Particularly on things like Easy Money and Epitaph.
But still...there is much to like here. An incredibly dynamic performance. And I found Meltdown to be interesting enough to give me hope that there will be new goodies in the future (although it could've used less vocals...)
Please don't ask questions, just use google.
Never let good music get in the way of making a profit.
I'm only here to reglaze my bathtub.
I think Jakko hit a vocal home run in Toronto. To these ears, the singing's great! I've listened through the set a couple times now. Very grateful that they put this out.
Jakko's vocals are the weak point of this new Crimson. He's serviceable, but you can't help but compare him to Greg Lake and John Wetton, whose songs he is singing, and he just falls way short.
He's not a bad singer, just not good enough for these songs, in my opinion.
I agree. He does a very good job.
My progressive music site: https://pienemmatpurot.com/ Reviews in English: https://pienemmatpurot.com/in-english/
I'm no expert.
I think that the singing at this concert was excellent, and that the songs got the benefit of it and shine accordingly.
Completely disagree - I really enjoy the vocals here. To say he's not good enough for these songs? Really man?
Yeah, that's my opinion. Jakko's voice lacks the richness and expressiveness of Greg Lake's and John Wetton's voices. When listening to the songs on this album, I can't help but compare the vocals to the original singers.
I really wish Fripp had gotten John Wetton to be the vocalist for this version of Crimson. Would have been perfect. Jakko could still be in the band playing second guitar and singing harmony and back-up vocals. Tony Levin would still be the bassist; John would just sing. I bet he would have gone for that.
Sorry, man; to each their own. If I ever have to hear Wetton sing "Exiles" out of tune (he almost never makes those high notes...except on the studio version, where I'm sure there were punch-ins), it'll be too soon. No disrespect, but he was asked to sing music that was way out of his range (ditto the intro to "Easy Money" in most live versions...and with those three LT-era box sets, there are many ()....
Jakko, OTOH, rarely demonstrated such problems. Every singer has a bad night, of course....or a cold or throat problem...but just as Peter Gabriel's stamina was poor in Genesis, so that by halfway through many shows I saw he was just no longer able to make those high notes (something he clearly addressed subsequently, as when he went solo he got a whole lot better on that front), so, too, with Wetton was it a regular occurrence.
I like Jakko's voice a great deal; he has the "British" to make singing the early material feel right; he's hot (IMO) lovely tone, and is expressive enough to be both reverent to the songs while making them absolutely his own.
Also remember: this incarnation of Crimson was specifically drawn up of people with whom Fripp would get along easily, with no melodrama - and he's not the only one whose fed up with interpersonal bullshit these days; a famous jazz guitarist told me, after a show, how much he enjoyed playing with a group of mature people who come to the gig every night with but one goal: to deliver the best possible show they can.
I don't know for certain, but equally am not completely sure if that could be said about Wetton. I could be (and would be happy to be) wrong...
Last edited by jkelman; 04-18-2016 at 08:41 AM.
Hmm. This from a piece of tape found in Steve Wilson's dustbin:
Fripp: Just what is it that you want to do?
Wetton: We wanna get loaded. And we wanna have a good time. That's what we're gonna do.
Bruford: Oh yeah baby let's go.
Wetton: We're gonna have a good time. We're gonna have a party
I'd also say that John's.. let's say.. technical imperfections were a fitting part of the package. He balanced out the intonation with sheer vocal power, which worked great for the dynamics of KC74. OtOH Jakko's refined quality is much better for what KC14- is doing (despite my reservations about the fittingness of his vocal tone for some particular songs).
Let's also remember that JW's voice today is obviously a bit different from what it was 42 years ago....
I think you could say that unlike most people around his age, he's a better singer now than when he was younger.
Have you heard JW singing with Asia lately? His voice remains amazing, like it's still 1974. As for JW and RF getting along, they had a good meeting a couple of years ago. I think all personal issues were cleared up. In any case, Jakko is the singer, so I'll take what I get. Still don't like his vocals, but oh well.
After living with this album for a little bit, I stand by my original assessment that it's way better than the Orpheum disc. Maybe it's the mix, maybe the performance, maybe just me but the whole thing has more intensity and power and it's an absolute joy to hear another lineup go at these tracks. I am sure this Crimson is a sight to behold and hopefully they'll make another swing through the States. I have no problem with a victory lap or whatever for the mighty Crim, but thus far this lineup hasn't really grabbed me in a more substantial way other than hearing some amazing musicians play some of my favorites songs again. Admittedly, that's it's own reward. In short, I just don't get the element of danger previous lineups had.
As far as Jakko, I'm not the biggest fan of his vocals either, but I don't doubt his ability one bit. In fact, from a technical standpoint, I'd say you could make a good case he's the best singer the band has ever had, but maybe that's part of my issue. He's mainly trying to fill a role. I enjoy his guitar, particularly when he's swapping with Fripp, much more.
Yeah, still hasn't shipped. DGM . . .
I want to dynamite your mind with love tonight.
Nuts!
Ha... Maybe I got yours... I downloaded the flac but did not buy the CD. They sent me a CD anyway.
I was thinking maybe it was because of the tech glitch the day I tried to order but couldn't. They may have sent a CD to those who had cards declined due to the glitch.
Just give RF a call on the crim-phone...
image.jpg
Still alive and well...
See, it's 1974 I'm talking about. His vocals were always the weak link for me in the LTIA band (heaven forbid!)...
...when singing in range, he was fine...not amazing, for me, but fine enough. And the benefit of studio punch-ins meant they could fix places where he ran into trouble, range-wise:
1. The opening "Doo da Doo da da" of "Easy Money," when he went for those upper range notes and, live, almost never made them ... this substantiated on the three mega boxes;
2. Upper register lines on "Exiles." Same problem, live
3. "The Great Deceiver"....ditto.
Bottom line: when he tried to push the upper end of his range live, he more often than not failed to make it.
So telling me he's singing like it was 1974 again is faint praise, I'm afraid. I never listened much to Asia because I didn't like that band much at all. Perhap Wetton, like Gabriel, got some vocal coaching, which certainly helped Gabriel, post-Genesis...especially live - in studio is no measure as even then, they could keep at it until they got a useable take....heck, the story about Robbie Robertson's first solo album p- that he punched in literally every single line...meaning he couldn't sing more than a single phrase at a time without running into problems - is legendary. The end result of all those punch-ins is, indeed, great....but when you Robertson try to sing live (as he did on Saturday Night Live), it becomes clear how incapable he was a a singer. Now, not saying Gabriel or Wetton's problems were as severe; but Gabriel's stamina and range improved significantly post-Genesis....until, that is, the tour in support of Up, where there were so many clams I had to get rid of the two live shows I'd bought from Gabriel's website. But by the time of New Blood he'd clearly fixed things as his singing on New Blood: Live in London is superb, I think...
I will also say what I've heard of Wetton singing Crimson with Districr 97 is very good....if anything, contrary to usual aging, his range seemed better than it was 40 years prior. So perhaps he's had some coaching, because it's not uncommon for singers in the rock sphere to be doing things that hurt their voices, reducing their stamina for the long haul of a live show. If they can hit the notes sometimes, then it's often a matter of finding out what they're doing wrong and fixing it. Gabriel has certainly done it, so perhaps Wetton has too, in all fairness.
But 1974? Sorry, man, but .... gimme Jakko any day of the week.
Last edited by jkelman; 04-19-2016 at 12:34 AM.
It's also not even remotely true. Wetton's voice is far, far beyond what it was in '74 these days. I think someone upthread may have made this comment, or maybe I'm remembering it from somewhere else, but yeah, Wetton is the rare case of someone's voice improving with age. Although it probably has more to do with him getting his shit together than with him aging. He has clearly made a real effort to improve his voice in the last decade or so.
Turned my prog bud onto the album on Sunday. He had heard nothing of this iteration, was surprised by the three-drummer front-line, but loved the album, is now regretting not seeing the show in Boston as we did.
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