Anderson/Stolt- "Invention of Knowledge"

[Sean]

Looks like it's up at Progstreaming. Let us know your impressions!

http://progstreaming.com/extended/pa...n+Of+Knowledge

[happytheman]

I got this on Friday and gave it as objective a listen as possible. I have it in the car today for my daily commute, even. I don't really think very highly of it, and would honestly listen to FFH, The Ladder, Keys, or even Union over this on an average day. Musically it lacks the kind of urgency that resonates with me in the finest Yes albums, and feels overly busy (even in the softer spots). The nicest moments don't remind me of Yes, as much as Jon + Vangelis sans the latter's musical qualities.

But I'm also kind of realizing that it is because Anderson's style just doesn't resonate with me like it does for others. Even in classic Yes, it's the music underneath that moves me, not his lyrics or voice. Put the elements of Yes in another context and with a strong driver like Trevor Horn, and I'll take results like Fly From Here or Drama over Invention any day.

So...for me it isn't much of a win, even if I do get that it must be a very welcome release for other folks. Sort of like Pink Floyd vs. Roger Waters in the late 80's/early 90's...I'm glad that both this and FFH exist, so that there's something for fans of either sound to enjoy as they will

Hmm.. Interesting.. I purposely played H&E, FFH and this album back to back this weekend while I was driving / doing yardwork etc. FFH obviously has more balls than H&E but I think this is better than both of those releases.. but hey.. I'm an Anderson fan.. I guess all I was trying to do was see where Yes' has been recently vs. Jon.. I'm in the camp that's excited Jon is back..

[mozo-pg]

I've only listened once but this is the best thing a Yes member has done since the 70s. I like it far more than any Yes release in the last 15 years. Roine's playing blends seamlessly with the vocals. I always thought Jon was the voice of Yes and this release reinforces this point. I like everything about this release, instant melodies and hooks galore. I even like the spacey lyrics.

[JKL2000]

Darren was...um...less than impressed.

As usual I couldn't make it through more than two minutes of his NINE minute review. Christ he's long winded and unfunny.

[aith01]

As usual I couldn't make it through more than two minutes of his NINE minute review. Christ he's long winded and unfunny.

The thing about him is I want to like him, for some odd reason, even though I almost always disagree with his point of view. He seems like he would be fun to have a beer with and just talk about music.

Or maybe not. *shrug*

One of my favorite releases of 2015 was Nad Sylvan's Courting The Widow, and he really didn't give that one a fair shake either IMO. But hey, that's why there's chocolate and vanilla.

I'm finding that I absolutely love the Everybody Heals epic (all three sections) from IoK. The rest of the album is still sinking in I think, but Everybody Heals has some really wonderfully beautiful moments.

[bondegezou]

Finally got this yesterday! There's 'plenty' to absorb so it's going to take multiple listens before I pass judgement. I note that Roine wasn't actually the co-writer on quite a lot of the music, anyone know who the other guy is who Jon wrote with?

Background is here: http://www.bondegezou.co.uk/wnja.htm#stolt

Henry

[bondegezou]

I've only listened once but this is the best thing a Yes member has done since the 70s.

I would suggest at least the following as counter-examples to that claim....

Animation
Time
Jacaranda
Skin & Wire
Asia
Welcome to the Pleasuredome
Piano Works
Introspective
Discipline

But, yes, it's a very good album.

Henry

[battema]

Hmm.. Interesting.. I purposely played H&E, FFH and this album back to back this weekend while I was driving / doing yardwork etc. FFH obviously has more balls than H&E but I think this is better than both of those releases.. but hey.. I'm an Anderson fan.. I guess all I was trying to do was see where Yes' has been recently vs. Jon.. I'm in the camp that's excited Jon is back..

Hey, it's all good. We like what we like

I actually broke out a bit of H&E recently too...it hasn't really aged well for me (not that it was a favorite upon release). It is kind of frustrating at times; there are moments where the songs feel about to take off, but then fall back into something more lackluster. In some ways it's the same feeling I have around Invention of Knowledge; there are some interesting ideas buried in there but they all seem to plateau at a certain "midpoint" energy level. It's armchair producing to be fair, but I find myself in both cases kind of wishing that Yes (H&E) and Anderson/Stolt (IoK) had just worked a bit longer on the arrangements, punched things up a bit.

Just my $0.02.

[mozo-pg]

I would suggest at least the following as counter-examples to that claim....

Animation
Time
Jacaranda
Skin & Wire
Asia
Welcome to the Pleasuredome
Piano Works
Introspective
Discipline

But, yes, it's a very good album.

Henry

Yeah, I was using a bit of hyperbole.

Although I do prefer the IOK to several of the ones listed above.

[Rael]

^ He doesn't like any new Prog at all, but he likes Phil Collins and 80's Genesis. Darren is entertaining but his opinions are just that and not worth more than anyone else's.

He doesn't like the kind of new prog that gets discussed around here, that's true. But he does like things that are...I guess "progressive"; stuff like Tortoise, Laurie Anderson and the more ambient/electronic side of music. I kind of share his opinion on the modern prog, but I don't feel so strongly or angry about it.

I largely agree with most of what he says on this video about the album, even if I don't hate it. It feels kind of formless to me and it just goes on and on and on. But I'm glad most here are enjoying it.

[zumacraig]

As usual I couldn't make it through more than two minutes of his NINE minute review. Christ he's long winded and unfunny.

Trying to be sarcastic, but obviously not. Quip about Inside/Out is ridiculous. AND, he says Howe plays a pedal steel. That's a huge red flag that this dude doesn't know what he's talking about. If you are going to make a comment about the 'Yes Sound' then you should at least know the elements of said sound.

[Fracktured]

As usual I couldn't make it through more than two minutes of his NINE minute review. Christ he's long winded and unfunny.

First time I've heard of him. His downright f'n annoying. I couldn't care less what he thought after one minute.

[Koreabruce]

His reviews are pretty much all like that. I think I only made it through one of them all the way to the end and then wished I hadn't wasted my time. Since then I've stepped into several others hoping things would be different somehow, but... no. Concision and humor are two things he doesn't do particularly well, which doesn't bode well for ALBUM REVIEWS.

[Progatron]

I can't believe anyone watches those reviews. I mean, to each their own 'n all that, but wow.

[Luckie]

As usual I couldn't make it through more than two minutes of his NINE minute review. Christ he's long winded and unfunny.

He's an utterly charmless nerk from the Wakeman school of demotic 'wit'. The camera's too close to him for a start - we don't want to see the flecks of white spittle forming in your exasperated gob, mate. And would it kill the long-winded scrote to have at least an outline of something resembling a script so we don't feel like we're being buttonholed by a tedious monomaniac in a bus station?

I'm just kidding - he's very good and raises some salient points.

[chalkpie]

He's an utterly charmless nerk from the Wakeman school of demotic 'wit'. The camera's too close to him for a start - we don't want to see the flecks of white spittle forming in your exasperated gob, mate. And would it kill the long-winded scrote to have at least an outline of something resembling a script so we don't feel like we're being buttonholed by a tedious monomaniac in a bus station?

I'm just kidding - he's very good and raises some salient points.

Ha!

[JKL2000]

I would suggest at least the following as counter-examples to that claim....

Animation
Time
Jacaranda
Skin & Wire
Asia
Welcome to the Pleasuredome
Piano Works
Introspective
Discipline

But, yes, it's a very good album.

Henry

Wasn't even thinking of KC. All the post 70s ones!

[JKL2000]

He goes back to r.m.p I think, which is the only reason I've ever given any of his "reviews" a chance.

[Plasmatopia]

Maybe someone can post one of his positive reviews for comparison? It might be interesting to see how he talks about something he likes.


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[moecurlythanu]

As usual I couldn't make it through more than two minutes of his NINE minute review. Christ he's long winded and unfunny.

Just watched it. I didn't think he was trying for a humor angle, so I can give him a pass on that, and his charge that it's formless, rambling and unfocused has been made by others here, so is it really an illegitimate opinion? I've never seen him before and don't have any skin in his game. Just tryin' to be objective. He is long winded, though. Could have been half as long without the repetition.

[Akustika]

Well...there's a lot in his (Darren's) review that I don't disagree with, but he's also being more than a little hyperbolic. I can't imagine his review not rubbing some folks the wrong way.

I enjoyed his rant from about the 4:57 mark ... he didnt like it much.

I got this on Friday and gave it as objective a listen as possible. I have it in the car today for my daily commute, even. I don't really think very highly of it, and would honestly listen to FFH, The Ladder, Keys, or even Union over this on an average day. Musically it lacks the kind of urgency that resonates with me in the finest Yes albums, and feels overly busy (even in the softer spots). The nicest moments don't remind me of Yes, as much as Jon + Vangelis sans the latter's musical qualities.

But I'm also kind of realizing that it is because Anderson's style just doesn't resonate with me like it does for others. Even in classic Yes, it's the music underneath that moves me, not his lyrics or voice. Put the elements of Yes in another context and with a strong driver like Trevor Horn, and I'll take results like Fly From Here or Drama over Invention any day.

So...for me it isn't much of a win, even if I do get that it must be a very welcome release for other folks.

I pretty much agree with this ^^ (although I DO very much like Jon in classic Yes) and everyone else who has said it's too 'wordy', etc...

[Plasmatopia]

...and his charge that it's formless, rambling and unfocused has been made by others here, so is it really an illegitimate opinion? .

It's hard for me to outright say that someone's opinion is illegitimate and/or worthless or whatever. But I'd have to say that in this case I'm biased by my own experience which is that I thought it was rather formless myself the first time through and questioned whether I'd ever find much to like about it. Now that I've listened to it more I think anyone who really gives it sufficient time (and that likely varies for each of us) and still calls it "formless" is being deliberately disingenuous or somehow just has no clue about music. So I have a hard time taking this guy's review seriously due to that particular complaint. Completely understand if people don't like it due to other factors though.

[battema]

Maybe someone can post one of his positive reviews for comparison? It might be interesting to see how he talks about something he likes.

He has trashed some stuff that I do like, liked some stuff that did nothing for me, and all sorts of variations between...doesn't really irk me or wind me up personally. Not any more or less than some of the amateur comedians here on Chez PE, if we're being honest here

[Plasmatopia]

He has trashed some stuff that I do like, liked some stuff that did nothing for me, and all sorts of variations between...doesn't really irk me or wind me up personally. Not any more or less than some of the amateur comedians here on Chez PE, if we're being honest here

Thanks, I'll check that out.

The difference here at PE is that I can generally read various opinions quickly and easily and also get a lot of different ones....instead of hearing one person droning on for several minutes without being particularly succinct.

[battema]

Thanks, I'll check that out.

The difference here at PE is that I can generally read various opinions quickly and easily and also get a lot of different ones....instead of hearing one person droning on for several minutes without being particularly succinct.

Sure, I get that Not white-knighting him or anything, just kind of describing my own perspective...he's not really that much different from the folks that post here (hell, he might well be lurking on here). I do sometimes skip around the reviews a bit, or just listen in the background while doing other things.