When Rockers Hire Jazzers

[yoyiceu]

Corrected. Hope you're feeling better now.

[Dave (in MA)]

Corrected. Hope you're feeling better now.

Much. Thanks.

(I resisted the temptation to put 1000 empty lines in my reply)

[bigbassdrum]

The Phil Collins Big Band - Hot Night in Paris?

[Jerjo]

One of Keith Richards' better ballads, How Can I Stop, has a killer Wayne Shorter solo, supposedly recorded at 5:00 am.

[jkelman]

Wouldn't this be like citing everyone in Weather Report, Mahavishnu or RTF??

Well, not really. All three of the above groups were groups where jazz musicians (every one of them with heavy jazz backgrounds, many of them Miles Davis alum) wanted to play music that was, in their view, jazz but with rock edge, rhythms...and, especially, volume.

But they were, at their core, jazz groups, even though they weren't your granddaddy's jazz groups () because they were started by jazz musicians who simply wanted to take jazz to the next step by blending it with rock music (and other genres as well).

Groups that simply hired jazzers to play in their rock groups (even prog groups) was and is a little different. Steven Wilson, for example - who spoke about this practice in my 2012 interview - hiring Adam Holzman, a broad (turning out to be, in fact, one of the broadest I know) player who has proven himself tremendously capable in just about any context; that said, when you listen to him solo (example: "No Twilight in the Court of the Sun"), his total comfort with and background in the jazz vernacular is crystal clear.

Aside from being able to play absolutely anything Steven sends his way, Adam brings a broader language to Steven's music - as did Theo Travis and Guthrie Govan, whereas Dave Kilminster, as great as he absolutely is, comes from a more old school rock background...or, at least, that's what I hear in his playing with Steven (but he totally fits and I suspect has the background to play anything he's asked to do as well).

Jazzers are often more schooled and more versed in improvisation; while it's changing, a lot of classically trained players can read, and can have tremendous chops...but until the past 1-2 decades, improvisation was not something with which they were particularly comfortable. But even that is changing now, and in a big way.

[Sonia_Mota]

Now, on the other-hand, Miles Davis was a jazz musician/ band leader who had many artists that later became famous and influential musicians after working with him i.e. These included Wayne Shorter and Joe Zawinul (Weather Report), Chick Corea (Return to Forever), and John McLaughlin and Billy Cobham (Mahavishnu Orchestra). Miles had a knick for seeing talent in others

[simon moon]

Can't believe I missed this one.

Megadeath hired jazz/fusion guitarist, Chris Poland, currently guitarist with OHM.

He was a jazz/fusion player long before a rocker. He played with a band called "The New Yorkers" from 77-82 (with OHM bassist Robert "Pag" Palgiari). They played around LA quite a bit in the early 80's. They were monsters!

[Trane]

Well, not really. All three of the above groups were groups where jazz musicians (every one of them with heavy jazz backgrounds, many of them Miles Davis alum) wanted to play music that was, in their view, jazz but with rock edge, rhythms...and, especially, volume.

But they were, at their core, jazz groups, even though they weren't your granddaddy's jazz groups () because they were started by jazz musicians who simply wanted to take jazz to the next step by blending it with rock music (and other genres as well).

Well, that's where I was getting at ... Bruce, Mitchell and Baker were originally jazz musicians that veered "rock" (for whatever reasons) by joining at the start a "rock group". They were at the base of the group... So my reaction was to cite the posts that mentioned them and make the analogy or counter-analogy if you wish) with RTF, WR and MO

Actually, as Bruce & Baker were saying, Cream was a jazz group, they just never told Eric .
Mitchell's case is a bit different, since the group was built around Jimi... But Jinny played with Mitch until the very end, which was not the case with Noel.

[jake]

Nels Cline picked up by Wilco in the transfer window.

[jkelman]

Nels Cline picked up by Wilco in the transfer window.

Well, what happened there was Nels Cline was in the post-Punk group with Carla Bouzulich, The Geraldine Fibbers, and they did a tour opening for Wilco. Tweedy was so blown away (as he should have been!) by Nels, that when it came time to find a new guitarist, Nels was top of the list. In my 2004 All About Jazz interview, conducted over dinner before a Wilco show in Ottawa, Nels goes into the history, and how he was almost ready to find a day job because he was playing every night but couldn't pay the rent.

Joining Wilco has not only been good for Wilco, but good for Nels, as he has a bigger audience and can continue his jazzier predilections without having to worry so much about the income side.

[Hyfi]

I am surprised that Pink Floyd - The Wall was left out for Lee Ritenour

In 1979, Ritenour "was brought in to beef up one of Pink Floyd's The Wall's heaviest rock numbers, "Run Like Hell"." He also played "uncredited rhythm guitar" on "One of My Turns".

[interbellum]

Herbie Hancock played a fine solo on the album New Gold Dream from Simple Minds.

I believe The Brecker Brothers are already mentioned. They were asked by many rock-artists. Crack The Sky had them on their first album.

[nosebone]

Holdsy played on the Level 42 album, Guaranteed

[pb2015]

Holdsy played on the Level 42 album, Guaranteed

For that matter, Gary Husband joined them for that album and a few others.

[GuitarGeek]

I am surprised that Pink Floyd - The Wall was left out for Lee Ritenour

In 1979, Ritenour "was brought in to beef up one of Pink Floyd's The Wall's heaviest rock numbers, "Run Like Hell"." He also played "uncredited rhythm guitar" on "One of My Turns".

I had the impression he played the solo on One Of My Turns. I thought I had read where Gilmour said he drew a blank on that song, so they had to bring in a studio rat to deputize for him on that song. Gilmour also said that's not him playing the nylon guitar on Is There Anybody Out There, because he couldn't manage the finger picking. He said he could play with a leather pick, which gave a similar tone, but he felt it needed to proper fingerpicking (though of course, he eventually had to play the part on stage).

And the reason why no one thought of him is probably because he and I think nearly everyone else who played on that album who isn't named David Gilmour or Roger Waters, went uncredited. I think the children's choir is named, but that's it.

As I recall, Lee Ritenour was a studio guy who played on lots of people's records, though. Same thing with Larry Carlton.

[GuitarGeek]

One of the more *bizarre* was Ginger Baker with Hawkwind.
.

I believe I read that Hawkwind guitarist Huw Lloyd Langton's wife, Marion, worked for Ginge in some capacity. The band needed someone to replace Simon King after the summer 1980 tour, and so the band made contact with Ginge, through Marion. He sounds awesome on both Levitation and the live recordings that were made on tour the following winter (some of which were used on This Is Hawkwind Do Not Panic and Zones, a few years later, and of course that entire gig was eventually issued in it's entirety on a 3 CD reissue of Levitation a few yeras back).

I still thikn it's hilarious that Ginge wanted them to sack Harvey Bainbridge and replace him with Jack Bruce.