When Rockers Hire Jazzers

[jake]

Finding this podcast here
http://straightnochaserjazz.libsyn.c...jazz-musicians
got me thinking - There are so many more cases where rock musicians have hired jazz musicians for recording sessions. Among those mentioned on the podcast are

The Mamas and the Papas - “California Dreamin’” – Bud Shank, alto flute.
The Doors – “Touch Me” – Curtis Amy, sax
Ian Hunter – “All-American Alien Boy” – David Sanborn, sax and Jaco Pastorius, bass
Lou Reed – “The Bells” – Don Cherry, trumpet
Steely Dan – “Aja” – Wayne Shorter, sax; Joe Sample, electric piano; and Larry Carlton, guitar
Sting – “Moon Over Bourbon Street” – Branford Marsalis, sax; Kenny Kirkland, piano; and Omar Hakim, drums
The Rolling Stones – “Waiting On a Friend” – Sonny Rollins, sax

I thought in addition

Steve Hillage - Don Cherry on L (Lunar Musick Suite)
Lou Reed - although strictly speaking it was arranged by David Bowie and Mick Ronson - Ronnie Ross Baritone sax on "Walk on the Wild Side"
Steely Dan - Admittedly they probably used as many jazzers as rockers on their albums I would highlight, other than the aforementioned Wayne Shorter, the greats Chris Potter and Victor Feldman
Bill Laswell's memorable and weird pairing of as yet undiscovered Whitney Houston and Archie Shepp on Material's cover of the Hugh Hopper song Memories.

Any others come to mind......

[progeezer]

^^^^^ Sting – “Moon Over Bourbon Street” – Branford Marsalis, sax; Kenny Kirkland, piano; and Omar Hakim, drums

I saw that tour ("Blue Turtles"), and in addition to the 3 mentioned, the band that toured that album included Daryll Jones on bass (Sting was going through his temporary guitar phase at the time), who had done a lot of jazz session work prior to "Turtles" and subsequent to "Turtles" took Bill Wyman's place in the Corpses. Janice Pendarvis sings backup on 3 or 4 Steely Dan albums that pre-date "Turtles" as well. They were flawless (not a word I use a lot) that night.

[Scott Bails]

^^^^^ Sting – “Moon Over Bourbon Street” – Branford Marsalis, sax; Kenny Kirkland, piano; and Omar Hakim, drums

I saw that tour ("Blue Turtles"), and in addition to the 3 mentioned, the band that toured that album included Daryll Jones on bass (Sting was going through his temporary guitar phase at the time), who had done a lot of jazz session work prior to "Turtles" and subsequent to "Turtles" took Bill Wyman's place in the Corpses. Janice Pendarvis sings backup on 3 or 4 Steely Dan albums that pre-date "Turtles" as well. They were flawless (not a word I use a lot) that night.

Man, I would have loved to have seen that band live. So much talent.

[Dana5140]

For Steely Dan, add Steve Gadd.

[mogrooves]

Charlie Mariano played with Embryo

[walt]

Mal Waldron played on an Embyro session.

Henry Lowther(trumpet) played on a couple of Talk Talk albums

Curtis Amy played on Carole King's Tapestry album.

[polmico]

Mal Waldron played on an Embyro session.

I know and like Mal Waldron. Embryo I am unfamiliar with. Sounds interesting. I shall Google.

King Crimson hired Tippett and a bunch of his friends.

I forgot that was Wheeler on Dead Bees and Beehive. I just figured it was Isham (who is on Gone to Earth along with Torn--come to think of it, Torn also worked with Bowie).

[Dave (in MA)]

Not sure how that list didn't end up beginning with Astral Weeks.

[progeezer]

Not sure how that list didn't end up beginning with Astral Weeks.

!! Me neither.

YUP!

I've gotten to know bassist Richard Davis a little (through local mutual friends) since he joined the UW-Madison faculty 30 years ago. We have the blessing in Madtown of him putting together combos for one or two-offs locally frequently, often with guests like (the late) Richie Cole, Joe Sample, Fareed Haque, Roscoe Mitchell, Hanah Jon Taylor & Ben Sidran (another local), among others.

I only recall that RD and Connie Kay, the Modern Jazz Quartet's drummer brought jazz backgrounds to Astral Weeks (always & still my #1 Van album). Am I missing any other jazz players on AW?

[pb2015]

Richard Davis also played with Bruce Springsteen and Janis Ian ("At Seventeen").

Phil Woods on Steely Dan's "Dr. Wu" and Billy Joel's "Just The Way You Are"

[Reid]

Phil Woods played alto sax solos for Billy Joel and Steely Dan.

Lew Tabackin and Shelly Manne played on Waits's Small Change.

Bowie's Blackstar Ben Monder, Donny McCaslin David Live-David Sanborn

Joni Mitchell-Jaco, Wayne Shorter, Michael Brecker, Pat Metheny

James Taylor uses several jazz cats on tour

Zappa hired many jazz players. Duke, Ponty, Brecker Bros, Ernie Watts, Fowler bros

[simon moon]

Trumpet great, Kenny Wheeler played on:

Brilliant Trees, Gone to Earth, Alchemy, and Dead Bees on Cake from David Sylvian.

[ronmac]

Hendrix hired one for his band: Mitch Mitchell.

[philsunset]

Members of The Wrecking Crew-----all over the place.

[No Pride]

Sonny Rollins played on The Rolling Stones' "Waiting on a Friend."

[Dave (in MA)]

Eberhard Weber was on at least one Kate Bush release.

[Zeuhlmate]

The Rolling Stones - Darryl Jones

Bill Bruford - Kenny Wheeler

Magma - Brecker Brothers (on a US tour)

Kraan - Gerry Brown : drums

[rcarlberg]

The practice is common. Jazz players have chops but not financial success.

[iguana]

The practice is common. Jazz players have chops but not financial success.

to quote (who?), ‘jazzers play 3000 chords to three people while rockers play three chords for 3000 people’.

steven wilson > theo travis

[simon moon]

to quote (who?), ‘jazzers play 3000 chords to three people while rockers play three chords for 3000 people’.

Yeah, I've heard it before. I'm not impressed.

Another quote by H.L. Menkin, "No one has ever lost money by underestimating the intelligence of the great masses of the plain people".

The fact that rockers fill larger venues than jazz musicians, says nothing about quality.

[R_burke]

Jeff Beck - Vinnie Colaiuta
Legends - not sure who hired who, but Eric Clapton, Steve Gadd, Marcus Miller, Joe Sample and David Sanborn

[nosebone]

Bowies last band

Jack Bruce & Ginger Baker - Cream

[Trane]

Hendrix hired one for his band: Mitch Mitchell.

Jack Bruce & Ginger Baker - Cream

Wouldn't this be like citing everyone in Weather Report, Mahavishnu or RTF??

I mean Mitchell, Baker & Bruce were not hired or invited ... they were full-blown members.

[jkelman]

Wouldn't this be like citing everyone in Weather Report, Mahavishnu or RTF??

Well, not really. All three of the above groups were groups where jazz musicians (every one of them with heavy jazz backgrounds, many of them Miles Davis alum) wanted to play music that was, in their view, jazz but with rock edge, rhythms...and, especially, volume.

But they were, at their core, jazz groups, even though they weren't your granddaddy's jazz groups () because they were started by jazz musicians who simply wanted to take jazz to the next step by blending it with rock music (and other genres as well).

Groups that simply hired jazzers to play in their rock groups (even prog groups) was and is a little different. Steven Wilson, for example - who spoke about this practice in my 2012 interview - hiring Adam Holzman, a broad (turning out to be, in fact, one of the broadest I know) player who has proven himself tremendously capable in just about any context; that said, when you listen to him solo (example: "No Twilight in the Court of the Sun"), his total comfort with and background in the jazz vernacular is crystal clear.

Aside from being able to play absolutely anything Steven sends his way, Adam brings a broader language to Steven's music - as did Theo Travis and Guthrie Govan, whereas Dave Kilminster, as great as he absolutely is, comes from a more old school rock background...or, at least, that's what I hear in his playing with Steven (but he totally fits and I suspect has the background to play anything he's asked to do as well).

Jazzers are often more schooled and more versed in improvisation; while it's changing, a lot of classically trained players can read, and can have tremendous chops...but until the past 1-2 decades, improvisation was not something with which they were particularly comfortable. But even that is changing now, and in a big way.

[Trane]

Well, not really. All three of the above groups were groups where jazz musicians (every one of them with heavy jazz backgrounds, many of them Miles Davis alum) wanted to play music that was, in their view, jazz but with rock edge, rhythms...and, especially, volume.

But they were, at their core, jazz groups, even though they weren't your granddaddy's jazz groups () because they were started by jazz musicians who simply wanted to take jazz to the next step by blending it with rock music (and other genres as well).

Well, that's where I was getting at ... Bruce, Mitchell and Baker were originally jazz musicians that veered "rock" (for whatever reasons) by joining at the start a "rock group". They were at the base of the group... So my reaction was to cite the posts that mentioned them and make the analogy or counter-analogy if you wish) with RTF, WR and MO

Actually, as Bruce & Baker were saying, Cream was a jazz group, they just never told Eric .
Mitchell's case is a bit different, since the group was built around Jimi... But Jinny played with Mitch until the very end, which was not the case with Noel.