The best thing about Seconds Out is....

**Dale** · 10-01-2015

Originally Posted by yamishogun

Your Own Special Way... I don't see why most Genesis fans of the 1970s point to "Follow You, Follow Me" as the start of the end. That is a much better song than the dreck that is YOSW.

I could not disagree with you more. To this day, I rememember listening to ATTWT and thinking "Ok, not bad". Then FYFM played and I nearly puked. I was horrified. AND to top off my disgust, I remember going somewhere with my parents and the car radio was on their favorite AM station; AND THEY PLAYED FYFM!!! End of days.

**bob_32_116** · 10-01-2015

Originally Posted by Dale

I could not disagree with you more. To this day, I rememember listening to ATTWT and thinking "Ok, not bad". Then FYFM played and I nearly puked. I was horrified. AND to top off my disgust, I remember going somewhere with my parents and the car radio was on their favorite AM station; AND THEY PLAYED FYFM!!! End of days.

There you go. I like FYFM as well, in fact I like it a fair bit more than YOSW. My only criticism is that it was a poor choice for the closing track. Fade-outs are often effective, but that particular one at the end of the album leaves me feeling unsatisfied. Fade-outs are OK if the song still has some sense of closure, eg, Supper's Ready, or Afterglow.

**No Pride** · 10-01-2015

YOSW: I always liked that tune, though I agree about the instrumental in the middle; it's bland and has no apparent reason for being there. What I like best is the verses, they really conjure up the feeling of drifting at sea.

Wot Gorilla: I like it a lot! It doesn't need to be long and "go somewhere," that's not it's intent. It's a recapitulation of the melody in the big instrumental section in the middle of "One For the Vine," cleverly disguised in a different rhythmic context.

**JJ88** · 10-01-2015

I'm fine with 'Follow You Follow Me'; it's tighter than 'Your Own Special Way' and I like the low-key feel. Love the synth solo in it too!

**No Pride** · 10-01-2015

Originally Posted by JJ88

I'm fine with 'Follow You Follow Me'; it's tighter than 'Your Own Special Way' and I like the low-key feel. Love the synth solo in it too!

The pop charts agree with you, but I don't. FYFM was the beginning of the end for me.

**thos** · 10-01-2015

Originally Posted by Trane

Still no explanation about what was this Myrtle The Mermaid they played live??

I explained it a couple pages ago , I believe it is the spoken intro by Rutherford for "Your Own Special Way"

**syncopatico** · 10-01-2015

Originally Posted by thos

I explained it a couple pages ago , I believe it is the spoken intro by Rutherford for "Your Own Special Way"

It sure was! The intro would also feature "an interpretive dance"

performed by Phil (as the sailor wooing Myrtle) accompanied by a short Chester drum groove).

**JJ88** · 10-01-2015

Originally Posted by No Pride

The pop charts agree with you, but I don't. FYFM was the beginning of the end for me.

My favourite Genesis material is and always has been the 1971-7 period but I'm happy to have all their albums.

BTW, Hackett himself did 'Your Own Special Way' on that first Genesis Revisited release, with Paul Carrack on vocals. It's horrible!

**Dave (in MA)** · 10-01-2015

Does YOSW work better as a 3min song for miming on variety shows than as a 6min album track that goes on and on as needlessly as Hey Jude?

I can't remember for certain, but I think this was the first time I'd become aware of Genesis. I'd previously heard the title track to the Lamb on the radio, but didn't really pay attention to who did it.

**bob_32_116** · 10-01-2015

Thanks to this thread, "Your Own Special Way" has been my earworm for the past two days.

**yamishogun** · 10-01-2015

Originally Posted by JJ88

I'm fine with 'Follow You Follow Me'; it's tighter than 'Your Own Special Way' and I like the low-key feel. Love the synth solo in it too!

I agree with this. It is probably close to the top of bottom-end Genesis for me. I also agree with the person who said "Your Special Way" is twice as long as it needed to be.

**ProgArtist** · 10-01-2015

I think Phil did a great job filling in Peter's shoes. That said, I prefer Peter on the tunes on which he originally sang. I think his voice is more expressive and interesting. I don't get the same chills from Phil singing the "666" bit and the final climax to Supper's Ready, for instance.

Re: Robbery, Assault and Battery. Not a big fan of this song other than the incredible instrumental section. It's not because it's a comedic song as I LOVE Harold the Barrel and others.

As for Seconds Out, not being a fan of "Squonk", it starts off on the wrong foot for me, but overall it's a great album. In most cases I'd prefer the studio version, however, so I don't visit it often.

**trurl** · 10-01-2015

I like Phil's Supper's ready more than PG's. Other than that I would generally go for Peter though (like on, say, Musical Box).

**2steves** · 10-01-2015

YOSW has always been a snoozefest for me and sort of ruins Wind and W---I always skip over it---I mean any song from the Spot the Pigeon EP would have been way better. But Inside and Out would have been perfect---

**GuitarGeek** · 10-02-2015

Originally Posted by JJ88

^But nobody, including Maylam, has ever done anything with it apart from that short film. Frustrating. Of course the multi-track audio also needs to still exist as well.

There's one other 1977 thing I'd forgotten, the Jim Yukich 1977 videotape, apparently from Dallas. Again, this should have been used on that 'video box' (which I didn't bother with, the only one I did was the Gabriel box). This was briefly used in some other sources over the years, such as the 1978 BBC 'Three Dates With Genesis' and the 'Genesis A History' documentary...the bit in that documentary with Steve Hackett playing the solo of 'Firth Of Fifth' is taken from this tape.

If I'm not mistaken, the Dallas footage was put together by Showco, the company who supplied the band's lights, lasers, and PA (they did this for many other bands, too, not just Genesis). They were the company who a few years later would develop the Varilite system. Anyway, the Dallas footage, as I understand, was a demo reel of sorts, to show "how we can make your concert look awesome", or whatever. That's why during the last bit of Los Endos, it cuts to all the still shots of the lasers and such.

But you're right, that SHOULD be out officially somewhere. They do a full Firth Of Fifth (well, not including the solo piano intro, because that wasn't played by Tony after 74) and The Lamb/The Musical Box. As I recall, the first time I saw any of this footage was when MTV did a special on Genesis circa Invisible Touch, and they used the "now, now, now, now" thing from The Musical Box to demonstrate Phil's ability to "handle the screaming" (as they had just shown, I think, Tony explaining that they knew Phil could do the soft stuff but they weren't sure if he could "scream" as well as Peter did).

In the Genesis: A History program, I think the show the Firth Of Fifth bit, as Rutherford's suggesting that Steve's "strong suit...strongest suit" is his guitar playing, as if to imply he's a weak songwriter and that's why the band wasn't doing more of his songs.

**Splicer** · 10-02-2015

I also like the "Supper's Ready" on Second's Out. Very tight by this time. I especially like the instrumental part right after Phil sings "writing the lyrics of a brand new tune" far more than the album version or PG era live versions. Much more epic feel than the march tempo on Foxtrot. The only thing I prefer about PG era "Supper's Ready" is that I like to hear Phil's drum solo during "Apocalypse" section rather than with Chester. I love how Collins starts with the steady 9/8 beat and then starts building on it with fills and drum/cymbal hits until the original beat is there but just gets busy. Love it.

**Halmyre** · 10-02-2015

The rot did not set in with 'Your Own Special Way'!

It was 'More Fool Me'...

**snowsnow** · 10-02-2015

Originally Posted by 2steves

YOSW has always been a snoozefest for me and sort of ruins Wind and W---I always skip over it---I mean any song from the Spot the Pigeon EP would have been way better. But Inside and Out would have been perfect---

I agree! I've always felt a light-hearted track should follow the more serious opening 2 tracks on W&W (both of which I love) I would have dropped YOSW, Wot Gorilla and All in a Mouses's Night and added in after One for the Vine - Pigeons, Inside and Out and Match of the day and then continue the album with Blood on the Rooftops. I think that balances the serious songs with the more light-hearted material.

Well it works for me as that is the running order on my iPod!

**Rufus** · 10-02-2015

Originally Posted by Halmyre

The rot did not set in with 'Your Own Special Way'!

It was 'More Fool Me'...

Genesis wouldn't be Genesis if they didn't throw a Turkey or two onto an album!

**JJ88** · 10-02-2015

Originally Posted by GuitarGeek

In the Genesis: A History program, I think the show the Firth Of Fifth bit, as Rutherford's suggesting that Steve's "strong suit...strongest suit" is his guitar playing, as if to imply he's a weak songwriter and that's why the band wasn't doing more of his songs.

That comment has always rubbed me up the wrong way as well. Let us not forget that before Rutherford went pop-rock with the Mechanics, Hackett's solo albums of the early 80s charted higher than Rutherford's two, so there were presumably a lot of people that did like Hackett's writing.

**Trane** · 10-02-2015

Originally Posted by Dave (in MA)

Does YOSW work better as a 3min song for miming on variety shows than as a 6min album track that goes on and on as needlessly as Hey Jude?

Mmmhhh!!!... This version seems meatier than the studio version... And it's much less irritating as a 3-mins thingie... What really bothered me was that it was double the length it needed to be in W&W.

Coupled with Afterglow (another track that I find potentially "overly-poppy', but not to the point of debating over it), this TV perfoormance was of course very pop-oriented and a giood way to attract wider audience.

**ProgArtist** · 10-02-2015

Originally Posted by GuitarGeek

...They do a full Firth Of Fifth (well, not including the solo piano intro, because that wasn't played by Tony after 74)...

Why is this? Too stressful because it's so challenging? Did he mess up on it a lot before dropping it? I think the song suffers a lot from not having the piano intro, I guess because it's one of my favorite piano bits ever, and because when it returns on the synth it doesn't have the same effect from not having been established in the first place. I assume it's easier to play in the middle of the song because he's not all on his own and because it's just the right hand without the left hand accompaniment.

**No Pride** · 10-02-2015

Originally Posted by ProgArtist

Why is this? Too stressful because it's so challenging? Did he mess up on it a lot before dropping it? I think the song suffers a lot from not having the piano intro, I guess because it's one of my favorite piano bits ever, and because when it returns on the synth it doesn't have the same effect from not having been established in the first place. I assume it's easier to play in the middle of the song because he's not all on his own and because it's just the right hand without the left hand accompaniment.

Maybe he couldn't stand how it sounded on that electric piano. But I agree, the intro needs to be there.

**trurl** · 10-02-2015

It may be partly (or largely) because the RMI all on its own was pretty rinky-dink. It hardly has the grandeur of a real piano. By the time the CP70 came along they had dropped the song. And it may have been to just get to the singing.

Oops, as per the above post.